Can We All Agree We Are One

[CMatt25]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

We are one in Christ.

“For He is our peace, He who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh” (Eph 2:14)

 

[wwolverine]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

We are one in Christ.

“For He is our peace, He who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh” (Eph 2:14)

Holy Bible says that God made man in His own image. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, that means we are all ONE. And I believe it.

 

[Third_Day]

We are not “fully” one in Christ. Paul told the Philippians “complete my joy by being of the same mind, have the same love, being in full accord and of one mind”

Let’s remember that the “circumcision party” or the Judaizers also believe in Christ. Did Paul say to them “let’s all agree that we are one in Christ?”. No he did not. He told the Galatians “there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ…if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be anathema”

The Council of Jerusalem had to be called to settle the issue. The Council of Trent was also called to settle the issue. Of course we have many things in common with our protestant brothers but many serious issues remain. We need to dialogue with them and bring them back so that there will be “one Lord, one faith and one baptism”. so that there will be “one fold and one shepherd”. We cannot shy away from the truth. Christ established a visible Church so that “we may no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine”

 

[Sherry_G]

Amen! Our separated brothers and sisters believe in Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior yet have succumbed to various Protestant views, those of today through no fault of their own. All that is needed is love, patience, kindness, understanding and education. So that we may all be one as Jesus intended.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

We are one in Christ.

“For He is our peace, He who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh” (Eph 2:14)

i think this pastor was referring to the issue of abortion only. we are one because we believed that this is evil. we are not one in Faith.

The Church is fighting relativism today more than ever. that is because protestants and others are trying to make people believe that there is not One Truth. they are trying to make people beleive that everybody got some truth, therefore, we all together make up the whole Truth. that is not what Jesus tought, neither did the Apostles.
their main line today is that the CC is trying to have a monopoly on the Truth.

This is one more heresy to discredit the Church Jesus built. to undermine the Church and to prevent people from entering the CC.

 

[CMatt25]

i think this pastor was referring to the issue of abortion only. we are one because we believed that this is evil. we are not one in Faith.

The Church is fighting relativism today more than ever. that is because protestants and others are trying to make people believe that there is not One Truth. they are trying to make people beleive that everybody got some truth, therefore, we all together make up the whole Truth. that is not what Jesus tought, neither did the Apostles.
their main line today is that the CC is trying to have a monopoly on the Truth.

This is one more heresy to discredit the Church Jesus built. to undermine the Church and to prevent people from entering the CC.

Actually no he was not speaking about abortion only. I’m not certain how you reach the conclusion he was not referring to faith when he said “We are one in Christ”?

Anyway in context he said, " We don’t have to agree with each other. Room is allowed for different viewpoints and perspectives on a host of issues. We believe in the freedom – and responsibility – of all of us to studiously and prayerfully reflect on scripture and come to our own conclusions. We can and should listen to and learn from each other. But we do not condemn, exclude and divide over different interpretations. The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

I do agree the CatholicChurch is fighting today more than ever. Hopefully that fight does not have the opposite effect of what may be intended, and in hindsight the fight ends up pushing folks further away. Time will tell.

To answer my question however, from some of the posts, I guess no we can’t agree that faith in Christ unites us as one.

 

[Della]

Actually no he was not speaking about abortion only. I’m not certain how you reach the conclusion he was not referring to faith when he said “We are one in Christ”?

Anyway in context he said, " We don’t have to agree with each other. Room is allowed for different viewpoints and perspectives on a host of issues. We believe in the freedom – and responsibility – of all of us to studiously and prayerfully reflect on scripture and come to our own conclusions.

I’m afraid the good man is setting himself up for a fall here. No where in Scripture does it say that the faithful are to read the Bible and come to their own conclusions. That’s a common idea amongst Protestants but it was never one envisioned by the Apostles.

We can and should listen to and learn from each other. But we do not condemn, exclude and divide over different interpretations. The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

And no one is excluding anyone. Any non-Catholics, even non-Christians, may attend Mass and the other public liturgies of the Church. They may attend our universities and study Scripture in our parishes, etc. They may even go to confession, although they will not receive absolution, marry in the Church, be Christian witnesses at baptisms, etc. What they may not do is receive the Eucharist, because they are not in communion with the Church.

I do agree the CatholicChurch is fighting today more than ever. Hopefully that fight does not have the opposite effect of what may be intended, and in hindsight the fight ends up pushing folks further away. Time will tell.

If the world rejects the truths Christ gave his Church it wouldn’t be the first time. This is a recurring theme down through history, but we are bound to tell the truth no matter the consequences. God doesn’t ask us to convince anyone, but only to be witnesses to the truth.

To answer my question however, from some of the posts, I guess no we can’t agree that faith in Christ unites us as one.

We can agree on many things. I have to point out, though that the things we agree upon are the things the Catholic Church worked out centuries ago, and decided upon in its various councils. What our separated brethren need to do is learn the history of the Church, how and why it teaches what it does. Most who actually take the time and trouble are often reconciled to the Church. Those who aren’t come away with a new respect for what they have as Protestants due to the faithfulness of the Catholic Church.

 

[peary1]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

We are one in Christ.

“For He is our peace, He who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh” (Eph 2:14)

We are NOT one in Christ. Protestants have this notion that belief in Christ is the common denominator to being “at one” with Christ. We may share in a legitimate baptism, and denominations may also share in the works and prayers of the Church, but they are still separated from the Church. We will only be ‘one’ with Christ when protestants accept the legitimacy of the Eucharist.

 

[stcalixtus]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

We are one in Christ.

“For He is our peace, He who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh” (Eph 2:14)

as you can decipher by this thread we tend to be disunited and weakened against evil…that is the great sin of Martin Luther, now look at us, so many denominations spread apart like dust in the wind.

 

[joe370]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

Hey Matt…

No doubt we as Christians are one and united regarding Jesus Christ as our one and only Savior; no doubt about that. What divides Christianity is doctrinal truth. Heck, In my own family there are 5 people and they all belong to different churches, and we are all divided on certain doctrinal points.

Matt, why do you think Jesus’ Mystical Body, the church, to which He is the head and Savior, has become so utterly fractured, since the Protestant Reformation?

 

[joe370]

Actually no he was not speaking about abortion only. I’m not certain how you reach the conclusion he was not referring to faith when he said “We are one in Christ”?

Anyway in context he said, " We don’t have to agree with each other. Room is allowed for different viewpoints and perspectives on a host of issues.

Are you saying that Christians do not have to agree with each other on things such as baptism by water vs baptism being unnecessary, taught by many churches, or the true presence in the Eucharist vs the symbolical interpretation? In both cases Jesus said that these things were critical to our salvation:

“Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.”

*“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”. John 3:5
*

Matt, what are your thoughts on the matter?

We believe in the freedom – and responsibility – of all of us to studiously and prayerfully reflect on scripture and come to our own conclusions.

That is private interpretation isn’t it, frowned upon in the bible? I know that I do not possess the final authority when it comes arbitrating/evaluating doctrinal truth!

We can and should listen to and learn from each other. But we do not condemn, exclude and divide over different interpretations. The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

It sounds like he is saying that doctrinal truth is irrelevant if it divides???

I do agree the CatholicChurch is fighting today more than ever.

Fighting with who? All Catholics here at CAF are of the same mind, doctrinally speaking! Visit a Protestant forum and sadly, you will see some real division and disunity. As a former Lutheran, those Protestant forums really confused me for the simple fact that each Protestant belonging to a different PC, brought something different to the table, doctrinally speaking of course.

Hopefully that fight does not have the opposite effect of what may be intended, and in hindsight the fight ends up pushing folks further away. Time will tell.

We do not fight with our protestant brothers and sisters; we just won’t compromise when it comes to doctrinal truth taught by the CC. I would hope all PC’s, regardless of denomination, would not compromise their doctrinal beliefs taught to them by their church leaders, if they believe those doctrinal truths with all their heart soul and mind.

To answer my question however, from some of the posts, I guess no we can’t agree that faith in Christ unites us as one.

Matt, how would that even possible when people snub their noses at church authority (other than their own church) - all the while teaching from the word of God, with authority? Jesus established just one church (Matthew 16) - and the holy spirit, as per sacred scripture, is forever guiding Jesus’ church into all truth. Even if you don’t believe that the CC is the church of Matthew 16, don’t you want to find out which church in the world today, is in fact the church of Matthew 16, forever guided by the HS into all truth as opposed to partial truths or half truths??? There was just one church for a thousand years; that church split into 2 churches, politically motivated of course, but both the east and the west basically merged, doctrinally speaking, with one or 2 exceptions, and sola scriptura (scripture alone) - as the final authority for arbitrating, evaluating and determining doctrinal truth, was absolutely unheard of by both the EOC and the CC. It wasn’t until the 16th century and the advent of a brand new doctrine/tradition called sola scriptura that division reared its ugly head.

Matt, I could start a church tomorrow, call it Joe’s reformed church, and remove all Sacraments, the Trinity, etc. etc. - basing my teachings/doctrinal truths on my singularly unique interpretation of the bible, which by the way, was never entrusted to me to begin with. Something seems terribly wrong with that idea. don’t you think? But, thanks to the 16th century man-made teaching of SS, anyone can avail themselves of the word of God and do just that.

What are your thoughts?

 

[gabrielhal]

Hi,
According to me,
I do agree the CatholicChurch is fighting today more than ever. Hopefully that fight does not have the opposite effect of what may be intended, and in hindsight the fight ends up pushing folks further away. Time will tell.

 

[Della]

Hi,
According to me,
I do agree the CatholicChurch is fighting today more than ever. Hopefully that fight does not have the opposite effect of what may be intended, and in hindsight the fight ends up pushing folks further away. Time will tell.

As a fellow Catholic I suggest you read my response to this idea in post #7.

 

[CMatt25]

So many questions. and it’s late and I have a long day ahead of me tomorrow away from CAF. And I never have understood why is it the first thing some Catholics assume is if someone doesn’t fully agree with them, the other person somehow does not understand Catholic teaching? But lets see…

Della, I know some Catholics say when Paul taught in Acts to search Scripture to see if what the people were being told is true, he was only referring to OT at the time. Christians can witness at Baptisms? 2 non-Catholics can be godparents? If you’ve read me you already know what I believe Jesus teaches in Jn 6:37.

Pearly1 and St Calixtus, obviously from the posts we don’t all believe we are one in Christ.

Joe, not so clear there weren’t differences before the 1500s. My thoughts on the meaning of eat, drink, feed on this bread? I believe. I don’t understand what you’re asking about Jn 3:5 and how it relates to us not being one. 2Pet 1:21 says no prophecy found in Scripture was the prophets’s own but was as God spoke to them thru the Holy Spirit. I agree what the prophets spoke in Scripture was from the Holy Spirit. You might say those perfectly following Catholic teaching are of same mind. But I guess it depends on your definiton of Catholic I suppose. With lines drawn in the sand I guess we shall never see total doctrinal unity, as you put it, until a heart change or He comes again. As you know lots of views on Matt 16, ECF’s. But indeed I seek the truth of God along my lifelong journey.

Anyway good night and peace and God bless us all.

 

[Darron_Steele]

I recently read these words by a Protestant pastor and his words rang so true…

The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

We are one in Christ.

“For He is our peace, He who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh” (Eph 2:14)

You have spoken truth.

The Lord said that He would build “My church” (NBV) in Matthew 16 – not My churches' and not My church and some tag-along ecclesial communities.’

The word translated “church” was used similarly about the community of followers of Pythagoras. In the ICB, Greek underlying KJV “disciples” in regards to Christians is translated “followers” instead.

Acts 2:47 examples how this was done: “the Lord added unto them day by day those that were saved” (ASV). When we become His followers, He adds us all to His ONE church.

It is not our church to decide the boundaries thereof based upon who agrees `enough’ with us. Many of us like to pretend as if we can do that, but it is the Lord’s church and He decides who is in it. When a person becomes a follower of Him, the Lord adds that Christian to His ONE church, and it is that simple.

You hit on a truth that many Christians do not want to accept: we are all in one church. We can like it or not, but it looks like you do not have a problem with it. I do not either.

 

[joe370]

Hey Matt…

Joe, not so clear there weren’t differences before the 1500s.

There were a few, such as the filique, authority, indulgences, but that’s about it. As far as things like the EOC using leaven bread or having different liturgical rites, matters not, in my opinion. Doctrinally speaking they pretty much remained united because they both embrace both sacred tradition as well as sacred scripture. Why didn’t Jesus church fracture into hundreds and hundreds of churches prior to the Protestant reformation? I believe it is because these 2 churches can trace their pedigree all the way back to the apostles in places like Antioch, Constantinople, Alexandria, etc. - when all churches were CC’s, and neither of these churches were founded by mere men, 1600 years after Pentecost, using Sola scriptura as their final authority. That, in my opinion, is the difference between the great east west schism and the Protestant reformation.

My thoughts on the meaning of eat, drink, feed on this bread? I believe. I don’t understand what you’re asking about Jn 3:5 and how it relates to us not being one.

If Christians do not have to agree with each other on things such as baptism by water vs baptism being unnecessary, taught by many churches, or the true presence in the Eucharist vs the symbolical interpretation, then why did Jesus say that these things were critical to our salvation? Can I decide that these things are not necessary even though jesus said that they were necessary? For example, Jesus said that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to live. Jesus said, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

Should we compromise on doctrinal truth for the sake unity, ignoring the differences that set us apart, again in the name of unity???

Have you ever wondered why Christianity remained one and united for 1500 years (other than the east west schism) - and in just 500 years, Jesus’ Mystical Body, the church, to which He is the Savior, utterly fractured to the point of no return? I know I did as a former Lutheran.

2Pet 1:21 says no prophecy found in Scripture was the prophets’s own but was as God spoke to them thru the Holy Spirit. I agree what the prophets spoke in Scripture was from the Holy Spirit.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter

The bible tells us that the holy spirit is forever guiding Jesus’ church into all truth, therefore Jesus’ church, the church of Matthew 16, ( I didn’t say the CC; it’s up to to decide which church in the world today, is the one church of Matthew 16) - is comprised of men carried along by the Holy Spirit - right or wrong?

You might say those perfectly following Catholic teaching are of same mind.

Well, we could say the same about any insular Protestant church. We could say: those perfectly following the evangelical Lutheran teaching are of same mind. But, is that church the church of Matthew 16, founded by God, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost, or Martin Luther?

But I guess it depends on your definiton of Catholic I suppose.

For 1600 years there was only one catholic church that split into 2 in the 11th century. I guess one could say the catholic church, small c, comprised of all denominations. But the CC existed long before these churches that comprise the one catholic church small c, so I don’t really consider the CC part of the cc. That sounded really weird. LOL…

With lines drawn in the sand I guess we shall never see total doctrinal unity, as you put it, until a heart change or He comes again.

Sadly, I agree with you Matt. Protestantism is fragmented to the point of no chance of re-unification with each other or the CC, but I really believe that the EOC and the CC might still have a chance to re-unite. I guess prayer is really our only useful weapon.

As you know lots of views on Matt 16, ECF’s. But indeed I seek the truth of God along my lifelong journey.

What are your views of Matthew 16? Did Jesus found one church or all the churches that comprise the catholic church, small c? What about the ECF’s? Matt, how do you seek the truth of God along your lifelong journey? Is it trough your church leadership and the word of God or your personal interpretation of the word of God? If you believe that the church to which you belong is the church of Matthew 16, the pillar and foundation of truth, and the house of the living God, then you are truly home. Do you believe that? If not, and the holy spirit, Who was/is critical to knowing truth, and is forever guiding the church of Matthew 16 into all truth, then perhaps, identifying the church of Matthew 16, in the world today, is a good start?

You have good night too and peace and God bless us all….

 

[Della]

Della, I know some Catholics say when Paul taught in Acts to search Scripture to see if what the people were being told is true, he was only referring to OT at the time.

Yes, that’s the case. There was a very good article on this issue in This Rock Magazine a couple years ago (still relevant, of course). A quick search ought to bring it up.

Christians can witness at Baptisms? 2 non-Catholics can be godparents? If you’ve read me you already know what I believe Jesus teaches in Jn 6:37.

Yes, they may be a Christian witness but they may not be a godparent. The Church requires at least one godparent, who must be Catholic. Any others may be Christian witnesses, although their names would not be entered as a godparent. I didn’t go into such details because we aren’t discussing that issue here. I also mentioned that non-Catholics may marry within the Church, but there are conditions that must be met in this case, too.

The point I was making is that non-Catholics aren’t excluded the way many non-Catholics seem to think. The Church is welcoming to our separated brethren in many, many ways.

 

[wisdomseeker]

**

So many questions. and it’s late and I have a long day ahead of me tomorrow away from CAF. And I never have understood why is it the first thing some Catholics assume is if someone doesn’t fully agree with them, the other person somehow does not understand Catholic teaching? But lets see…

understanding is not a requirement, obedience is.

** Della, I know some Catholics say when Paul taught in Acts to search Scripture to see if what the people were being told is true, he was only referring to OT at the time. Christians can witness at Baptisms? 2 non-Catholics can be godparents? If you’ve read me you already know what I believe Jesus teaches in Jn 6:37.**

this Passage is very misunderstood by protestants. they use this passage as if this was given them authority to to see if the CC is speaking the Truth or not. to their embarassment and shame, they must know that they are not the Jews. to the Jews was given the promise, the Word of God, and the prophets and not to protestants. the Jews were searching Scriptures and these were not ordinary men, these were learned man in Scriptures. they were searching Scriptures because the apostles were teaching all that Jesus told them to teach and the Jews were examining Scriptures and judging if what the Apostles were saying was in according to Sacred Scriptures. if anybody is authorized to search Scriptures to judge others, it woud be the CC and not protestants. to the Church was given the Word of God once Jesus started to build His Church. Protestants are confused people who think that they can just go around quoting Scriptures without any regard for the people of God, the Jews. they do not make distinction. they get Scriptures and just assumed is written to them. it is not. this is one more reason why we need the Church to guide us on how to understand Scriptures.

** Pearly1 and St Calixtus, obviously from the posts we don’t all believe we are one in Christ.

Joe, not so clear there weren’t differences before the 1500s. My thoughts on the meaning of eat, drink, feed on this bread? I believe. I don’t understand what you’re asking about Jn 3:5 and how it relates to us not being one. 2Pet 1:21 says no prophecy found in Scripture was the prophets’s own but was as God spoke to them thru the Holy Spirit. I agree what the prophets spoke in Scripture was from the Holy Spirit. You might say those perfectly following Catholic teaching are of same mind. But I guess it depends on your definiton of Catholic I suppose. With lines drawn in the sand I guess we shall never see total doctrinal unity, as you put it, until a heart change or He comes again. As you know lots of views on Matt 16, ECF’s. But indeed I seek the truth of God along my lifelong journey.**

** Anyway good night and peace and God bless us all.****

Peace.

the Truth of God is found in His Church. Obedience is the key to finding the Truth.

 

[CMatt25]

Hey Matt…There were a few, such as the filique, authority, indulgences, but that’s about it. As far as things like the EOC using leaven bread or having different liturgical rites, matters not, in my opinion. Doctrinally speaking they pretty much remained united because they both embrace both sacred tradition as well as sacred scripture. Why didn’t Jesus church fracture into hundreds and hundreds of churches prior to the Protestant reformation? I believe it is because these 2 churches can trace their pedigree all the way back to the apostles in places like Antioch, Constantinople, Alexandria, etc. - when all churches were CC’s, and neither of these churches were founded by mere men, 1600 years after Pentecost, using Sola scriptura as their final authority. That, in my opinion, is the difference between the great east west schism and the Protestant reformation.

Joe, good to see some “my opinions” in there.

**If Christians do not have to agree with each other on things such as baptism by water vs baptism being unnecessary, taught by many churches, or the true presence in the Eucharist vs the symbolical interpretation, then why did Jesus say that these things were critical to our salvation? Can I decide that these things are not necessary even though jesus said that they were necessary? For example, Jesus said that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to live. Jesus said, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God **

No you can’t say things are not necessary if Christ indeed said they were. There may be different ideas as to what Christ meant the Eucharist to mean and some might ask if the thief was baptized by water. But tons of churches baptize by water and have a Lord’s supper.

Should we compromise on doctrinal truth for the sake unity, ignoring the differences that set us apart, again in the name of unity???

I’m thinking you mean as the RCC defines doctrine. Might depend on if someone agrees with the RCC.

Have you ever wondered why Christianity remained one and united for 1500 years (other than the east west schism) - and in just 500 years, Jesus’ Mystical Body, the church, to which He is the Savior, utterly fractured to the point of no return? I know I did as a former Lutheran.

All the time. That’s why I also wonder where the RCC as an institution may have strayed. Gates will not have prevailed. Just straying perhaps needing reformed by Christ so the gates don’t prevail.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter

The bible tells us that the holy spirit is forever guiding Jesus’ church into all truth, therefore Jesus’ church, the church of Matthew 16, ( I didn’t say the CC; it’s up to to decide which church in the world today, is the one church of Matthew 16) - is comprised of men carried along by the Holy Spirit - right or wrong?

Well if you’re allowing me to define the church of Matthew 16, more or less right

Well, we could say the same about any insular Protestant church. We could say: those perfectly following the evangelical Lutheran teaching are of same mind. But, is that church the church of Matthew 16, founded by God, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost, or Martin Luther?



For 1600 years there was only one catholic church that split into 2 in the 11th century. I guess one could say the catholic church, small c, comprised of all denominations. But the CC existed long before these churches that comprise the one catholic church small c, so I don’t really consider the CC part of the cc. That sounded really weird. LOL…

Are you aware the Coptic split in the 400s?

**Sadly, I agree with you Matt. Protestantism is fragmented to the point of no chance of re-unification with each other or the CC, but I really believe that the EOC and the CC might still have a chance to re-unite. I guess prayer is really our only useful weapon. **

I’m huge on prayer too.

What are your views of Matthew 16? Did Jesus found one church or all the churches that comprise the catholic church, small c? What about the ECF’s? Matt, how do you seek the truth of God along your lifelong journey? Is it trough your church leadership and the word of God or your personal interpretation of the word of God? If you believe that the church to which you belong is the church of Matthew 16, the pillar and foundation of truth, and the house of the living God, then you are truly home. Do you believe that? If not, and the holy spirit, Who was/is critical to knowing truth, and is forever guiding the church of Matthew 16 into all truth, then perhaps, identifying the church of Matthew 16, in the world today, is a good start?

Jesus found His church. Not sure if ECF’s were infallible. I pray and study. It’s not thru my personal interpreation but as I feel led by the HS after such prayer and study. One thing I don’t presume is I have every “i” dotted and “t” crossed in fully understanding the entirety of God on my walk but neither do I presume for certain any other mortal or institution does.

You have good night too and peace and God bless us all….

 

[joe370]

What are your views of Matthew 16? Did Jesus found one church or all the churches that comprise the catholic church, small c? What about the ECF’s? Matt, how do you seek the truth of God along your lifelong journey? Is it trough your church leadership and the word of God or your personal interpretation of the word of God? If you believe that the church to which you belong is the church of Matthew 16, the pillar and foundation of truth, and the house of the living God, then you are truly home. Do you believe that? If not, and the holy spirit, Who was/is critical to knowing truth, and is forever guiding the church of Matthew 16 into all truth, then perhaps, identifying the church of Matthew 16, in the world today, is a good start?

Jesus found His church.

Agreed! Did Jesus establish all the churches that we see in the world today, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, in the 1st century (in other words, the catholic church small c, comprised of all denominations) - or did He establish just one church (assembly of believers united) - built on on the Apostles and prophets, forever guided into all truth?

Not sure if ECF’s were infallible.