Can third world nations afford the Pope's demands to use feeding tubes?

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Steven_Merten

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Nursing home care costs about $6000.00 per month in America. Now that the Pope has instructed third world nations that not using feeding tubes is murder, how can they sustain the cost of obedience to the Pope? Will the Pope bind the Catholic Church with mortal sin for not finantially paying for all feeding tube care for those in vegatative states in third world nations.

**ADDRESS OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS
ON "LIFE-SUSTAINING TREATMENTS AND VEGETATIVE STATE:
***SCIENTIFIC ADVANCES AND ETHICAL DILEMMAS" *****

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
I doubt that nursing home care would cost as much in a 3rd world country as it does in the US.

Furthermore, one is not obligated to provide various forms of health care if one does not in fact have the means necessary to do so. You do what you can with what you have – you can’t do anything more.

A mother is not sinning if her children go starving because she has no food to give them. Sin enters when she has enough food yet withholds it from them anyway.
 
Elizabeth B.:
What does this have to do with Third World Nations?
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Was not the Pope binding all people of the world to mortal sin murder for not using feeding tubes or just Americans?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Steven Merten:
Was not the Pope binding all people of the world to mortal sin murder for not using feeding tubes or just Americans?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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A wise man once pointed out, “A man cannot do what a man cannot do.”

There are Third World countries which cannot provide vaccines, clean water, or blood transfusions. Do they sin?

If you are lost in the wilderness and are injured in an accident, does the nearest hospital – which doesn’t know where you are, nor what treatment you need – sin by not instantly providing it?

And finally, what’s your point? That the Pope did wrong by saying there should be a standard of treatment when such treatment is available?
 
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Prometheum_x:
I doubt that nursing home care would cost as much in a 3rd world country as it does in the US.

Furthermore, one is not obligated to provide various forms of health care if one does not in fact have the means necessary to do so. You do what you can with what you have – you can’t do anything more.

A mother is not sinning if her children go starving because she has no food to give them. Sin enters when she has enough food yet withholds it from them anyway.
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I have heard that on average one billion Catholics pay less than one percent of their income to God. God commands ten percent. The Pope is in control of a vast amount of uncollected Catholic tithe money that belongs to God but is being held in individual Catholics bank accounts, big homes and SUVs. The Pope could use some fires of hell perswation, (ananthema or binding Catholics to mortal sin) up against Catholics to force them to come out with God’s full tithe in order to pay for third world nations feeding tube nursing home care. If the Pope does not do so, can it be said that he is doing all he can do to protect third world people who need feeding tubes from being murdered?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Steven Merten:
I have heard that on average one billion Catholics pay less than one percent of their income to God. God commands ten percent. The Pope is in control of a vast amount of uncollected Catholic tithe money that belongs to God but is being held in individual Catholics bank accounts, big homes and SUVs. The Pope could use some fires of hell perswation, (ananthema or binding Catholics to mortal sin) up against Catholics to force them to come out with God’s full tithe in order to pay for third world nations feeding tube nursing home care. If the Pope does not do so, can it be said that he is doing all he can do to protect third world people who need feeding tubes from being murdered?
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The church does not demand 10%. That number comes from the old testament. In general, you are suppose to give what you can. Also, the Church does not demand that all money go to the church, it can go to other organizations also. Third, the church does not strong arm money from people, especially with excommunication unless it is a serious matter, such as you are leading God’s people away from Him in the Catholic Church.

Peace,

John
 
vern humphrey:
And finally, what’s your point? That the Pope did wrong by saying there should be a standard of treatment when such treatment is available?
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Hello Vern,

Tens of millions of Americans have signed living wills indicating that they do not wish for feeding tubes if the event arises. The Pope has now bound these people to mortal sin and eternal death for doing so. I think the Pope should focus on how much eternal death he is causing when he strives to save physical life. If he wants to give his personal opion fine. I simply do not know how many eternal death bindings he can place on the flock before noone will enter into eternal life.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Steven Merten:
Tens of millions of Americans have signed living wills indicating that they do not wish for feeding tubes if the event arises. The Pope has now bound these people to mortal sin and eternal death for doing so. I think the Pope should focus on how much eternal death he is causing when he strives to save physical life. If he wants to give his personal opion fine. I simply do not know how many eternal death bindings he can place on the flock before noone will enter into eternal life.
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A living will does not automatically mean no feeding tubes. It can mean no machines making you breathe and your heart beat. Please give me any link that specifically says Tens of millions of Americans specifically have no feeding tubes in their living wills.

John
 
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yochumjy:
The church does not demand 10%. That number comes from the old testament. In general, you are suppose to give what you can. Also, the Church does not demand that all money go to the church, it can go to other organizations also. Third, the church does not strong arm money from people, especially with excommunication unless it is a serious matter, such as you are leading God’s people away from Him in the Catholic Church.

Peace,

John
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If the Church is not going to strong arm Catholics into paying to keep those in need of feeding tubes from being murdered, can the Church then back off from strong arming those who wish not to have feeding tubes for themselves. Especially those who are poor but will strive to obey the Pope’s mortal sin binding on this issue.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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yochumjy:
A living will does not automatically mean no feeding tubes. It can mean no machines making you breathe and your heart beat. Please give me any link that specifically says Tens of millions of Americans specifically have no feeding tubes in their living wills.

John
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I do not have a link. I can only specualte from talking to people who have living wills and have signed that they do not wish for feeding tubes. What about “Do Not Ressessutate”? I have seen that 90% of all those in nursing homes have spelled out DNR on their living will. Is this requesting assissted suicide or is this people simply wanting to die a natural death without artificial means being forced upon them by the Church binding such a decision as mortal sin?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Last time I checked Terri was able to breath on her own. So I guess, the argument of DNR does not apply to this case. Also, what the Pope said is that food and water are basic nutrients that sustain life and do not mean extraordinary care (such as ventillators, etc.)
 
Steven Merten:
I do not have a link. I can only specualte from talking to people who have living wills and have signed that they do not wish for feeding tubes. What about “Do Not Ressessutate”? I have seen that 90% of all those in nursing homes have spelled out DNR on their living will. Is this requesting assissted suicide or is this people simply wanting to die a natural death without artificial means being forced upon them by the Church binding such a decision as mortal sin?
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How many thousands of people did you talk to? How many of those thousands did you specifically ask about feeding tubes? Food/hydration is VERY different from your body working normally to continue living. If you have a heart attack/stroke and don’t want to be resussitated, then the body stops acting on it’s own, with no outside help. Food and water ALWAYS need to be added to the body by some mechanism, be it chewing, drinking or having a tube. Since food/water is always necessary from an external source (not brain waves that are automatically generated within the body), you can easily see that assisted suicide can be applied to the withholding of food and water, but not from withholding resussitation. See, simple.

John
 
Steven Merten:
If the Church is not going to strong arm Catholics into paying to keep those in need of feeding tubes from being murdered, can the Church then back off from strong arming those who wish not to have feeding tubes for themselves. Especially those who are poor but will strive to obey the Pope’s mortal sin binding on this issue.
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The Church is not strong-arming anyone on these issues. They are laying moral guidelines for what should be done. Notice that those who withhold feeding tubes are not strong-armed. They are being advised that the action of withholding food/water is morally wrong. God will sort it all out in the end, but the Church is here to help us not stray too far from God’s designs.

John
 
Steven Merten:
Hello Vern,

Tens of millions of Americans have signed living wills indicating that they do not wish for feeding tubes if the event arises. The Pope has now bound these people to mortal sin and eternal death for doing so. I think the Pope should focus on how much eternal death he is causing when he strives to save physical life. If he wants to give his personal opion fine. I simply do not know how many eternal death bindings he can place on the flock before noone will enter into eternal life.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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How do you get that?

The Pope has pointed out how depriving a person of nourisnment and hydration is a horrible, painful death (haveing been thirsty a time or two myself, I can attest to that.)

People who have “living wills” that stipulate no intubation ought – out of self-interest – to change them. People who have forgotten what’s in their living wills, or who don’t know about the Pope’s comments are not bound by it.
 
Steven Merten:
Was not the Pope binding all people of the world to mortal sin murder for not using feeding tubes or just Americans?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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The pope was binding those people who have access to this type of care under normal circumstances, but withold it anyway. If a mother has no food to give to her child, and the child starves to death, the mother is not culpable.
 
Steven Merten:
I have heard that on average one billion Catholics pay less than one percent of their income to God. God commands ten percent. The Pope is in control of a vast amount of uncollected Catholic tithe money that belongs to God but is being held in individual Catholics bank accounts, big homes and SUVs. The Pope could use some fires of hell perswation, (ananthema or binding Catholics to mortal sin) up against Catholics to force them to come out with God’s full tithe in order to pay for third world nations feeding tube nursing home care. If the Pope does not do so, can it be said that he is doing all he can do to protect third world people who need feeding tubes from being murdered?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
Click to expand...
Sounds like you’ve read one too many Chick pamphlets.
 
Steven Merten:
.Will the Pope bind the Catholic Church with mortal sin for not finantially paying for all feeding tube care for those in vegatative states in third world nations.
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FWIW - I have no idea why you have posted this in the News section; I should think it’s more of a moral theology question and should be posted there.

Now having said that, let me adress Mr. Merton specifically:

in another thread you asked that I provide you with the church statements on feeding and hydration. I did so. You are now attempting to “twist” that statement into some nonsensical argument you seem to be having with yourself more than anyone.

Living proof that the capabiity of reading does not always include comprehension or reasonable analysis.
 
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yochumjy:
The Church is not strong-arming anyone on these issues. They are laying moral guidelines for what should be done. Notice that those who withhold feeding tubes are not strong-armed. They are being advised that the action of withholding food/water is morally wrong. God will sort it all out in the end, but the Church is here to help us not stray too far from God’s designs.

John
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Hello John,

When was the last time you heard Pope John Paul II demand that CATHOLICS pay for some of this health care for the poor, or BURN IN HELL. He dosent harrass Catholics because that would reduce his worldly glory in thier eyes. Instead he binds up all this expense on American and world tax payers. Is it the world who goes to heaven for caring for the poor or the Church?

I am not saying that the Pope should or should not make non-use of feeding tubes mortal sin for Catholics. I would like to see him first and formost tell one billion Catholics they are fully responsible to help their third world nation people with feeding tubes, health care and food, or BURN IN HELL. All I hear is the Pope demanding what the world’s laws should be and who the World Bank should feed. He should be demanding Catholics do the work of the Lord.

There would be nothing more Christlike than the Pope strong arm CATHOLICS to pay a respectable sum of donations to the poor. I simply only hear the Pope direct his demands on American tax payers and sidestepping his own responsibility to shepard one billion Catholics do as Christ commanded them in caring for the poor or BURN IN HELL. Instead of focusing his attentions on what is mortal sin for Americans only, not third world nations, he should focus his attention on getting one billion Catholics to pick up the tab for third world nations so his demands for feeding tubes can be met by all in the world.

NAB MAT 25:41

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Peace in Christ,

Steven Merten

www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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