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fix
Guest
Steven Merten:
You may want to consider learning what the Church actually teaches.
Can third world nations afford the Pope's demands to use feeding tubes?
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Steven Merten:
So what are you saying? Are you saying that the Church has stated the elderly writing living wills not to be resussitated, which a majority of elderly in nursing homes do, is euthenasia, suicide or murder and people will suffer the consequences of mortal sin for doing so? The Church has not as far as I know. What do you know?
Yet we know that it would be a horrible act of murder not to do all you could to ressussitate a baby who fell in the swimming pool. Would not the Church agree with this?
What are you saying Vern?
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
vern humphrey:
Hello Vern,
So what are you saying? Are you saying that the Church has stated the elderly writing living wills not to be resussitated, which a majority of elderly in nursing homes do, is euthenasia, suicide or murder and people will suffer the consequences of mortal sin for doing so? The Church has not as far as I know. What do you know?
Yet we know that it would be a horrible act of murder not to do all you could to ressussitate a baby who fell in the swimming pool. Would not the Church agree with this?
What are you saying Vern?
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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Steven_Merten
Guest
4 marks:
Who goes to heaven for feeding the poor Catholics or the United States? Catholics do. Who is the shepard in charge of making sure that Catholics give donations to the poor, the president of America or the Pope?
All I see is the Pope putting out big demands on world leaders. I do not see him sheaparding the flock so the poor are cared for by Jesus’ Church through donations.
We have sixty million Catholics in the US alone. Say the average income of every Catholic man woman and child is $20,000/year. This is a low figure seeing that children and some spouces do not have income. 10% of $20,000 is $2,000. $2,000 x 60,000,000 equals $120,000,000,000. If we take the Protesatants and Jews into consideration it is probubly twice this amount. It is pretty hard to hide spending hundreds of billions of dollars in the world. Where is it? Catholic relief services? Before the tsunami I think CRS stated they collected 60 or 100 thousand a month. This is certianly not going to get us to hundreds of billions. United Way? St. Vincent De Paul? Where is it?
Unless you can somehow find some statistics where charities, Catholic and non Catholic, are paying out, hundreds of billions or even hundreds of millions. I think the Pope has failed miserably as sheapard of Christ’s flock. God bless American tax payers for doing all they do for the poor. Now let us get those in Christ’s Church who hate Jesus through not aiding the least of their brothers to put out some of the donations that Christ calls them to do. Let it be Pope John Paul II who converts to lead Christ’s Church in this direction of love for neighbor.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
Hello 4 Marks,
Who goes to heaven for feeding the poor Catholics or the United States? Catholics do. Who is the shepard in charge of making sure that Catholics give donations to the poor, the president of America or the Pope?
All I see is the Pope putting out big demands on world leaders. I do not see him sheaparding the flock so the poor are cared for by Jesus’ Church through donations.
We have sixty million Catholics in the US alone. Say the average income of every Catholic man woman and child is $20,000/year. This is a low figure seeing that children and some spouces do not have income. 10% of $20,000 is $2,000. $2,000 x 60,000,000 equals $120,000,000,000. If we take the Protesatants and Jews into consideration it is probubly twice this amount. It is pretty hard to hide spending hundreds of billions of dollars in the world. Where is it? Catholic relief services? Before the tsunami I think CRS stated they collected 60 or 100 thousand a month. This is certianly not going to get us to hundreds of billions. United Way? St. Vincent De Paul? Where is it?
Unless you can somehow find some statistics where charities, Catholic and non Catholic, are paying out, hundreds of billions or even hundreds of millions. I think the Pope has failed miserably as sheapard of Christ’s flock. God bless American tax payers for doing all they do for the poor. Now let us get those in Christ’s Church who hate Jesus through not aiding the least of their brothers to put out some of the donations that Christ calls them to do. Let it be Pope John Paul II who converts to lead Christ’s Church in this direction of love for neighbor.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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fix
Guest
Steven Merten:
What are you smoking? The Pope encourages all manner of virtuous behavior from people. If it is reform you seek I suggest you start by preaching personal holiness and conversion. If we all start living our faith better, there will be less misery in the world. It is not about numbers.
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ProdigalSun
Guest
Hello Steve,
I’m a little perplexed at your position on this thread. Can I ask are you really Catholic? Why do you have such a hard time understanding what the pope is asking of all of us? People I have read on this thread have given you direct explanation on our Holy Fathers reasoning but you ignore this and continue to spout hateful accusations and unsubtatiated facts that are little more than blatant lies! I’m having a hard time understanding where you are coming from.
Can you please direct me to any article or order from the pope that states we need to do (Whatever) or “BURN IN HELL” Please clarify this.
I will be praying for you tonight!
God Bless!
I’m a little perplexed at your position on this thread. Can I ask are you really Catholic? Why do you have such a hard time understanding what the pope is asking of all of us? People I have read on this thread have given you direct explanation on our Holy Fathers reasoning but you ignore this and continue to spout hateful accusations and unsubtatiated facts that are little more than blatant lies! I’m having a hard time understanding where you are coming from.
Can you please direct me to any article or order from the pope that states we need to do (Whatever) or “BURN IN HELL” Please clarify this.
I will be praying for you tonight!
God Bless!
G
Ghosty
Guest
You left out a major part of my statement, here in bold:
DNRs represent one of these circumstances, though there are perhaps others. I also said that, in the absence of these circumstances I am obligated to provide assistance. You’re misrepresenting my statements and setting up a strawman.
I already answered this. Feeding tubes represent ordinary care, because all people will require outside assistance in eating at some point in their lives. In fact, I could have a feeding tube installed in myself right now if I wanted to, and be perfectly healthy. CPR represents extraordinary care, because it is not a normal requirement for survival, but rather a requirement under special circumstances. The guidelines for these circumstances have been spelled out by the Church.
Interestingly enough, if you perform real CPR on a person who doesn’t need it, you will likely kill them, further indicating just how extraordinary that form of care is. Feeding tubes are simply the easiest way to feed someone who has difficulty swallowing, for whatever reason. It’s merely a means of assisting ordinary care, not a unique emergency treatment; it’s the same idea as using a bottle to feed an infant and not a glass.
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jimmy
Guest
Steven Merten:
The pope can’t control what anyone does with there bank acount. He doesn’t have the SS numbers of all Catholics in the US to go to the bank and withdraw there money.
God does not command anything, and your statistic is faulty. Most Catholics do not go to Church and do not follow the teachings of The Church so it is a flawed stat.
The pope can’t control what anyone does with there bank acount. He doesn’t have the SS numbers of all Catholics in the US to go to the bank and withdraw there money.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Prodigal Sun,
My point is that the Pope is off condemning the world for this and that when he should be reprimanding Catholics. That is his job to shepard Catholics, not the world. Yet, while the Catholics do little in comparison to their fincial capacity to do much, the Pope is off attacking America. Did Jesus or did Jesus not tell Catholics to feed and care for the poor or burn in hell? Should the Pope not be repeating this message to Catholics? Unless the Pope now agrees that it does not matter if you are Catholic or not. It is just as good to be an Amercan and go to heaven as it is to be a Catholic and go to heaven. In this case, yes, let America do the Lords work and recieve the eternal rewards for it.
NAB MAT 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Jimmy,
My point exactly. While Christ’s flock is out doing little for the poor and disobeying the Lord, the Pope is off constantly telling Caesar what to do. It is Catholics who have the promise of eternal life not Americans. Hammar the Catholics and get them back in line.
The Pope can lay down anathema or excommunication or bind Catholics to mortal sin, all of which can punsih them with eternal death. This is more power than the IRS. The Pope should be focussing on Catholics to feed the poor and obey God’s commandments. As it is I only see the Pope hammaring on Caesar. The Pope should do his job which is to get Catholics to share their wealth with God. It is only ironical that the world does more for the poor than Christ’s Church which lead by Pope John Paul II. It is sad.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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Island_Oak
Guest
While it is certainly a credible interpretation of Jesus’ words in Matthew 25 that we are obligated to help our less fortunate bretheren, and that our failure to do so has consequesnces, I firmly believe that a statement by the Pope to Catholics to the effect that they must contribute/tithe or risk damnation is at the very least counterproductive. I think the approach in 2 Corinthians 9 is perhaps more encouraging:
9:1 For it is not necessary1 for me to write you about this service2 to the saints, 9:2 because I know your eagerness to help.3 I keep boasting…about this eagerness of yours…, and your zeal to participate6 has stirred up most of them.7 9:3 But I am sending8 these brothers so that our boasting about you may not be empty in this case, so that you may be ready9 just as I kept telling them. 9:4 For if any…should come with me and find that you are not ready to give, we would be humiliated10 (not to mention you) by this confidence we had in you.11 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to urge these brothers to go to you in advance and to arrange ahead of time the generous contribution12 you had promised, so this may be ready as a generous gift13 and not as something you feel forced to do.14 9:6 My point is this: The person who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and the person who sows generously15 will also reap generously. 9:7 Each one of you should give16** just as he has decided in his heart,17 not reluctantly**18** or under compulsion,19 because God loves a cheerful giver**. 9:8 And God is able to make all grace overflow20 to you so that because you have enough21 of everything in every way at all times, you will overflow22 in every good work.
9:1 For it is not necessary1 for me to write you about this service2 to the saints, 9:2 because I know your eagerness to help.3 I keep boasting…about this eagerness of yours…, and your zeal to participate6 has stirred up most of them.7 9:3 But I am sending8 these brothers so that our boasting about you may not be empty in this case, so that you may be ready9 just as I kept telling them. 9:4 For if any…should come with me and find that you are not ready to give, we would be humiliated10 (not to mention you) by this confidence we had in you.11 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to urge these brothers to go to you in advance and to arrange ahead of time the generous contribution12 you had promised, so this may be ready as a generous gift13 and not as something you feel forced to do.14 9:6 My point is this: The person who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and the person who sows generously15 will also reap generously. 9:7 Each one of you should give16** just as he has decided in his heart,17 not reluctantly**18** or under compulsion,19 because God loves a cheerful giver**. 9:8 And God is able to make all grace overflow20 to you so that because you have enough21 of everything in every way at all times, you will overflow22 in every good work.
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jimmy
Guest
Steven Merten:
That said, I would like him put this effort into repairing the Church.
I agree that the pope has to work on the Catholics. The cafeteria Catholics are the ones that hurt the Church, not the secular society. But, I do not think the pope is wrong for his proclamations of life. I agree 100% with his stance.
That said, I would like him put this effort into repairing the Church.
J
JustSomeGuy
Guest
i can’t figure out why you all keep this going. this guy is not interested in your answers. he just want’s to perpetually rag on the Church while saying a bunch of other things that don’t make sense. he is just making one point, and everyone is failing to acknowledge it. he thinks the Church sucks. with every post, you give him the chance to say it again. it’s like he’s just sitting at his computer and sucking the life right out of you.
i just don’t get it. do any of you think you’re changing this guy? or really think you could?
help! someone please explain this to me.
i just don’t get it. do any of you think you’re changing this guy? or really think you could?
help! someone please explain this to me.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
It strikes me we need a good troll-swatter in this forum.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello JustSomeGuy,
Should we all just glorify Pope John Paul II and say everything is fine? Everything is not fine in the Church. I think this is why the Pope diverts our attention to what America is doing. So that no one will look at what he and the Church, one billion Catholics, are not doing for God and humanity in feeding the poor and obeying God’s commandments.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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JustSomeGuy
Guest
Should we all just glorify Pope John Paul II and say everything is fine? Everything is not fine in the Church. I think this is why the Pope diverts our attention to what America is doing. So that no one will look at what he and the Church, one billion Catholics, are not doing for God and humanity in feeding the poor and obeying God’s commandmentswhatever, man. whatever. how about this, you get started with all that. if one billion Catholics don’t measure up, make it 999,999,999. once i see how great of a leader you are, and how you walk the walk, i’ll be right there with you. if you’re a bigger man than the pope, then get out there and show us. if the pope’s so evil, step up in the name of Christ and get something done.
now i know you have an excuse. and i know you’re just dying to type it, but before you do, think real hard and consider real carefully how much i don’t want to hear it. then, since you just won’t be able to control yourself, here’s a suggestion: instead of wasting all that brain effort, just hit a bunch of random keys, like this:
kahga ioagihajg aioafha rioafa gjklaghi
it’s so much easier and makes the same amount of sense.
i’m sure in the real world, you’re somewhat of a nice guy. but, that’s the real world.
D
demolitionman65
Guest
A ridiculous statement. Look at Catholic Charities alone and say that the world is doing more than the Church.
And to answer the leading question: Man does what man can do. Feeding tubes are an unlikely option in the eastern bush country of Namibia. They are quite likely in Western Europe. The point, my stubborn friend, is that the Pope is saying that we need to provide food and water to as many as we can, even the terminally ill and supposedly vegetative.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello demolitionman,
Do you have some figures on how much these Charities spend? I think it is only in the tens of millions and definitely not the hundreds of billions that would come if Catholics were tithing to God.
So you believe that people should have no right to a living will to decide whether they want artificial means keeping them alive in a vegatative state? Americans presently have this right. The Pope seems to making it a mortal sin to sign such a document wishing for no feeding tubes. The Pope binding, living wills indicating that you not recieve a feeding tube, as mortal sin, condemns your soul to eternal death for signing it. Is this fair?
No doubt many in third world nations will strive hard to keep loved ones alive artificially at all cost if that is what the Pope demands. With the high cost of health care, is this not something the Church should look at and at least set up a fund and having Catholics dig deep into their pockets to tithe to help third world nations try to obey the Pope with what will be expensive health care. Or doe the Pope think it is ok to let third world nations not use feeding tubes? Is the Vatican telling third world nations this. It is easy when the Pope is just fixated on wealthy America but what about the rest of the world?
Medicine is doing some marvolous things. A recent medical journal tells that soon medicine will be able to keep people alive indefinitly. We have to come to terms with our medical accomplishments and say that it is ok to die a natural death without using artificial means at all cost to stay alive.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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ProdigalSun
Guest
Hello Steve Merten, I know what I have done and keep doing for my fellow man now how about you! Do you know! I also see what my church and the various charities it helps do also.
You are Catholic, or so you profile reads, if you are doing things to help this is a wonderful thing! Keep doing this it will catch on with the people around you. Soon those people will make a difference in other peoples lives and the ball will start to roll!
As for our great Pope, he asks the American politicians to Help Terri Shiavo, because they are in a position to do so. He sees the Culture of death that has a stanglehold over North America. He has an obligation to to push for change.
As I can read your tendacy for deceit and unsubstantiated accusations I will not be responing back to you or reading this thread so I will once again have you in my prayers while praying the Roasary tonight, so that you will not worry so much about the splinter in your brothers eye but rather will focus on the tree trunk in your own!
God Bless!
You are Catholic, or so you profile reads, if you are doing things to help this is a wonderful thing! Keep doing this it will catch on with the people around you. Soon those people will make a difference in other peoples lives and the ball will start to roll!
As for our great Pope, he asks the American politicians to Help Terri Shiavo, because they are in a position to do so. He sees the Culture of death that has a stanglehold over North America. He has an obligation to to push for change.
As I can read your tendacy for deceit and unsubstantiated accusations I will not be responing back to you or reading this thread so I will once again have you in my prayers while praying the Roasary tonight, so that you will not worry so much about the splinter in your brothers eye but rather will focus on the tree trunk in your own!
God Bless!
S
sarcophagus
Guest
Steve,
I’m a bit late in this forum…but here’s what I have to say.
You claim that if the world’s catholics contributed 10% tithe to the poor, than their problems are solved but…
adherents.com/largecom/com_romcath.html
It says that brazil has the worlds largest population of catholics followed by mexico and then the US.
If you look at this…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/br.html
80% of the population in Brazil is nominally catholic. Then scroll down and look at the poverty rate. 22% fall below the poverty line, there’s an inflation rate of 14.7%, a 12.3% unemployment rate (2003) and there is a 58% public debt.
Now look at this…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html
89% of mexico is catholic. 40% fall below the poverty line, there’s a 4.5% inflation rate, 3.3 % are unemployed and 25% are underemployed, and there public debt is at 23.1%.
Now let’s throw in Poland because is it largely catholic…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pl.html
Poland is 95% catholic. 18.4% fall below the poverty line, 0.7% inflation rate, 20% of the population is unemployed and they have a public debt of 47.4%.
Now lets compare to a wealthy country like the US…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
24% of America is Catholic. 12% fall under the poverty line, 2.3% inflation rate, a 6% unemployment rate, and 62.4% public debt.
By your standards, Catholics are responisble for aiding poor countries, but…with the examples I have given you, the most catholics live in poorer countries. How do you suggest they go about doing so. How do you suggest that the 20% of unemployed people tithe in Poland, or the 40% of mexicans that fall below the poverty line, or 22% in brazil? How do you suggest that the catholics in the wealthier country, such as the 24% in the US, cover for these people’s expenses?
I suggest you do the research. I also suggest that you listen to what the others have told you lest you be labelled a troll.
I’m a bit late in this forum…but here’s what I have to say.
You claim that if the world’s catholics contributed 10% tithe to the poor, than their problems are solved but…
adherents.com/largecom/com_romcath.html
It says that brazil has the worlds largest population of catholics followed by mexico and then the US.
If you look at this…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/br.html
80% of the population in Brazil is nominally catholic. Then scroll down and look at the poverty rate. 22% fall below the poverty line, there’s an inflation rate of 14.7%, a 12.3% unemployment rate (2003) and there is a 58% public debt.
Now look at this…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html
89% of mexico is catholic. 40% fall below the poverty line, there’s a 4.5% inflation rate, 3.3 % are unemployed and 25% are underemployed, and there public debt is at 23.1%.
Now let’s throw in Poland because is it largely catholic…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pl.html
Poland is 95% catholic. 18.4% fall below the poverty line, 0.7% inflation rate, 20% of the population is unemployed and they have a public debt of 47.4%.
Now lets compare to a wealthy country like the US…
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
24% of America is Catholic. 12% fall under the poverty line, 2.3% inflation rate, a 6% unemployment rate, and 62.4% public debt.
By your standards, Catholics are responisble for aiding poor countries, but…with the examples I have given you, the most catholics live in poorer countries. How do you suggest they go about doing so. How do you suggest that the 20% of unemployed people tithe in Poland, or the 40% of mexicans that fall below the poverty line, or 22% in brazil? How do you suggest that the catholics in the wealthier country, such as the 24% in the US, cover for these people’s expenses?
I suggest you do the research. I also suggest that you listen to what the others have told you lest you be labelled a troll.
K
kencando
Guest
Why didn’t the Pope(church) speak out against John Kerry, Ted Kennedy et al. at election time or even now? Is abortion, divorce and remarriage, embrionic stem cell research not serious matters?
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