Can This Be True?

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AngryAtheist8

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I recently came across an article online from a Catholic apologist that I found rather unbelievable. Here’s a link to the article cantuar.blogspot.com/2009/08/did-you-know-that-gluttony-has-six.html but the main argument from the text is posted below:

Did you know that the “deadly sin” of Gluttony is the proud mother of six? According to Saint Gregory the Great (Moralia, 31, 45), the capital sin of gluttony (eating and drinking too much) has “six daughters”. The daughters of gluttony are:
  1. excessive joy
  2. unseemly joy
  3. scurrility (levity in behavior)
  4. uncleanness (related to vomiting and sexual impurity)
  5. loquaciousness
  6. dullness of mind as regards the understanding
    On this topic, Saint Thomas Aquinas reminds us of this verse: “I thought in my heart to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind in wisdom” (Ecc 2:3).
P.S. A lot of people have claimed that the traditional Catholic attitude towards human sexuality is to regard it as a necessary evil (I frankly think that there is a great deal of evidence to support that argument) but this goes even further. If this stuff about the Daughters of Gluttony is true then it appears that anything but a grim (or at least deadly serious) attitude towards life is a sin (according to Catholicism anyway).
 
Saint Gregory the Great is entitle to his personal opinion, but there is no official teaching about the “daughters” of gluttony within the Catholic Church.
 
The words he used indicate that he meant behavior that is inclined to be hysterical and out of control. He is pointing out that if there is no self-control regarding one area of human behavior it is easy to become out of control in other things.

As a Catholic, one can be utterly joyful and enjoy things while not becoming objectionably and ridiculously over the top.

By the way, Definition of SCURRILITY
1
: the quality or state of being scurrilous
2
a : scurrilous or abusive language b : an offensively rude or abusive remark
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scurrility

therefore not simply levity in behavior, but objectionable. 🙂
And a person who wont’t stop speaking,

anything that is excessive,

ex·ces·sive (k-ssv)
adj.
Exceeding a normal, usual, reasonable, or proper limit.
ex·cessive·ly adv.
ex·cessive·ness n.
Synonyms: excessive, exorbitant, extravagant, immoderate, inordinate, extreme, unreasonable
These adjectives mean exceeding a normal, usual, reasonable, or proper limit. Excessive describes a quantity, amount, or degree that is more than what is justifiable, tolerable, or desirable: excessive drinking.

or unseemily
un·seem·ly (n-sml)
adj. un·seem·li·er, un·seem·li·est
  1. Not in accord with accepted standards of good taste; grossly improper. See Synonyms at improper.
  2. Not suited to the circumstances; inappropriate.
    adv.
    In an improper or inappropriate manner.
are not desirable at all!

Nor is vomiting or promiscuity,
So I really don’t think you need to be concerned by this.
Nor do the saint’s words dismiss joy and enjoyment,
bit certainly, excessive and objectionable behavior
 
Of course it can be true. Of course it is true.

But, one of course must also understand what is being said. For example, JOY is not sinful. Unseemly joy is. Unseemly joy is taking delight in committing SIN.

I suggest reading Aquinas on the topic and the bible references to which these refer.
 
It makes sense to me. You see it to a call of a life of dull and grim experience. I see it as a reminder that there is a time and place for everything. Laughing at a funeral for instance. Or being super excited that you won when there are others around who likewise have lost, ‘rubbing it in their face’ so to speak.

As to the third one, scurrility is not levity in behavior, it’s obscene or foul mouthed abuse. So I agree with that as well.

I’m not sure how anyone, religious or not, thinks 4 would be a bad concept. Walking around with vomit or semen on you in a visible way would be quite a nasty thing. As to sexual purity, the church has never kept that a secret so it should be no surprise.

Loquaciousness - extreme chattiness.

This on it’s own seems to be perfectly acceptable in our society. Yet, if we think about the consequences of this sort of behavior, it’s easy to see why it is a bad thing. When I worked in a factory wiring up fire alarms in cell towers, we had one fellow who was particular chatty. To the point where he never worked… he talked the entire time. Everything fell to the wayside for him, just so he could talk. And talk he did. With his hands in his pockets, while everyone else tried to work. Yes, this is a bad thing.

I’d think the last one speaks for itself. It’s not talking about dullness because you are ‘dull’ naturally… but the person who is too lazy to bother with sharpening his mind. Who sits around doing nothing and being nothing, and has not the time for self improvement.

So in essence, I agree with all of them. In fact, I think they are a good set of rules to look at, when looked at from the proper context. Joy and peace are ours as Christians, but that doesn’t mean that showing your joy in all situations is appropriate.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I recently came across an article online from a Catholic apologist that I found rather unbelievable. Here’s a link to the article cantuar.blogspot.com/2009/08/did-you-know-that-gluttony-has-six.html but the main argument from the text is posted below:

Did you know that the “deadly sin” of Gluttony is the proud mother of six? According to Saint Gregory the Great (Moralia, 31, 45), the capital sin of gluttony (eating and drinking too much) has “six daughters”. The daughters of gluttony are:
  1. excessive joy
  2. unseemly joy
  3. scurrility (levity in behavior)
  4. uncleanness (related to vomiting and sexual impurity)
  5. loquaciousness
  6. dullness of mind as regards the understanding
    On this topic, Saint Thomas Aquinas reminds us of this verse: “I thought in my heart to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind in wisdom” (Ecc 2:3).
P.S. A lot of people have claimed that the traditional Catholic attitude towards human sexuality is to regard it as a necessary evil (I frankly think that there is a great deal of evidence to support that argument) but this goes even further. If this stuff about the Daughters of Gluttony is true then it appears that anything but a grim (or at least deadly serious) attitude towards life is a sin (according to Catholicism anyway).
Click to expand...
Go to a New Years Eve party, watch a few individuals and you can order these 'daughters" with some certainty -

First comes 5, then 3, then 1, followed by 2, then 4 with 6 still in evidence in the morning.
 
1ke said:
It’s the kind of chattiness and immodest/untempered speech that comes from being drunk.
Click to expand...
But also from people who are entirely centered upon themselves.
And sometimes they have cell-phones, and stay on them, loudly, during the entire train, plane, or bus journey. :eek:
 
John21652 said:
Go to a New Years Eve party, watch a few individuals and you can order these 'daughters" with some certainty -

First comes 5, then 3, then 1, followed by 2, then 4 with 6 still in evidence in the morning.
Click to expand...
been there, done that.

Ain’t that the truth.
 
runningdude said:
Saint Gregory the Great is entitle to his personal opinion, but there is no official teaching about the “daughters” of gluttony within the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
I hope you’re right.
Because the other posters seem to imply that even things like chattiness and being too happy are sins. Which seems very Gnostic and ugly to me.

Of course it doesn’t concern me that much. Since I am not believer (or even a nominal Catholic). Nevertheless the idea that one of the world’s major religions regards happiness and talkativeness as sins to be actively discouraged is somewhat troubling:shrug:

This Daughters of Gluttony thing also buys into the stereotype that the more holy a person is, the more grim they are and unpleasant to be around.
 
**Unseemly joy is taking delight in committing SIN. **

oh that is not allways the case for pity sake.

Glutton, overindulgence in anything
Sloth-laziness
gossiping

being joyful is a good thing.🙂

some of this stuff is just overboard.

sometimes one needs to be a prude to be Catholic it seems, well not me.:):):)🙂
I believe in fun, life and happiness.
 
Luvtosew said:
**Unseemly joy is taking delight in committing SIN. **

oh that is not allways the case for pity sake.

Glutton, overindulgence in anything
Sloth-laziness
gossiping

being joyful is a good thing.🙂

some of this stuff is just overboard.

sometimes one needs to be a prude to be Catholic it seems, well not me.:):):)🙂
I believe in fun, life and happiness.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you understood what I wrote.
 
You are reading into Catholicism what you choose. I found atheists to be a sad and gloomy group. Catholicism is a joyful religion, designed by God to make man happy in this life and to prepare him for everlasting happiness in the life hereafter.

I was an atheist but was overcome – most unexpectedly – by grace.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
 
Eating heavily (aka stereotypical “gluttony”) redirects blood from the head to the gut. So, if one’s habitual use of food took this pattern, they would in fact experience a “dullness of understanding”. No surprise there.

ICXC NIKA
 
I believe in fun, life and happiness as well. I also agree completely with the above statement in question. I just disagree that the statement indicates that life cannot be fun, and full of happiness. I have no need for crude humor, abusive language, or drunken abandonment to have fun and enjoy life. In fact, I think our society has the wrong track on what we think is fun. The other day I read someone mention about sitcoms how that we probably wouldn’t laugh if there was no laugh track. I began to listen to what was being said on one of the shows my kids were watching, and they are right. I would never have laughed at the conversation had there been no laughter supplied telling me ‘when to laugh’.

In fact, once I started listening to what the people were saying to each other I realized they were being rude and hateful. The boy was disrespectful to his mother, and she was being self loathing. The entire show took on a new meaning to me, one in which the parent was made out to be incompetent and the child was the one who knew right from wrong. (No wonder we have so much trouble in our society.) It wasn’t long before I changed the channel, much to the chagrin of my children.
 
Luvtosew said:
**Unseemly joy is taking delight in committing SIN. **

oh that is not allways the case for pity sake.

Glutton, overindulgence in anything
Sloth-laziness
gossiping

being joyful is a good thing.🙂

some of this stuff is just overboard.

sometimes one needs to be a prude to be Catholic it seems, well not me.:):):)🙂
I believe in fun, life and happiness.
Click to expand...
Please cite the Catholic teaching that requires prudishness.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I recently came across an article online from a Catholic apologist that I found rather unbelievable. Here’s a link to the article cantuar.blogspot.com/2009/08/did-you-know-that-gluttony-has-six.html but the main argument from the text is posted below:

Did you know that the “deadly sin” of Gluttony is the proud mother of six? According to Saint Gregory the Great (Moralia, 31, 45), the capital sin of gluttony (eating and drinking too much) has “six daughters”. The daughters of gluttony are:
  1. excessive joy
  2. unseemly joy
  3. scurrility (levity in behavior)
  4. uncleanness (related to vomiting and sexual impurity)
  5. loquaciousness
  6. dullness of mind as regards the understanding
    On this topic, Saint Thomas Aquinas reminds us of this verse: “I thought in my heart to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind in wisdom” (Ecc 2:3).
P.S. A lot of people have claimed that the traditional Catholic attitude towards human sexuality is to regard it as a necessary evil (I frankly think that there is a great deal of evidence to support that argument) but this goes even further. If this stuff about the Daughters of Gluttony is true then it appears that anything but a grim (or at least deadly serious) attitude towards life is a sin (according to Catholicism anyway).
Click to expand...
The six can be the RESULT of excessive drink and/or eating.

It not an admonition against having excessive joy or levity, but behaving in unseemly ways after being UNDER THE INFLUENCE.
 
This is indeed true, which is why gluttony is considered one of the capital vices.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great.** They are called “capital” because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.**
Click to expand...
 
1ke said:
Of course it can be true. Of course it is true.

But, one of course must also understand what is being said. For example, JOY is not sinful. Unseemly joy is. Unseemly joy is taking delight in committing SIN.

I suggest reading Aquinas on the topic and the bible references to which these refer.
Click to expand...
oh did I, I’m sorry,

certaintly living a sinful life is no fun at all.

I said that-prude, as sometimes I get the impression reading some of the posts that everything is sinful, and even in some Catholic literature,

Seems to be more sins in the Catholic faith than one can shake a stick at.

all of this is my opinion of course.🙂
 
Luvtosew said:
**Unseemly joy is taking delight in committing SIN. **

oh that is not allways the case for pity sake.

Glutton, overindulgence in anything
Sloth-laziness
gossiping

being joyful is a good thing.🙂

some of this stuff is just overboard.

sometimes one needs to be a prude to be Catholic it seems, well not me.:):):)🙂

I believe in fun, life and happiness.
Click to expand...
If you read all the posts responding to the atheistic original poster, you will see that we all agree! Including 1ke.

Only the original poster was tersely sticking to his guns even though we had proved the case for joy! And shown how the saints claims and the OP, AngryAtheist8’s, interpretation of it was incorrect.
 
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