Can there be different spiritualities for lay people?

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Ok, so I know there are different spiritualities that generally associated with different religious orders, i.e Benedictine, Ignatian (Jesuit), Franciscan, etc.

But for a lay person, does it even make sense to say that they are influenced by a “unique” spirituality? I mean, yeah, there are Third Order Franciscans, but for someone who hasn’t professed any vows and is part of what I would guess is 99% of the laity, is it even possible for them (us) to have a spirituality beyond a “lay spirituality”?
 
Easter_Joey said:
Ok, so I know there are different spiritualities that generally associated with different religious orders, i.e Benedictine, Ignatian (Jesuit), Franciscan, etc.

But for a lay person, does it even make sense to say that they are influenced by a “unique” spirituality? I mean, yeah, there are Third Order Franciscans, but for someone who hasn’t professed any vows and is part of what I would guess is 99% of the laity, is it even possible for them (us) to have a spirituality beyond a “lay spirituality”?
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I strongly believe so!

I have always loved reading about St. Francis of Assisi and am inspired by how the Holy Spirit led him. I can apply his zeal about “Lady Poverty” to my life by learning detachment.

I am also very inspired by St. Therese of Lisieux, and the other Carmelite saints, and have learned a lot from them.

This had been going on for some time in my life. Then circumstances that the Lord allowed led me into the Third Order Lay Carmelites. That is where I feel at home and am challenged in my spirituality.

I see all the various orders as gifts of the Holy Spirit to benefit ourselves and the Church. We are all such different personalities and were given different gifts from the same Spirit.

My living room has a statue of St. Therese, and of St. Francis. In my framed picture of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in my kitchen, there hangs on the side of that frame, a blessed Jubilee of St. Benedict crucifix, given to me by a Benedictine Oblate.

We are all in the same parade with different uniforms! 🙂
 
My observation has been that we incorporate the spiritualties to which we’ve been exposed.

That being said, since I grew up around four historic motherhouses (Charity; Dominican; Ursuline; and Loretto), and other spiritualties (Passionist & Carmelite) to boot, I have incorporated their “messages” into my own life.

I’ve made life promises in one particular spirituality (Dominican) but have also appreciated and put into practice that which I’ve learned from many others (the aforementioned plus Salesian, Ignatian & Benedictine).

If one finds other spiritualties confusing, then stick with the one that has the most clarity for you. Discalced Carmelite writings are for everyone, and describe the workings of the soul. Salesianism is “devout humanism”. Both spiritualties are post-Reformation.

Blessings,
Cloisters
 
Easter_Joey said:
Ok, so I know there are different spiritualities that generally associated with different religious orders, i.e Benedictine, Ignatian (Jesuit), Franciscan, etc.

But for a lay person, does it even make sense to say that they are influenced by a “unique” spirituality? I mean, yeah, there are Third Order Franciscans, but for someone who hasn’t professed any vows and is part of what I would guess is 99% of the laity, is it even possible for them (us) to have a spirituality beyond a “lay spirituality”?
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I would say that everyone has their own unique “spirituality” even those who are “associated with different religious orders”.
 
Ok, but if you don’t live the life of a Carmelite in a monastery (just an example), then to what extent can you say that Carmelite spirituality is incorporated into your life? There are certainly some valuable things that various religious orders have brought the Church in terms of ideas and devotions, but just because Pope Francis spends time praying the rosary everyday doesn’t mean he has adopted Dominican spirituality. St. Therese’s little way is by no means unique to the Carmelites; the essence of what she is saying is in my estimation the same as what a number of spiritual masters have also said. St. Francis’ concern for the poor is not only for Franciscans. The Dominican concern for preaching is not only for Dominicans.

Yes, all of them might have their own unique way of expressing their concern for the poor (for Franciscans) or the importance of preaching the Gospel (for Dominicans), but that is tied up in how they are actually a part of a religious order. If I (as a lay person) say my spirituality has an Ignatian bent to it, how does that really make me different from another lay person who doesn’t? What Christian doesn’t want to do God’s will in all things? It’s a whole other thing for a Jesuit to have Ignatian spirituality since his entire manner of living is characterized by following Christ in Ignatius’ own order.
 
Belonging to a 3rd order means that you follow the spirituality of that order while remaining in your state of life. Even Pope John Paul II was a 3rd Order Discalced Carmelite.

Myself, a member of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, OCDS, it means I follow the spirituality of that order while remaining a married man in lay life.

The same is true for other 3rd orders.

That being said, a person doesn’t have to belong to a 3rd order to follow the spirituality of that order, however, they will not receive direction and support that belonging to the order will provide. As a result, a person trying to follow the spirituality of the order can misinterpret the writings and spirituality of that order.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Belonging to a 3rd order means that you follow the spirituality of that order while remaining in your state of life. Even Pope John Paul II was a 3rd Order Discalced Carmelite.

Myself, a member of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, OCDS, it means I follow the spirituality of that order while remaining a married man in lay life.

The same is true for other 3rd orders.

That being said, a person doesn’t have to belong to a 3rd order to follow the spirituality of that order, however, they will not receive direction and support that belonging to the order will provide. As a result, a person trying to follow the spirituality of the order can misinterpret the writings and spirituality of that order.

Jim
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This is why one should always have a good spiritual director as a guiding hand.👍
 
What separates Ignatian spirituality from Carmelite spirituality, or Franciscan spirituality from Redemptorist spirituality (just some examples) for someone who is a lay person? In what way is one spirituality different from the other for someone who lives a primarily secular life as a lay person? :confused:

Perhaps I should start a new thread for this?? :cool:
 
Easter_Joey said:
What separates Ignatian spirituality from Carmelite spirituality, or Franciscan spirituality from Redemptorist spirituality (just some examples) for someone who is a lay person? In what way is one spirituality different from the other for someone who lives a primarily secular life as a lay person? :confused:

Perhaps I should start a new thread for this?? :cool:
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Your personality, gifts, and temperament all influence your choice.
I recommend the book I linked…it helps to discern where your strengths, weaknesses, and needs lay.
God bless.
 
pianistclare said:
Your personality, gifts, and temperament all influence your choice.
I recommend the book I linked…it helps to discern where your strengths, weaknesses, and needs lay.
God bless.
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Ok, there are certainly a number of different reasons why I might choose a spirituality over another, but in what concrete way are certain spiritualities differentiated from each other for those who are laity? I understand how a difference exists for those in actual orders, but what about your average Catholic? :confused:
 
Some spiritualties are based more on intellectual pursuits. Deep theology, and reading of the Church fathers.
Others are more service-oriented: helping the poor, dealing with nature, and those who are more comfortable praying outdoors with the natural creation as inspiration.
Some are slanted toward the charism of teaching and learning. People who love to study Scripture by understanding the various genres of writing in the Bible.

In short, some examples are
Ignatian Spirituality
Dominican Spirituality
Franciscan Spirituality
Augustinian Sprituality

You can read about all of these with a simple Google search.
There are many more.
 
Easter_Joey said:
Ok, there are certainly a number of different reasons why I might choose a spirituality over another, but in what concrete way are certain spiritualities differentiated from each other for those who are laity? I understand how a difference exists for those in actual orders, but what about your average Catholic? :confused:
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The prayers one says, some meet in groups to attend Mass and then prayer group afterward. Some practice fasting at certain times, others simplicity in life, etc.
 
Easter_Joey said:
What separates Ignatian spirituality from Carmelite spirituality, or Franciscan spirituality from Redemptorist spirituality (just some examples) for someone who is a lay person? In what way is one spirituality different from the other for someone who lives a primarily secular life as a lay person? :confused:
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It’s called charism, or spiritual orientation.

For the Carmelites: Prayer, seeking to be Comtemplative, seeking the face of God in the heart of the world
For the Franciscans: The poor
For the Dominicans: Evangelization
For the Benedictines: ?

Since I am a Lay Carmelite, 2nd year of Formation, I know about the Carmelites. I don’t know a lot about the other religious orders.There is a lot of information online about the different charisms of each order.
 
asia53 said:
It’s called charism, or spiritual orientation.

For the Carmelites: Prayer, seeking to be Comtemplative, seeking the face of God in the heart of the world
For the Franciscans: The poor
For the Dominicans: Evangelization
For the Benedictines: ?

Since I am a Lay Carmelite, 2nd year of Formation, I know about the Carmelites. I don’t know a lot about the other religious orders.There is a lot of information online about the different charisms of each order.
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The Benedictines are extraordinary in Liturgy! Very disciplined and precise.
 
Easter_Joey said:
Ok, so I know there are different spiritualities that generally associated with different religious orders, i.e Benedictine, Ignatian (Jesuit), Franciscan, etc.

But for a lay person, does it even make sense to say that they are influenced by a “unique” spirituality? I mean, yeah, there are Third Order Franciscans, but for someone who hasn’t professed any vows and is part of what I would guess is 99% of the laity, is it even possible for them (us) to have a spirituality beyond a “lay spirituality”?
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It is impossible not to have a spirituality, except in the case of a person who is obstinate towards the duty of having a relationship with God.

A spirituality is a fitness program. It is a method of acquiring progressively greater sanctification. “Sanctification” means “to become a better version of yourself”.

Technically, every person on Earth (that isn’t obstinate to God) has their own spirituality. In more concrete terms, there are also the renowned spiritualities of major religious figures, such as Augustinian, Benedictine, Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit, Carmelite, where people follow their regimen in order to sanctify themselves. Even here, this shouldn’t be taken absolutely. There is no such thing as, say, a Franciscan that truly has an absolutely identical spirituality to St Francis, nor would an absolutely identical spirituality to St Francis even be ideal, since they are not St Francis, nor were they put on this Earth for precisely the same purpose as St Francis. God’s goal for St Anthony of Padua - who was a Franciscan - was not to create a Star Wars clone of St Francis. It was to create a more perfect St Anthony of Padua, who used the spirituality of St Francis.

So yes, if you’re a human being that is seeking to grow closer to God, by default, you have a spirituality.
 
TK421 said:
It is impossible not to have a spirituality, except in the case of a person who is obstinate towards the duty of having a relationship with God.

A spirituality is a fitness program. It is a method of acquiring progressively greater sanctification. “Sanctification” means “to become a better version of yourself”.

Technically, every person on Earth (that isn’t obstinate to God) has their own spirituality. In more concrete terms, there are also the renowned spiritualities of major religious figures, such as Augustinian, Benedictine, Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit, Carmelite, where people follow their regimen in order to sanctify themselves. Even here, this shouldn’t be taken absolutely. There is no such thing as, say, a Franciscan that truly has an absolutely identical spirituality to St Francis, nor would an absolutely identical spirituality to St Francis even be ideal, since they are not St Francis, nor were they put on this Earth for precisely the same purpose as St Francis. God’s goal for St Anthony of Padua - who was a Franciscan - was not to create a Star Wars clone of St Francis. It was to create a more perfect St Anthony of Padua, who used the spirituality of St Francis.

So yes, if you’re a human being that is seeking to grow closer to God, by default, you have a spirituality.
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While this doesn’t address what I was getting at, you do raise some valid points.
 
asia53 said:
It’s called charism, or spiritual orientation.

For the Carmelites: Prayer, seeking to be Comtemplative, seeking the face of God in the heart of the world
For the Franciscans: The poor
For the Dominicans: Evangelization
For the Benedictines: ?

Since I am a Lay Carmelite, 2nd year of Formation, I know about the Carmelites. I don’t know a lot about the other religious orders.There is a lot of information online about the different charisms of each order.
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Ok, this is what I was aiming for. So my question is, how does Carmelite spirituality in this instance differ from (say) Ignatian spirituality, if the person is a lay person who isn’t a Lay Carmelite? Ignatian spirituality (like every spirituality I would hope!) emphasizes prayer, contemplation is certainly a part of it (and probably all spiritualities to an extent), and seeking the face of God in the heart of the world sounds a lot like “finding God in all things”.

Anyone who doesn’t care for the poor isn’t living as a Catholic, nevermind Franciscan. Same for Evangelization. If anyone isn’t concerned for the liturgy, how can they call themselves Catholic (yes, Benedictines live communally centered around the Liturgy of the Hours and the Mass. Not sure how it is with Oblates)? So certainly how one lives, especially being part of a religious order (like some follow the Rule of St. Augustine), impacts one’s spirituality, yet there has to be more. FOr instance, I read the famous interview Pope Francis gave and he said one aspect of Ignatian spirituality influencing his pontificate is “discernment”. What makes that specifically Ignatian? Or even the spiritual exercises are a gift to the Church (from an Encyclical by Pius XI IIRC) and the Dominican’s rosary is as well.

I’m confused and desire clarification. :o
 
Easter_Joey said:
Ok, this is what I was aiming for. So my question is, how does Carmelite spirituality in this instance differ from (say) Ignatian spirituality, if the person is a lay person who isn’t a Lay Carmelite? Ignatian spirituality (like every spirituality I would hope!) emphasizes prayer, contemplation is certainly a part of it (and probably all spiritualities to an extent), and seeking the face of God in the heart of the world sounds a lot like “finding God in all things”. Maybe I can’t have Carmelite spirituality since I don’t live like a Carmelite 🤷.
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It might have more to do with which founder you find yourself attracted to:
St Francis
Sts Teresa and John
St Ignatius
St Augustine
St Dominic
St Benedict

All very holy people so it is natural to have some feeling for all of them.
 
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