Can we have a frank discussion about music in Mass?

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I’m sorry, I never meant to imply that you live a quiet life. I did say, “Sometimes some of us…”. Bu apparently I didn’t make myself clear.

I agree with you that if this is a Catholic Church, the rubrics call for a crucifix to be displayed. We are not seeing all four walls of this nave, and it’s possible that the crucifix could be displayed somewhere that is not visible in the photo posted.

I trust that you are a member of a parish where you are able to worship with all your senses. 🙂 I am fortunate that I get to play organ/piano in all kinds of parish buildings!
 
In the Byzantine and Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches, we sing a cappella. I can’t stand organs in the RCC because they drown out the singing. Drums - positively not. A harp or violin would be more appropriate in RC churches imo.
 
pnewton said:
I do not count, but I do watch, and listen. I want to know what works and what doesn’t. Someone said above that no one ever asked him what he likes. Well, some of us keep up with what the people in the parish actually want and adjust accordingly.
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Oh, I totally agree. My response was for what I thought was a PIP. Not only do I watch and listen, I use my choral members as an indicator of what the people will respond to by introducing a new song to them and see how long it takes these volunteers to pick up on and get right the rhythm and parts. If too long reviewing it or they show a dislike for the song, it’s history.
 
Oh, boy, don’t ever attend a Lutheran church, at least in the U.S., The tradition calls for the organ to not only accompany the people, but to LEAD the people in the singing, and to have the opportunity during the hymn for improvisation, which may continue for quite a few measures while the congregation stands quietly and listens (and worships).

I’m not sure I understand the history of the Catholic Mass music. I have books of choral preludes(organs) by Buxtehude, who I believe played in Catholic Churches. These choral preludes are 1-3 pages long, and introduced the congregational hymns. Quite of few of these hymns are still in the Catholic (and mainline Protestant) hymnals today, but the choral prelude is obviously not played.

So…whats the story here?! I’m kind of confused. On the one hand, we’re told that Catholics didn’t sing hymns (other than possibly a closing hymn after the Mass was concluded) during Mass. But I have choral preludes to congregational hymns! OR…perhaps those hymns were only sung by a choir? Or…perhaps Buxtehude wrote the preludes only for Lutheran church services?

??

I wish that someone at Catholic Answers would research and publish or speak about the History of Music in the Catholic Church and how it affects Catholics today (and it DOES affect Catholics today because it is our music tradition). CAF is trustworthy (I think), and so many people in the Church know about this organization–I think that this music history would be very helpful to Catholics and Protestants and perhaps help end or at least defuse the “music wars” that seem to happen in real life and online all too often.
 
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Peeps said:
But please allow me to present a different perspective that I hope you will think about.

For those of us who live overly-busy, “cluttered” lives where every day brings a new set of crises and “urgent” tasks–there is something very restful about a “clean” church with very minimal decorations, a monochromatic color scheme, and a simple design featuring straight, comforting lines.

Sometimes some of us find the ornate churches (and other buildings, including our homes) simply too distracting and busy and even off-putting.

Please don’t get me wrong–usually I absolutely love the beautiful old churches with all their stained glass and artwork and statuary and the history!

But I also love a very simple white room with a no art, plain windows, and windows that provide a view of the outdoors. I find this type of church very soothing, and it actually helps me to concentrate on God instead of getting distracted by all the beautiful things around me.

I think there is a lot of beauty in orderly lines, spaces, and light.
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I totally agree with you. Ornate churches are beautiful to look at and admire their beauty. And, some will find that this enhances their worship experience. I prefer the simplistic, "uncluttered, " monochromatic interiors of the modern church. It makes one focus more on the actions taking place in the Sanctuary, especially during the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Our crucifix is not dead center, but off to the side of the Sanctuary, as is the Tabernacle. The main focus should be on the action at the ambo and on the altar in the Sanctuary.

Visit: https://www.propstei-leipzig.de/gemeinde
 
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Music is scientifically proven to cause emotional responses in the listener and the singer, so it is a tool that can help worshipers focus.
 
BornInMarch said:
Music is scientifically proven to cause emotional responses in the listener and the singer, so it is a tool that can help worshipers focus.
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I heard that today on the radio. It also provides mental healing as well. They are finding that out more and more with people with serious illnesses.
 
The sanctuary is supposed to be an outward sign of Our worship to God. My worship is NOT whitewashed. Also a Catholic Church without a crucifix is not truly Catholic. We do not offer up an empty sacrifice at mass.

I’m sorry. But I prefer to worship in the King’s Court. Not an airport waiting room. We do serve Christ the King.
 
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And another thing. I do get very heated about this.
I left my non denominationalism because I thought the Catholic Faith would contain the ornateness, color, and tradition that I was hoping for in a place of worship. You can imagine my let down when I realized how many whitewashed churches there are in our religion.
 
NO no no. The focus should be Jesus Christ in the tabernacle. HE is to always be the center.
 
Amen. I don’t like music in Mass, either. I appreciate a good chorus, however. The music in our church is horrible, and I rebel against it by not singing along. I read prayers instead. Growing up, I remember a lot Masses without music. Today, sadly, music has been exaggerated, in this age of hyper-sensitivity and emotionalism. I find nothing wrong with a quiet, solemn Mass.
 
Again. If Catholics on this thread really prefer, there are many mega churches and protestant churches that fit the need of plainess in thier sanctuaries. I just really am having a hard time understanding.

I have finally decided. I am going to try to look into becoming a Byzantine Catholic. Because I need to worship as Our Church Fathers did.
 
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Perhaps, but an argument can be made for humble churches too.

You say you want to worship in the King’s Court, but what about the Carpenter’s Court? Or the Condemned’s Court? God’s crown isn’t made of gold, it’s made of thorns.
 
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First, in an earlier post, I said, “I agree with you that if this is a Catholic Church, the rubrics call for a crucifix to be displayed.”

So I’m not sure why you are taking me to task about the crucifix. I AGREE with you–a Catholic Church should have a crucifix that is visible to the congregation in the nave.

Second, there is no need to say, “I’m sorry” because you prefer to worship in the King’s Court. Perhaps you think I am trying to argue that churches need to be “whitewashed” as you say. I am not arguing for one or another!

I simply said that sometimes, due to a complicated and stressful life, I really need simplicity in the decor. This is a style of decorating that many people prefer–I believe that many Asians especially appreciate the beauty of a single flower or the rays of the sun streaming through a window. (I am not Asian, by the way, but I do like this style.)

It is NOT anti-Catholic or even anti-tradition to prefer a simple church design. The Cathedral in our diocese has beautiful stain-glass windows depicting the Mysteries of the Rosary (minus the Luminous Mysteries because it was built before Saint Pope John Paul II). But the rest of the interior is fairly simple–green and white marble, very simple lines and the Stations are very plain. I personally find it kind of cold (marble, to me, is very cold). But I know many older Catholics who love our Cathedral and say that it is the perfect mix of beauty and simplicity. I can see their point.

No one is arguing with your personal worship space preferences. We respect your preferences, and I wish that rather than using deprecating language (e.g., “airport waiting room”) you would respect the worship preferences of other Catholics, and Protestants, too.

And there is no need to imply that those who love simplicity of design should leave the Catholic Church and head for the Protestant megachurches. Goodness gracious, Just because someone has a preference for less “stuff” doesn’t mean that they should leave the True Church and attend Protestant worship services! The Catholic Church does not insist that churches have a certain architecture or design–there is a lot of artistic freedom in the Catholic Church.

BTW, not all Protestant naves are plain. Oh, no, not at all! I’ve been in plenty of highly-ornate Protestant naves, especially the old German Lutheran churches.

One more comment–a lot of the “country” churches in fly-over country in the U.S. are quite plain, although many do have beautiful murals and pretty windows. I live in the Midwest and I’ve visited a lot of the rural Catholic churches, and they vary in their decor. It’s hard for a small parish out in blizzard country to maintain a “palace,” although some do. My point is that simplicity of design is NOT anti-Catholic. It may not be your cup of tea, but it’s not fair to knock other Catholics who don’t mind simplicity.
 
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I don’t understand this.

Rebellion is not helpful. In fact, rebellion is a mindset that can lead to division (e.g., Martin Luther).

Do you think that when you refuse to sing along but instead, read prayers, that Father or the music minister sees you and thinks, “Oh, my, we really should re-evaluate our Mass music and make some necessary changes ASAP so that HorstVeckner can stop hating the music and being frustrated to the point where they have to read prayers instead of listening to the singing with joy.”

How about speaking up and advocating for some real change instead of just suffering in silence and possibly causing someone else to stumble because you are obviously (visibly) opting out of a part of the Mass that is meant for congregational participation?

Rebellion, especially when it is visible, has a tendency to catch weaker people up in its allure–please think about young people, especially teenagers, who are looking for an excuse to opt out of Mass. Or weaker adult Catholics who already have bones to pick with the Catholic Church over various teachings or events–seeing someone in rebellion during the actual Mass might make them feel as though THEY can rebel, too, possibly even to the point of walking away from the Church.

Don’t put up any stumbling blocks. If you believe your parish is putting up stumbling blocks for you, then DO something about it rather than just staging your own 1-person protest rally. (You can tell that I was a young teen during the 1960s in the U.S.!)

How about meeting with Father and the music minister and asking them to please consider making some change in the Mass music? Why not discuss with them why you believe that the music has been "exaggerated, and why you believe that “hyper-sensitivity and emotionalism” are detrimental to true worship.

Perhaps Father would agree that at least one of your parish Masses should include quiet, solemn music–be prepared to give him some examples of hymns and instrumental music that you consider quiet and solemn so that music minister knows what you are talking about.

I can certainly understand why many Catholics would prefer a quieter Mass with more contemplative music. IMO, this goes along with a simpler decor and architecture–the quiet is preferable to many who have a stress-filled, overly-busy, too-loud life. If you approach Father with this viewpoint, he might be more open to making changes in the Mass music in at least one of the Masses.

Wouldn’t that be lovely and much more helpful than rebellion?
 
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MiserereMei25 said:
NO no no. The focus should be Jesus Christ in the tabernacle. HE is to always be the center.
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Wrong, wrong, wrong. The main focus is the altar where the great mystery of our faith in the Eucharist takes place. That is why Lectors bow to the altar and not the tabernacle during Mass and some churches have their tabernacle off to the side of the sanctuary.
 
Last (Saturday) Mass the organist was absent so very little singing
It Was Wonderful!!!
Quiet and prayerful Mass

Dante
 
So you think Jesus should not be at the center, just his table and he should be thrown to the side. I’m not understanding this concept. It heavily disturbed me the first time I went to a parish like this. In fact I have been to couple, and my fellow Catholic, these are the parishes where I have experienced loud sanctuaries, no stations of the Cross, no bowing at the altar, ect.
 
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MiserereMei25 said:
I’m sorry. But I prefer to worship in the King’s Court. Not an airport waiting room. We do serve Christ the King.
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The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is always in the King’s Court whether the architecture is to your tastes, the tastes of another, or on the back of a Jeep.

You have a right to your own opinion, and your own tastes, but you have zero right to judge that of others and call it “whitewashed.”

It is ironic that Cardinal Ratzinger used a similar image of whitewash over a fresco, but in his image, the fresco was the essence of the Mass, and the whitewash was the ornate stuff that hid it.
 
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