Can we have a frank discussion about music in Mass?

[MiserereMei25]

Unfortunately, The purpose of Sacred art is supposed to be a physical representation of heaven. And to be quite frank, many modern parishes lack that.

Like what is this??? (There is a parish in our diocese with something very similar) Except the one in our diocese doesn’t even have a face… So this one is better.

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[MiserereMei25]

I will say. I HAVE to admit there are a few modern churches that do have a sense of peace and reverence to them like this:
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[andderson]

The type of music is totally up to the pastor. Our former pastor, a Jesuit, gave us “free reign” when it came to what songs were played at mass. Sometimes, he would request a special song and we would gladly sing it. Our new pastor has his own ideas about music and tends to micromanage everything. Even some music in our hymnals did not meet his liturgical standards. Needless to say, several musicians have left the various choirs, myself included, to play music at other parishes. we are not trained musicians and cannot read music well enough for chants he requested. We are all volunteers.

 

[Hope1960]

That style is not my usual taste but I really like this.

 

[pnewton]

Needless to say, several musicians have left the various choirs, myself included, to play music at other parishes. we are not trained musicians and cannot read music well enough for chants he requested. We are all volunteers.

I sympathize. I made it clear from the onset that I would do anything asked, if I could, but there was a whole lot I can’t do.

 

[rondirect]

So you think Jesus should not be at the center, just his table and he should be thrown to the side. I’m not understanding this concept. It heavily disturbed me the first time I went to a parish like this. In fact I have been to couple, and my fellow Catholic, these are the parishes where I have experienced loud sanctuaries, no stations of the Cross, no bowing at the altar, ect.

No, I did not say that Jesus should be “thrown to the side.” Read the documents and scholar explanations! Excerpt:

"The tabernacle “should be placed in a part of the Church that is prominent, conspicuous, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer” (Canon 938).

Here is where some confusion emerges. To promote prayer and devotion, the Instruction stated, “It is therefore recommended that, as far as possible, the tabernacle be placed in a chapel distinct from the middle or central part of the church, above all in those churches where marriages and funerals take place frequently, and in places which are much visited for their artistic or historical treasures” (#53). For example, at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City, which has a constant flow of tourists, the Blessed Sacrament is reserved in Our Lady’s Chapel located behind the main altar; this beautiful chapel provides a quiet place for the faithful to pray without the distraction of the comings and goings of people. A similar situation exists at the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Washington."

Physical placement of the place of repose for consecrated hosts is not our main focus during Mass. It is at the Ambo during the Liturgy of the Word and the altar where the priest consecrates bread to the real presence of Christ and wine into the real presence of His blood. THAT is the mystery we believe in and is our main focus during Mass, not the tabernacle. Movement during Mass is a bow to the altar, not the tabernacle. Does the priest during procession kiss the altar or the tabernacle? Does he kiss the book of Gospels or the tabernacle? I am not diminishing the sanctity of the tabernacle; it has its place for private adoration. But, during Mass, it is not the focus of the faithful.

I agree with you regarding loud talking, lack of stations of the cross, and not bowing to the altar.

 

[rondirect]

I sympathize. I made it clear from the onset that I would do anything asked, if I could, but there was a whole lot I can’t do.

Add me to that list as well. In all my years at one church as part time director, both pastors had nothing to say about music. We have one visiting priest from a nearby parish that likes to chant some dialog: Opening Prayer and Prayer after Communion, and the Eucharistic Prayer Preface Dialogue. Easy enough…we chant this during the Exsultet, so easily done.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

Most of the masses I attend don’t have hymns. I’d rather have that than banalized, crappy hymns that get on my nerves and sung in a way that I find just tiresome. I don’t like being so annoyed by the ending hymn that I just want to leave.

I love gregorian chant or sung high mass but that’s about it.

 

[Peeps]

I’m not sure if you realize this, and I hope this comment helps rather than hurts you, and also makes all of us think about our own mindsets. Your post made me gulp and think very hard, with shame, about how often I’m only thinking about my own preferences.

There are six “I’s” in your short post.

The first “I” is fine. But think about these “I’s” ?

“I’d rather…”

“I find just tiresome.”

“I don’t like…”

" I just want to leave…"

“I love…”

This is why it’s so hard to have a frank discussion about music in Mass. We all do it. I do it. We defend our own preferences even if what we think doesn’t quite agree with what Holy Mother Church teaches about music in the Mass.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

Please. Do you always single people out and dissect their posts like that? Would you rather I give quotes from other church authorities that support why I have a problem with banalized music? It goes far beyond a mere personal preference.

Seriously I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that kind of rudeness on here, ever. Not even remotely constructive or helpful.

 

[Diaconia]

Your parish is blessed to have you there.

In my experience of 14 years as a deacon, and ministering at, and working at, different parishes it seems the ones who have the means (suburban, wealthier, parishes) often get better musicians, because they can afford them.

Many of the poorest parishes just have to rely on whoever helps out, because they don’t have the resources to enlist paid musicians, or even give stipends to them.

Parish music, just like parish homilies never please all the people all the time; there are simply too many different demographic groups in a parish church to do so: children, youth, young adults, married, married with children, seniors, divorced, widowed, etc.

Our parish is blessed with professional, paid, musicians coupled with our pastor and myself, who both have choral training, proficiency in Gregorian chant, and so forth.

God bless you for enhancing the worship of Almighty God,
Deacon Christopher

 

[rondirect]

This is why it’s so hard to have a frank discussion about music in Mass. We all do it. I do it. We defend our own preferences even if what we think doesn’t quite agree with what Holy Mother Church teaches about music in the Mass.

Peeps, whenever a thread is opened regarding music, we all go through the same discussion that just boils down to personal taste. But, know that some preferences noted on this topic are not church supported. Those who prefer no music do not know the documents and what the Catholic church prefers in “The Importance of Singing.” This seems to be a quarterly issue here. Notice that most musicians are totally not responding on this thread? And, the side tracks of other liturgical likes and dislikes rears its ugly head as well: church atmosphere, crucifix and tabernacle placement. Some become the authority of these things by their own appointment, yet they, I suspect, have never read anything in the GIRM, an ORDO, or any document pertaining to Canon Law. Even the prefaces in the Roman Missal and the Lectionary give instructions. It’s a circular argument that has no ending. Notice how my quote of the tabernacle not being the center of attraction over the altar is totally ignored? That proof does not fit with some people’s ideals, so it is ignored. I could go on, but why and to what extent?

 

[rondirect]

Your parish is blessed to have you there.

Thank you Deacon. I put my heart and soul in to what I do and I teach that to my musicians as well. And, for me, it goes beyond music, not for my glory, but for the people I (and the musicians) serve in order that they can fully participate (in what the church calls us to do) in worship for the glory of God, week after week.
Thank you as well for your call to serving the people of God.
Blessings.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

This was why I only bothered to be so horrible as to just mention my personal preference in the first place. I’ve never seen any discussions about the liturgy that have ever really gotten anywhere no matter what documentation is bantered about. It usually ends with something like “well, what I prefer is allowed so you’re in no place to tell me I’m wrong.” Next time I’m probably not even going to bother entering into the discussion at all.

 

[Wm777]

Am I the only one that doesn’t like church music? I’d rather just have the mass without music. When did music in mass become a thing? And why do we have to sing the Gloria instead of just reciting it?

Your question is too vague.

You cannot really isolate prayer to words alone because “when we sing we pray twice”, says Saint Augustine.

Music is the basis of the better half of our communications. It’s not just a written fact. But music - in its simple abstract way - reaches into the very depths of one’s soul and holds a mirror up to the listener.

Come and see.

Music originally facilitated oral tradition - the original proponent of our faith (i.e. prior to writing). Hence, the Psalms were sung, and are still sung even today. They command us to “make a joyful noise unto the Lord”.

Lectio Divina divides prayer into: 1.) Lectio (Reading), Oratio (i.e. Singing/Speaking), 3.) Meditation and 4.) Contemplatio. Lectio Divina existed in the B.C. era.

Sts Peter and Paul both mention singing hymns while in prison. In fact, even the Gospels are full of Canticles, which were ancient hymns

Gregorian Chant was standard fare prior to V2.

But here’s V2’s mandate to use music to educate and evangelize:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_.../vat-ii_instr_19670305_musicam-sacram_en.html

Ultimately - what type of music do you find distracting? New Age? Renaissance? Gregorian? Classical? Baroque? Plainchant?

Take your pick.

There’s got to be something you like…

To me, I think, while some masses are in fact held without music, if you are having trouble accepting music at mass (however great or horrible) - it probably indicates some kind of spiritual struggle. It may not be a bad struggle, but it makes no sense to try to separate music out from the written word. In fact, whatever the bible means by God’s “word” - the “word” is so great - it’s way beyond the anything written or sung or humanly conceivable… The very breath of God’s word formed all creation… so, if you’re distracted by music, how much more distracted would you be in contemplating the totality of reality?

Perhaps you want to speak to a Spiritual Director about the specifics of your question.

 

[PeterT]

Right but the church has to meet the needs of its people though, right? At least somewhat? That’s why the liturgy was changed into the vernacular

It was changed to the vernacular so the laity could more fully engage and participate in the Mass and therefore worship God at Mass more fully and completely.

 

[Peeps]

Do you get involved with your parish’s music ministries?

Do you have the option of regularly attending a parish that has music that meets your standards and enhances your faith?

 

[andderson]

We, as self-trained musicians in my circle, say after we totally botch a piece of music: “Well, that was good enough for Catholics”. guitar:

 

[ProVobis]

Problem is that it becomes a challenge to write new singable music for some of these translations.

 

[pnewton]

It is a challenge, but doable. I will say that I found most “Glorias” done rather poorly, but I like Mass of Renewal.