Can u date awaiting on anullment?

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Again, a discipline not to marry non-Catholics. While not often wise, it is not sinful to do so.
I agree with you on this. Also allowing a non-catholic to go thought he process of nullity with the marriage tribunal is not for the non-catholic, it is for the Catholic.

That being said, dating should still wait until one knows 100% that they are free to marry, if not then why do we look down on those who are married for dating?
 
I had posted this in the other thread that was linked in Post #3, but I will post it here again. This was the advice that I got from my priest. He has this linked to the parish web page.

What about dating a new partner after your divorce
but before the Declaration of Nullity is
finalized? This is a sensitive area. Obviously a divorced
person should socialize by starting and
maintaining friendships. That is simply the way
God made us. But how dating occurs is important.
Dating can mean different things to different
people. It can mean ordinary socializing or it can
mean socializing for the purpose of finding a marriage
partner. Obviously, some situations are
more romantically powerful than others so care
must be taken to be honest about what is being
communicated by our actions not only to our
dating partner but also to others. Obviously, the
opinions of others should not dictate our actions
but they should not be simply dismissed either.
How you approach dating friends after a divorce
demands a lot of self-honesty from both partners.
We have to honestly acknowledge that the
first bond still exists so it would not be fair to
seek a marriage partner while it remains uncertain
whether the first marriage will be discovered
to be null.


stpaschal.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=193&Itemid=182

I think answering the OP’s question with a No is good advice, but I do think it is an oversimplification as far as what is required of him to be a Catholic in good standing.

I just don’t think it is reasonable to tell a divorced person that they must live exactly as if they were still married, when clearly that is not possible since they are divorced. Getting out and socializing with persons of the same or the opposite sex is an important part of the healing process following a divorce. To have to hold relationships to the exact same scrutiny as one who is currently living a conjugal life with their spouse is a bit extreme, especially if they have worked with their pastor on their annulment, have a good understanding of their case, and have received pastoral advice on how they can proceed with their life while waiting for a decision from the Tribunal. Yes, we need a Tribunal decision before entering into a marriage commitment, but not for going out to dinner.
👍
 
“What does it mean for Psychological reasons?”

Theoretically, it is supposed to mean if someone entered into the marriage with serious psychological problems. For example, severely bi-polar, I would assume, might, and I stress might, be an impediment. However, in practice, this is often used because one or the other might suffer a bit from depression, or one claims immaturity as a reason why they were not able to freely choose marriage. My wife claims this for herself, yet she was 23 yr old when we were married, very devout in her faith, and counseled young women to have their babies at the pro-life crisis pregnancy center she worked at. You have to be mature to work in a life and death environment like that. An immature person wouldn’t last a week.

The reality is, far too many people are claiming things that should be rejected by the tribunals, but instead the tribunals by and large have become nothing more than annulment mills. If this weren’t so, we wouldn’t be seeing the vast majority that are appealed to Rome be overturned.

I’ve read where those working in the tribunals have even boasted that, given enough time and resources, they could find reason to nullify ANY marriage. God cannot be smiling on the current situation.

David
 
I agree with you on this. Also allowing a non-catholic to go thought he process of nullity with the marriage tribunal is not for the non-catholic, it is for the Catholic.

That being said, dating should still wait until one knows 100% that they are free to marry, if not then why do we look down on those who are married for dating?
I really do agree with you on this in many ways. Obviously married people shouldn’t be dating. But where I get stuck is on the presumption of validity.

In the Latin Rite it is the *couple *who minister the Sacrament (I’m not sure if it is the same in the Byzantine Rite.) If they were not capable of making the covenant, then it wasn’t made. The Tribunal is determining whether the couple was *capable *of making the vow and if they did, in fact, make it.

There is also the off-topic problem of examining for validity only after civil divorce instead of before marriage, that I have a problem with too.

In my family, we hold that my husband was actually quite amazing in his sacrifice. He was a non-Catholic who filed for nullity so he could date me! His case was considered a long-form formal case, because his former “wife” was baptized as an infant in a Protestant church.

So according to your reasoning I should have not dated this man because we were not 100% sure he was free to marry? Would he have sought out nullity for any other reason? While I don’t disagree with you in theory, the logic leads to my husband not investigating the Church. And my point relevant to the OP is that it is cases like my husband’s (non-Catholic at the time) that are clogging the system so the OP is waiting years to hear on his own case involving at least one Catholic.
 
“What does it mean for Psychological reasons?”

Theoretically, it is supposed to mean if someone entered into the marriage with serious psychological problems. For example, severely bi-polar, I would assume, might, and I stress might, be an impediment. However, in practice, this is often used because one or the other might suffer a bit from depression, or one claims immaturity as a reason why they were not able to freely choose marriage. My wife claims this for herself, yet she was 23 yr old when we were married, very devout in her faith, and counseled young women to have their babies at the pro-life crisis pregnancy center she worked at. You have to be mature to work in a life and death environment like that. An immature person wouldn’t last a week.

The reality is, far too many people are claiming things that should be rejected by the tribunals, but instead the tribunals by and large have become nothing more than annulment mills. If this weren’t so, we wouldn’t be seeing the vast majority that are appealed to Rome be overturned.

I’ve read where those working in the tribunals have even boasted that, given enough time and resources, they could find reason to nullify ANY marriage. God cannot be smiling on the current situation.

David
I have occasionally wondered what might happen if we took as similar approach to some of the other sacraments, like baptism or confirmation.

Lets say a Catholic doesn’t want his marriage annulled, but his Lutheran wife has sought annulment on grounds of lack of form - since they got married in her church.

But he claims he isn’t really Catholic because although he was baptised as an infant, his parents didn’t and never intended to raise him in a Catholic way - their intent was not correct and so the sacrament never happened.

Not likely of course and not terribly plausible, but thinking about it makes my head spin a bit.
 
I think what keeps getting overlooked here is that we are not talking about just paperwork shuffling and process. We are talking about souls. The Tribunal exists to ensure that we are not endangering our souls by entering into a mortally sinful situation. It is for the protection of God’s law with regard to marriage. It is for the good of the Church.

Every single situation is going to have its own unique set of circumstances. In the OPs case - he should never have started dating in the first place until he knew if he was free to marry. Even if he never has an intention of marrying ever again - he must presume is marriage is valid until he is informed otherwise. It is not his call to guess or assume anything, lest he put his soul or his friend’s soul in danger.

In your situation Deb - of course, there would never be any reason for him to approach the Tribunal. But you should not have been dating him in the first place if you knew he was previously married. As a Catholic you should not date someone who is possibly not fee to marry. It does not matter that he was not Catholic - marriage is God’s, not ours. We follow His law, not ours. Water under the bridge now, and all turned out fine, thank goodness.

I hope this makes sense. The Catholic Church does not have exclusive rights to “till death do you part” - that applies to all valid marriage - no matter what the person may believe or not believe.

~Liza
 
I hope this makes sense. The Catholic Church does not have exclusive rights to “till death do you part” - that applies to all valid marriage - no matter what the person may believe or not believe.

~Liza
I really see where you are coming from Liza and I won’t pretend that it was a good idea to go through what I went through. It was by far one of the most painful things I have ever gone through, that insecurity of not knowing.

Where I think I still disagree is probably off-topic since the OP is Catholic. I believe that we have gone too far with ecumenism by declaring ALL marriages valid until declared otherwise. If a couple has no concept of the exclusivity and permanence of marriage when they entered the contract why does the Church presume they made a valid marriage just because one or both of them is baptized (non-Catholic)?

Two pagans are held to a lower scrutiny than two Christians of another Christian community. They don’t have the authority to confect the Eucharist, so why do we (Catholics) hold that they can make a valid marriage covenant?

Maybe I should start a new topic. Is anyone interested in discussing it with me?
 
“What does it mean for Psychological reasons?”

Theoretically, it is supposed to mean if someone entered into the marriage with serious psychological problems. For example, severely bi-polar, I would assume, might, and I stress might, be an impediment. However, in practice, this is often used because one or the other might suffer a bit from depression, or one claims immaturity as a reason why they were not able to freely choose marriage. My wife claims this for herself, yet she was 23 yr old when we were married, very devout in her faith, and counseled young women to have their babies at the pro-life crisis pregnancy center she worked at. You have to be mature to work in a life and death environment like that. An immature person wouldn’t last a week.

The reality is, far too many people are claiming things that should be rejected by the tribunals, but instead the tribunals by and large have become nothing more than annulment mills. If this weren’t so, we wouldn’t be seeing the vast majority that are appealed to Rome be overturned.

I’ve read where those working in the tribunals have even boasted that, given enough time and resources, they could find reason to nullify ANY marriage. God cannot be smiling on the current situation.

David
Hi David,

Maybe it might help you to think about this when you are looking at those statistics:

In order for a petition to be submitted to a Tribunal in the US, there must be a divorce decree. So, right from that point, all of those marriages that are still intact are weeded out from consideration. The fact that the couples are still together or don’t feel that they have grounds to petition weed them out from going any further into the process (I know that I am stating the obvious here, but sometimes it is helpful to look at the obvious as a starting point.) The Roman Rota will never see those cases. Of the ones that submit the preliminary paperwork to Petition, some are rejected for not having sufficient grounds. I know of at least one regular CAF poster whose case was stopped at this point. So, again, those cases will never be seen by the Roman Rota. Of the cases that are accepted, only those that are brought to an appeal following the first decision are ever heard by the Rota. From what I understand, what they actually end up getting are those cases that are likely to have some merit as far as the appeal goes. So, it stands to reason that there would be a high ratio of decisions being overturned. Furthermore, from reading some of the articles at the marysadvocate.org website, it does seem like the main criticism is the overuse of canon 1095. It sounds like there are cases that could have received an affirmative decision based on a different canon which was never pursed by the American Tribunal.

I wouldn’t write off the entire US Tribunal process as being an annulment mill. The fact is that our entire society is under attack and coming apart at the seams. Personally I see artificial contraception as being behind so much of these problems. It tears apart the need to be mutually committed and encourages people to wander. There would be far less premarital and extra marital sex if people didn’t have a contraceptive mentality. Furthermore, if more people went into marriage being truly open to life, they would be far more cautious about whom they would marry. I think that there would also be less using each other as objects and more mutual respect of persons. So, just looking at this one important aspect of marriage and realizing that the majority of married couples use contraception, it is no wonder that Tribunals are having to investigate so many invalid marriages.

Your cynicism about the Tribunal process really could be causing you to not search for the truth when it comes to your marriage. It would really be good for you to put aside all of what you think you know with absolute certainty and revisit where you both were when you married, what your family backgrounds were like, and how you lived your faith after you exchanged your vows. If there were sacramental graces that were protecting your marriage, what was the series of events that led to your divorce? I hope that you can find some peace in actually searching for that answer, rather than just assuming you already know it all with certainty.
 
Here is the thread I started so I don’t take this one off-topic.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5717490#post5717490

So to restate my stance in this thread: Exclusive dating while awaiting decree of nullity is not a good idea, but not necessarily sinful. I see the perspective, but I am not convinced it is objectively a sin. But I think my stance applies to non-Catholics. I am still not convinced that a non-Catholic wedding has a very high chance of being found valid.

I have a different point of view when the marriage being investigated was a Catholic one. But I still believe that one should be able to socialize in a manner like dulcissima’s priest advised. I also believe that the time it takes to have a case heard is absolutely tragic and is the root cause of the problem.
 
Here is the thread I started so I don’t take this one off-topic.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5717490#post5717490

So to restate my stance in this thread: Exclusive dating while awaiting decree of nullity is not a good idea, but not necessarily sinful. I see the perspective, but I am not convinced it is objectively a sin. But I think my stance applies to non-Catholics. I am still not convinced that a non-Catholic wedding has a very high chance of being found valid.

I have a different point of view when the marriage being investigated was a Catholic one. But I still believe that one should be able to socialize in a manner like dulcissima’s priest advised. I also believe that the time it takes to have a case heard is absolutely tragic and is the root cause of the problem.
LittleDeb, this is important to me is my marriage valid or not and how can you prove this? i was told today civil was concidered valid? I am catholic and my husband is not, he needs to be Baptized ETC and we are living like brother and sister I was told we do not have to. How can I see the law as it stand right now? Where do I go for this information? Please contact me when you can thank you, and God Bless Love of Christ Nancy
 
LittleDeb, this is important to me is my marriage valid or not and how can you prove this? i was told today civil was concidered valid? I am catholic and my husband is not, he needs to be Baptized ETC and we are living like brother and sister I was told we do not have to. How can I see the law as it stand right now? Where do I go for this information? Please contact me when you can thank you, and God Bless Love of Christ Nancy
Your priest will have the answers you need. Every case is unique and every case needs to be investigated individually.

Baptism is not required for a marriage to be considered valid. A non-baptized person can have a valid marriage that is not Sacramental. It seems there are a lot of terms that are confusing to you. Explain your situation to your priest and he will put you on the right path to getting your marriage regularized.

I have a feeling we probably have a language barrier between us. I don’t want to cause further confusion for you.
 
Little Deb,

“Corvette Guy is presumed married. Big difference. If the Tribunal declares him not married, then he never was to begin with. He had a civil wedding and a civil divorce if his marriage is declared invalid.
That is why I hold that dating is probably not a good idea in case he actually is married, but it is not so cut and dried as a flat out no.
Since his case is in the process for nullity we have good reason to believe that there is a high probability that he in fact is not married.”

No! No you don’t have good reason to believe there is a high probability that he is not married. To think so would be to say the marriage is presumed invalid until proven otherwise.

Instead of all the opinions that are being tossed to and fro, let’s look at what the Church actually says about this.

Can. 1060 - Marriage enjoys the favour of law. Consequently, in doubt the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.

If the validity of a marriage must be upheld, then it is cut and dried and the question of whether one can date after civil divorce, but without a declaration of nullity, is a flat out no.

When you say (of Corvette Guy, but could be anyone going through nullity proceedings) if the tribunal declares him not married, then he never was to begin with, in the context of rationalizing that it is OK to date while awaiting that decision, it can only be because you presume the marriage to be invalid, in direct contradiction of Church teaching and Canon Law.

In your wedding vows, you likely promised (allowing for different options, of course) something similar to my vows, which I said, “I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad…,” and, "Take this ring as a sign of my love AND fidelity. In what way are you keeping your vows, whether you were the one who left the marriage, or were abandoned by your spouse, if you are dating while the Church teaches that you must uphold the validity until proven otherwise? Others here have even flat out said that in such a position, even kissing is not a sin. They rationalize that the Church doesn’t explicitly say that it is a sin to date while awaiting an annulment. But are we so deluded in our desire to enter another relationship before we even know if we are free to do so, that we can ignore the 6th and 9th Commandments? If one must presume the validity of the bond until proven otherwise, then being out dating/kissing, etc. is most definitely a grave sin.

Dulcissima made a comment earlier, after my initial post, saying, “Who is it that would want us to live in fear and not trust the mercy of the Church that Christ gave us?” Yes, let’s blame the messenger. God just wants us all to be happy, right? No, God wants us to be joyful, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we will be happy. Otherwise, why would he tell us to take up our cross and follow him?

David
 
Dulcissima,

“This is exactly what I am talking about when I say that so many want to heap extra burdens upon the divorced. According to this poster, not only can you not date until you have received a decision from the Tribunal, you also can’t date after you have received an affirmative decision. He would like you to believe that for the sake of your eternal soul, you must remain in fear and doubt.”

I think this is a distortion of what I said. An affirmative decision from the court of first instance is not the sam as a declaration of nullity. A court of second (or third) instance must concur with the first affirmative decision. If one receives a second affirmative decision, then a declaration of nullity is issued, and one may begin dating.

“I’m sorry, but I am a CATHOLIC and that is not what my Church teaches. Jesus gave the Church the power to bind and loose. When a second affirmative decision is reached by a US Tribunal, a Catholic can be ASSURED that their eternal soul is safe and does not have to doubt the decision of the Tribunal.”

Yes, Jesus gave the Church the power to bind and loose. That does not make every decision made by every authority figure in the Church infallible. A tribunal decision is not an infallible decision. Hence the right of the faithful to appeal a tribunal decision. You said a Catholic can be ASSURED of the safety of one’s soul after a second affirmative decision. I would not necessarily argue with that. However, I don’t know that one can be ASSURED of the validity of the declaration of nullity. Mind you, I’m not saying by dating after receiving a declaration of nullity that you are sinning. No, I’m not. What I am saying is that, if the Roman Rota overturns approximately 90% of affirmative decisions of first instance courts here in the U.S. when they are based on can. 1095 (specifically 2 & 3) “lack of discretion of judgement” and “causes of a psychological nature” in other words for “psychological reasons,” how can one be so confident that an affirmative decision of a second instance court in the U.S. isn’t just a rubber stamp of the court of first instance, and that there isn’t a grave risk of the whole U.S. tribunal system being nothing more than an annulment mill, because of course, they want to be “pastoral” and have people be “happy.” Other than wanting to be free of the first marriage so badly, so that one can enter into a future relationship and marriage, I don’t know how one can be very confident at all.

Who is it that would want us to live in fear and not trust the mercy of the Church that Christ gave us?

I read the entire article by Msgr. Burke. It is merely a criticism that the US Tribunals choose Canon 1095 more often than they should and overlook other Canons that would perhaps make stronger cases. The article in no way suggests that people with declarations of nullity from a US Tribunal should consider themselves still married.

There are numerous reasons why it is not a good idea to date until you have received a declaration of nullity; however, there is not explicit prohibition of it and in and of itself going to dinner, Mass, a concert, bowling, or Bible study with a member of the opposite sex while you are waiting for a decision from the Tribunal is not a sin. Holding hands and kissing are not sins. They can be temptations to go further than one ought, and that is why 1ke’s advice that it is not a sin but it is imprudent, sums it up well.
 
Dulcissima,

Forgot to finish my comments from your post. My apologies. You also said:

“Who is it that would want us to live in fear and not trust the mercy of the Church that Christ gave us?”

I assume you are rightly referring to Satan. I do not live in fear, nor distrust the mercy of Christ and His Church. Yet, Christ also said, “Take up your cross and follow me.” He also said, “If you love me, keep my Commandments.” He said, “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” He didn’t say that there was no yoke and no burden. That’s the cross. We don’t get to choose our cross. I certainly wouldn’t have chosen the one I now have to carry. Christ didn’t ask me if I would like to take it up, or if I would like this one. He said, “Take up your cross and follow me.”

“There are numerous reasons why it is not a good idea to date until you have received a declaration of nullity; however, there is not explicit prohibition of it and in and of itself…Holding hands and kissing are not sins.”

While there isn’t a Commandment that you will find either in Sacred Scripture or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there is a 6th and a 9th Commandment, which to break is a grave sin. I’m not going to retype this out again, but please take a look at what I wrote in post #71 to Little Deb.
 
Dulcissima,

“I just don’t think it is reasonable to tell a divorced person that they must live exactly as if they were still married, when clearly that is not possible since they are divorced.”

St. Paul would disagree. "To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
1 Cor 7:10-11

“To have to hold relationships to the exact same scrutiny as one who is currently living a conjugal life with their spouse is a bit extreme, especially if they have worked with their pastor on their annulment, have a good understanding of their case, and have received pastoral advice on how they can proceed with their life while waiting for a decision from the Tribunal.”

If a man and his wife “worked with their pastor” on using artificial contraception, have a good understanding of their case, and have received pastoral advice on how they can proceed with using artificial contraception to avoid further pregnancies, because they don’t want anymore children, would that then be OK? Would it be “a bit extreme” to have to hold to what the Church teaches regarding openness to life and the intrinsic evil of artificial contraception to the exact same scrutiny as a couple without children who long to have a child?

How is the first example any different? Being a follower of Christ IS extreme. It’s counter-cultural to what is going on in our society. Why should the Church’s teaching on marriage, including that of indissolubility, fidelity, and openness to children be otherwise?

“Yes, we need a Tribunal decision before entering into a marriage commitment, but not for going out to dinner.”

Why not be faithful to your vows until you know for certain if you are free to marry, according to Church teaching, which is Christ’s teaching, and the words of St. Paul. Feel free to go to dinner all you want with friends of the same sex and/or family members.
 
David, You make some good points and I would like to address them. Also, welcome to the forums! If you want to quote someone click the “quote button” on the bottom right corner of the post. Learning to break the quote up and answer different parts takes a little more practice but you will soon get the hang of it.

I started to address your points, but I found that I cannot address the most important ones without going severely off topic here. I opened the other thread if you would like to discuss it there. I can say this:

What I have a problem with is “wrongful imprisonment.” It is *presumed *the OP is married based on another “loose canon.” I am the one who was quoting that “marriage holds favor of law.” can. 1060. It might just *look *like a marriage, though. But if it isn’t a marriage we have all told this poor man that he just needs to continue waiting indefinitely.

If he were asking ‘should I just get married outside the Church,’ my answer would be an emphatic NO, because that is his eternal soul we are talking about. He is asking can he have a chaste relationship with someone while he waits the years it takes for the tribunal to move the gears.

If it turns out *not *to be a marriage who gives him those years of his life it took to free him, back? No one.
 
Dulcissima,

Sorry to have so many posts in a row. Not trying to dominate the conversation now, but so much to respond to after I got home from work.

“In order for a petition to be submitted to a Tribunal in the US, there must be a divorce decree.”

While I agree with you that this is what U.S. tribunals require, nowhere in Canon Law will you find such a requirement. If anything, I believe this requirement actually encourages divorce. If, as in other parts of the world, one first determined the validity of their marriage through nullity proceedings before civilly divorcing, there might be much fewer divorces. After all, speaking of statistics, while the U.S. has only 6% of the world’s Catholics, nearly 80% of the world’s annulments are granted here. That should be problematic, and it is! Forty years ago, there were approximately 600 annulments granted in the U.S. per year. Today it is over 60,000. That’s a 10,000% increase! That should also be troubling to U.S. Catholics.

“Of the ones that submit the preliminary paperwork to Petition, some are rejected for not having sufficient grounds.”

Some, but very, very few petitions are turned away. I believe I have read that approximately 90-92% of petitions received are accepted. Once accepted, I’ve read as low as 90% (if you want to call that “low”) and as high as 97% of all petitions accepted, end up with a decree of nullity. I came across this statistic:
“From 1984 to 1994 it was 97% for First Instance trials. All cases however have to have a second trial. The percentage of decisions overturned in the United States is 4/10 of 1%”

Only 4/10 of 1% of first instance affirmative decsions are reversed in the U.S. by second instance courts! And this doesn’t indicate a high likelihood of the court of second instance acting as a rubber stamp of the first instance court’s affirmative decision, how?

“Your cynicism about the Tribunal process really could be causing you to not search for the truth when it comes to your marriage. It would really be good for you to put aside all of what you think you know with absolute certainty and revisit where you both were when you married, what your family backgrounds were like, and how you lived your faith after you exchanged your vows. If there were sacramental graces that were protecting your marriage, what was the series of events that led to your divorce? I hope that you can find some peace in actually searching for that answer, rather than just assuming you already know it all with certainty.”

I appreciate your sentiments in light of the cesspool our society has become, yet I know with moral certitude that my marriage is valid. We both were devout Catholics coming into the marriage. Our faith was integral to our daily living. We never contracepted. We were open to children. We homeschooled our children out of concern that they be taught the Catholic virtues, which is not even guaranteed in many Catholic schools. Sometimes divorce happens because one or both choose to exercise free will in a sinful way. You know, Pope John Paul II, in an address to the Roman Rota, stated that through a couple’s own actions, a valid marriage can be destroyed.

And along those same lines, yet also expanding on the thought, he stated in Familiaris Consortio #83:

83 Various reasons can unfortunately lead to the often irreparable breakdown of valid marriages. These include mutual lack of understanding and the inability to enter into interpersonal relationships. Obviously, separation must be considered as a last resort, (my comment: notice, separation, not divorce) after all other reasonable attempts at reconciliation have proved vain.

Loneliness and other difficulties are often the lot of separated spouses, especially when they are the innocent parties. The ecclesial community must support such people more than ever. It must give them much respect, solidarity, understanding and practical help, so that they can preserve their fidelity even in their difficult situation; (my comment: not so they can walk away from their vows) and it must help them to cultivate the need to forgive which is inherent in Christian love, and to be ready perhaps to return to their former married life. (My comment: Where is this message of reconciliation from our priests and bishops?)

The situation is similar for people who have undergone divorce, but, being well aware that the valid marriage bond is indissoluble, refrain from becoming involved in a new union and devote themselves solely to carrying out their family duties and the responsibilities of Christian life. In such cases their example of fidelity and Christian consistency takes on particular value as a witness before the world and the Church. (YES!) Here it is even more necessary for the Church to offer continual love and assistance, without there being any obstacle to admission to the sacraments.

Both Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI have addressed the Roman Rota with their concerns about the number of marriages being declared null, and cautioning that VALID marriages can fail. Yet, failure of a marriage is not to be equated with invalidity of the marriage.
 
LittleDeb,

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “loose canon.” I hope it isn’t a derisive comment about can. 1060. It is Church law, plain and simple. Also, “wrongful imprisonment?” The parties to the marriage entered into the union. While it may take time for the investigation into the question of validity may take time, there is no wrongful imprisonment.

If it isn’t a marriage? Poor man? JMJ! I mean no disrespect, but this is wrong-headed thinking. As I’ve already shown, from Canon Law, until proven otherwise, the marriage must be presumed valid. I know it may feel compassionate to think of the poor man (or woman) who only wants to have someone special in his/her life, but it is not! This idea that surely God wants you to be happy, so this is OK, is NOT from God.

Do we have so little faith in God’s desire to give us good things (MT 7:11) that we fret that we might miss out on that “special someone,” because we choose to be faithful to Him and keep His Commandments, and thus “do it my way?” There was a comment earlier about not trusting in the mercy of the Church that Christ gave us. My question is, do we not trust in His faithfulness to those who do His will? I look around the landscape, and I’m not seeing a lot of trust in God’s faithfulness. Not just here, but all over. And not singling out anyone, as this is prevalent in our society, yes, even in the Church.

Be faithful. Be obedient to Christ’s commands. God will never be outdone in his faithfulness, love, and generosity. And if one finds themselves in the horrible situation of being civilly divorced, and one is in a valid marriage, (and I suspect a lot more damaged marriages are valid than many wish to believe) then trust that God will give you the graces of the Sacrament, yes, the Sacrament of your marriage, to sustain you and give you joy. Let Christ be your spouse as you continue to pray for your earthly spouse.
 
LittleDeb,

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “loose canon.” I hope it isn’t a derisive comment about can. 1060. It is Church law, plain and simple. Also, “wrongful imprisonment?” The parties to the marriage entered into the union. While it may take time for the investigation into the question of validity may take time, there is no wrongful imprisonment.
Loose canon is a reference to the canon 1095 which has been called the loose canon since so many annulments are based on it. My point in referencing 1060 is because of what so loosely gets called “marriage” these days that holds favor of law. But that is my point in my other thread. If you are raised to believe divorce is a favorable option you are not likely to take marriage vows very seriously.
If it isn’t a marriage? Poor man? JMJ! I mean no disrespect, but this is wrong-headed thinking. As I’ve already shown, from Canon Law, until proven otherwise, the marriage must be presumed valid. I know it may feel compassionate to think of the poor man (or woman) who only wants to have someone special in his/her life, but it is not! This idea that surely God wants you to be happy, so this is OK, is NOT from God.
Do we have so little faith in God’s desire to give us good things (MT 7:11) that we fret that we might miss out on that “special someone,” because we choose to be faithful to Him and keep His Commandments, and thus “do it my way?” There was a comment earlier about not trusting in the mercy of the Church that Christ gave us. My question is, do we not trust in His faithfulness to those who do His will? I look around the landscape, and I’m not seeing a lot of trust in God’s faithfulness. Not just here, but all over. And not singling out anyone, as this is prevalent in our society, yes, even in the Church.
You have said yourself that you agree the tribunal is fallible. So you are saying that the time it takes to rule an invalid marriage, in fact, invalid is good thing? These people only *appear *to be married because our culture has such horrible standards for what it takes to enter “legal marriage!” Why is making them wait for years not knowing if they are married or not, okay with you?
Be faithful. Be obedient to Christ’s commands. God will never be outdone in his faithfulness, love, and generosity. And if one finds themselves in the horrible situation of being civilly divorced, and one is in a valid marriage, (and I suspect a lot more damaged marriages are valid than many wish to believe) then trust that God will give you the graces of the Sacrament, yes, the Sacrament of your marriage, to sustain you and give you joy. Let Christ be your spouse as you continue to pray for your earthly spouse.
I appreciate your kind words but I am not in that state. My situation was vastly different from the OP. I was a never married Catholic whose now husband went though annulment so he could *date *me. Yes, God is good. The man that those here would have told me to let go of, is now a devout Catholic. He was not baptized when he attempted marriage at the age of 20 to a woman who was baptized Protestant as an infant but not raised in any faith. She (his former wife) had already been remarried for 5 years when he began his process for nullity. I met him when he was nearly 30. The tribunal process was his one and only stumbling block when deciding to join the Church. (“If they do *that *so badly how can I trust that the Church is who she says she is?”)

I do agree with you that the US is completely wrong to wait for civil divorce to examine for nullity. I firmly agree it is part of the problem.
 
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