Can We Get Catholics to Sing?

[Ridgerunner]

Apparently a large majority of people disagree with you, since On Eagle’s Wings has been an extremely popular hymn for over thirty years. I do notice that your first position was that its lyrics were weird and unmanly, and you’ve now retreated to the unexplained judgment that it is not “good.”

Some hymns are short and other hymns are long. No surprise; after all, some psalms are short and other psalms are long.

As to what’s “commonplace,” I hope you’re not suggesting that the messages of Scripture become strange and unusable just because modern people don’t work in vineyards, or separate wheat from chaff, or count money in talents, or snare fowl. Singing about these things is a powerful way of keeping them perpetually modern and relevant. Which part of Psalm 90, exactly, do you think no longer “makes sense” or “has relevance”?

On Eagle’s Wings covers vv. 1-12 out of the 16 verses of the psalm. That’s not a “snippet.”

One could apply the same criteria to your post, I’m sure.

I’m sorry if I panned your favorite hymn to the point that you misunderstood what I said.

“Eagles’ Wings” may be popular with music directors and the publishers, but observably, people don’t like to sing it. The thread is all about “why Catholics don’t sing”. My point is that Catholics will, indeed, sing, but the hymns are often hard to sing or are just unattractive for other reasons. I realize this is anecdotal, but in the parishes I attend, people absolutely do join in some hymns, but don’t join in others, or do only sparsely. Generally speaking, (there are some exceptions) the 1970s and early 1980s ersatz folk songs do not inspire robust congregational singing in any parish with which I am familiar. It’s time to carefully pick out those that people will actually sing and get out of the 1970s “time capsule”. There are skilled people out there who can undoubtedly write new hymns that people will sing, and there are pre-1970 hymns people will sing as well. There are even some “folk song era” hymns people will sing. But we don’t need to worship the 1970s hymns just because they’re old, any more than we need to worship Gregorian Chant or hymns written in the 19th Century.

It might be different in some places, and probably is. If your parish likes to sing “Eagles Wings”, then sing away.

And virtually all hymns I have ever heard sung are relatively short, because they have to fit within fairly limited interstices in the liturgy itself which, after all, is the point of the whole thing.

 

[Sarabande]

“Eagles’ Wings” may be popular with music directors and the publishers, but observably, people don’t like to sing it.

Oh… I don’t know if it’s a favorite amongst music directors. I’ve been around a lot…and I mean a lot… of Catholic parishes as a free-lance musician (I’ve probably sung in at least 100 parishes in just my diocese alone, not including all the churches I have sung in other diocese). I can safely say that almost all directors and musicians I work with at these parishes don’t care for this hymn or many of the “popular” ones. In real life, I never discuss my dislike of different compositions or inappropriateness of music around other musicians unless they are my friends and people who know me well. The directors are the ones who will immediately express it to me and I still will be polite and not respond in the negative. So, they do these hymns because that’s what the congregation or the priest likes or requests (if it’s a funeral or wedding).

And that is the funny thing… people do like these hymns for whatever reason, yet they often can’t sing them or can’t sing them correctly. They will depend on the cantor to sing them as a solo, especially if it is a wedding or funeral, or join in on the refrain for most of them.

 

[Warrenton]

I believe while personally present on this earth, our Lord laughed!

What did he find funny?

I think you need to attend a Charismatic Mass just so you can be exposed to the breadth of worship that is in the Church.

 

[StTommyMore]

 

[JHow]

Oh… I don’t know if it’s a favorite amongst music directors… people do like these hymns for whatever reason…

I think we need to do a poll on the subject of “Eagle’s Wings”. I have always thought that its popularity was limited to a certain (large) demographic segment (baby-boomers), but I have no scientifc evidence for this.

 

[pollycarp]

We have just an awesome choir at my church, but at benediction when the organist is not there, the priest starts the hymns a little too high, so I don’t sing.

 

[Sarabande]

I think we need to do a poll on the subject of “Eagle’s Wings”. I have always thought that its popularity was limited to a certain (large) demographic segment (baby-boomers), but I have no scientifc evidence for this.

Yes, I have no scientific evidence either. It would seem, based on what I experience, that the baby boomer generation prefer the hymns like “Eagle’s Wings” the most. This makes sense as the pieces were written during their youth. I have more than once head music directors say at funerals that in about another 20-30 years these hymns will totally be gone because much of the generation requesting them will also be gone.

Sort of like “Mother, At Your Feet is Kneeling”, which is a 1920s piece. The only time I get this request is at a funeral of a very old person in his/her 80s/90s or at a wedding where the bride would like to honor her grandmother or great-grandmother by using this piece during the presentation to the Blessed Mother. It’s becoming less and less of a request, I think because so many of them are now gone and I believe many of them have since started requesting different Marian hymns like the Schubert “Ave Maria”.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m sorry if I panned your favorite hymn to the point that you misunderstood what I said.

It’s far from my favorite hymn, but I’m pretty sure I’ve understood you just fine. You started out confused about why it had such weird imagery, like “the snare of the fowler,” thinking it it was “unmanly” and folk-hippie. Now, obviously, you’ve fallen back to the position that it is just “too hard” for poor average people to sing, never mind that average people routinely show themselves able to sing the Star-Spangled Banner, four-part chorales, and so on.

Likewise, you questioned the line “may our tears be turned into dancing,” asking “What man can possibly identify with the notion of his tears turning into dancing? It’s far too gay [sic].” But Ps. 31 (29):11 says, “Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing.” So, again, I guess King David would be a man who could identify with this notion (although revisionists have accused him of being gay . . .). I expect now you would claim that your argument was that City of God is just “bad” in a miscellaneous sense and unsingable?

It might be different in some places, and probably is. If your parish likes to sing “Eagles Wings”, then sing away.

I have never heard people have any particular difficulty singing On Eagle’s Wings, but I think you’ve hit on an important point. For whatever reason, some congregations will sing anything you put in front of them, others will sing nothing you put in front of them, and the majority seem to have tastes that run in one direction or another. The thesis that, if a congregation doesn’t like to sing one type of hymn and does like to sing another, this proves that the first type is just “bad” and the second “good,” can’t possibly be right, or else it would “prove” that in the '70s and '80s Latin hymns were bad and folk-style hymns were good.

And virtually all hymns I have ever heard sung are relatively short, because they have to fit within fairly limited interstices in the liturgy itself which, after all, is the point of the whole thing.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Many hymns run to five or six verses, and there are several places in the liturgy where a lengthy hymn may be required to cover the action: specifically, the Offertory if the collection is protracted, and Communion, especially when EMHCs are not used and the distribution is slow.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think we need to do a poll on the subject of “Eagle’s Wings”. I have always thought that its popularity was limited to a certain (large) demographic segment (baby-boomers), but I have no scientifc evidence for this.

It’s likely true, but only among SOME baby boomers, I suspect. They’re not all the same. Most probably, their popularity would be greater among urban boomers, perhaps those who were in college at the time, who were more exposed to them and their overall context at the time. Traditional hymns prevailed a lot longer in more rural areas and in “ethnic” urban areas. In some rural parishes, they went straight to a lot of what were then thought of as Protestant hymns. One parish near me was like that. In black parishes, I doubt they ever sang any of them, since the “folk music” genre was pretty much an exclusively “white” thing. While it’s only one experience, I recall going to a black Catholic church back in the day, and their repertoire was pretty much what i think of as “Black Southern Gospel”, and nothing else.

 

[TrueLight]

I think we need to do a poll on the subject of “Eagle’s Wings”. I have always thought that its popularity was limited to a certain (large) demographic segment (baby-boomers), but I have no scientifc evidence for this.

All this time you all are talking of Eagles Wings, I didn’t know what it was until I just listened to it.

I have sung this!

It’s a pretty song but I don’t think it’s good for congregational singing. Most congregations don’t get the rhythm right as it changes throughout the song.

 

[Warrenton]

The simple fact is we do not have a record that everything Jesus said and did (Jn. 21:25). The Gospels are not comprehensive biographies in the modern sense.

My question was, what did He find funny?

Are you implying that the Holy Spirit is not active in the Church? After all, that is the crux of the Charismatic movement–the gifts of the Spirit

.

I never said the Holy Ghost is not active in the Church. But that has little if anything to do with the Charismatic movement, so-called.

Regards proof, Exhibit B is the music. Fine for an evening at the pub, or a hootenany. For mass?

Nyet.

 

[StTommyMore]

My question was, what did He find funny?

.

I never said the Holy Ghost is not active in the Church. But that has little if anything to do with the Charismatic movement, so-called.

Regards proof, Exhibit B is the music. Fine for an evening at the pub, or a hootenany. For mass?

Nyet.

All I can say is what He found funny was those things than are genuinely funny and not at the expense of another. Because I cannot tell you exactly what the Lord laughed at does not mean He did not laugh. He did see fit to give humanity a sense of humor, and we are made in His image, after His likeness, are we not? And Charismatic movement is all about the Holy Spirit. to claim otherwise shows that you have not had any real exposure to the movement.

 

[Warrenton]

All I can say is what He found funny was those things than are genuinely funny and not at the expense of another

 

[TrueLight]

Yesterday I was speaking to someone after mass who was complaining about the people who were singing off key next to her.

I think this is uncharitable.

God doesn’t care if we are off key or not as long as our hearts are pure.

These are not people leading the music. This is your average parishioner singing along to the credo.

I recently attended mass where I sat next to a woman who sang along to everything (although not in a loud voice). She was off key in every song, God bless her heart. But I thought of her intentions, not her talent.

Maybe this is why Catholics are afraid to sing. Which means they don’t get better because practice does make perfect.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

In my previous parish people sang at a mass that had an organ accompaniment. It was mostly older hymns and I think people liked that. At the ‘youth mass’ there was not much singing because the cantor was showing off a bit and would choose tunes that an average person just couldn’t sing (me included).

 

[Georgia]

We had a priest who once said that participation in the Mass required singing, saying that is was not at all optional. Many could argue both ways on that point, but it stuck with me. I feel much more involved if I sing. And, no, I cannot come close to carrying a tune.

 

[Sarabande]

Yesterday I was speaking to someone after mass who was complaining about the people who were singing off key next to her.

I think this is uncharitable.

God doesn’t care if we are off key or not as long as our hearts are pure.

These are not people leading the music. This is your average parishioner singing along to the credo.

I recently attended mass where I sat next to a woman who sang along to everything (although not in a loud voice). She was off key in every song, God bless her heart. But I thought of her intentions, not her talent.

Maybe this is why Catholics are afraid to sing. Which means they don’t get better because practice does make perfect.

I agree. I don’t care how the average parishioner in the pews sound. I actually think it is a bit adorable when I hear someone next to me who can’t really sing, go at it with all his/her heart. It may not be on key, but it’s touching to see someone really love to sing. When I cantor, sometimes I’ll hear someone singing totally off-key in the congregation, and I think that’s fine. My job as a cantor is to lead the congregation in singing the hymns and mass parts and if I get them singing no matter how “bad” they are, then I’m doing my job. The other day, somebody said to me before mass that their little boy (a little over a year old) was probably going to really sing with me. I told them that’s what I want, everyone to sing. My daughter sings along all the time and she’s 20 months old.

Now, for cantors or choirs, it is definitely preferable if they sing well… at least have a pleasant voice and sings in tune. It can be very difficult to sing when you have a cantor who can’t sing or just has a horrible voice, singing over everyone else in the sound system. In my experience it causes less people to sing.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

It’s likely true, but only among SOME baby boomers, I suspect. They’re not all the same. Most probably, their popularity would be greater among urban boomers, perhaps those who were in college at the time, who were more exposed to them and their overall context at the time. Traditional hymns prevailed a lot longer in more rural areas and in “ethnic” urban areas. In some rural parishes, they went straight to a lot of what were then thought of as Protestant hymns. One parish near me was like that. In black parishes, I doubt they ever sang any of them, since the “folk music” genre was pretty much an exclusively “white” thing. While it’s only one experience, I recall going to a black Catholic church back in the day, and their repertoire was pretty much what i think of as “Black Southern Gospel”, and nothing else.

I’m an urban “boomer”, and “Eagle’s Wings” and songs like it are definitely not my favorites to sing. I usually check the copyright date(s) on the sheet music (I’m in the choir), and I get excited whenever I see something from the 1800s or earlier.

As far as getting Catholics to sing more, I think we need to get the children used to singing. When they grow up, singing will then come naturally to them.

Also, we need to use music pitched to where the average voice can reach it. When I hear a cantor struggling to hit high notes, I know there’s not much hope of the congregation joining in.

The same goes for songs overloaded with way too much syncopation. There are a couple we sing (unfortunately) that have so much syncopation that it sounds like non-stop hiccuping. Who would want to sing along with that?

 

[Knittycat]

I grew up in an LDS church. We sang three full length hymns every service, and we sang them with gusto.
One of the reasons I came back to church (albiet a different one) is I missed the music. I love holy music.
Nearly everything composed in the 20th century doesn’t strike the ‘holy’ cord in me. I find myself still missing holy music Singing modern hymn lyrics to tejano guitar and bass just doesn’t do it for me.
But, I don’t go to mass 'cuz I want to feel holy (although that is a definite advantage when it happens), I go because God told me to go.

 

[Eugenius]

A royal wedding is not the same as the sacrifice of our Lord and Saviour, which is the focus of the Mass. I tend to dislike most non-traditional music during mass, because our likes and dislikes have more to do with the popular culture that we are used to, sentimentalism and our own egos than it really does participating at mass. The Mass is an opportunity to separate ourselves from those influences and leave them at the door instead of dragging them into mass with us. Being present with the Lord is “participating,” you don’t have to do anything except be there.