Can We Put this Myth to Rest: EF vs EMHC?

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GwenL said:
Correct.

“Extraordinary” doesn’t mean “only when absolutely necessary” in either the case of the EF or EMHCs. It just means “other than the ordinary.” Other than the ordinary form of the Mass, and other than the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion.

You cannot have the description of extraordinary in EF mean “other than the ordinary” while the description of extraordinary in EMHC mean “horrible, awful, reprobated, only when absolutely necessary, abnormal, etc.”

Each of the EF and EMHCs are regulated by Church directives, and of course differently.
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Exactly. The comparison is indeed warranted.
 
triumphguy said:
In the meantime my parish has 6 weekend masses with 2 priests and no deacons, with approximately 5-600 people at each mass. So EMHCs are necessary due to the amount of time it would take for the priest by themselves to serve communion to the faithful.
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The church only requires us to take Holy Communion once per year. We are taught to fast before receiving. Receive with due preparation and examination of conscience. We should never receive when in a state of mortal sin. Surely it is better to receive only once every ten weeks on a Sunday in a state of grace and preparedness than it is to have ten extraordinary ministers.

If anyone considers that this is not enough and they seek to be more religious, then why not attend a weekday mass where there is no queue to receive Holy Communion.

Instead we see everybody in the church queuing up like sheep for Holy Communion every week. Meanwhile the Confessional is forlorn and empty gathering dust. At my parish the priest doesn’t even bother to show up to hear confessions because he knows nobody will be there. You basically have to make an appointment.

Something is very, very wrong here. This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge. I heard a girl behind me mocking the priest and the church service, but she too filed up to receive from an EMHC.

I recommend banning EMHC’s. There really is no need for them. They merely facilillitate unprepared and often irreverent people to receive that most Holy when they should be going to the confessional and prayer closet first.
 
“Extraordinary” is a straightforward English word meaning “not ordinary”. It crops up in various terms within the Catholic Church to mean something different to what is considered normal.

So we have extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, who are lay people who distribute but do not consecrate Holy Communion. The fact that in the Latin Rite they now outnumber the clergy doesn’t stop them being extraordinary.

We also have the extraordinary form which is a set of words designed to suggest that the 1570 version of the Mass favoured by traditionalists is no longer the standard form.

We also have extraordinary means - but lets not go there.:eek:
 
petrel said:
The church only requires us to take Holy Communion once per year. We are taught to fast before receiving. Receive with due preparation and examination of conscience. We should never receive when in a state of mortal sin. Surely it is better to receive only once every ten weeks on a Sunday in a state of grace and preparedness than it is to have ten extraordinary ministers.

If anyone considers that this is not enough and they seek to be more religious, then why not attend a weekday mass where there is no queue to receive Holy Communion.

Instead we see everybody in the church queuing up like sheep for Holy Communion every week. Meanwhile the Confessional is forlorn and empty gathering dust. At my parish the priest doesn’t even bother to show up to hear confessions because he knows nobody will be there. You basically have to make an appointment.

Something is very, very wrong here. This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge. I heard a girl behind me mocking the priest and the church service, but she too filed up to receive from an EMHC.

I recommend banning EMHC’s. There really is no need for them. They merely facilillitate unprepared and often irreverent people to receive that most Holy when they should be going to the confessional and prayer closet first.
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So instead of EMHCs we have the ushers asking those in line if they are in a state of grace, and kicking them out of the communion line if they are not?
 
petrel said:
The church only requires us to take Holy Communion once per year. We are taught to fast before receiving. Receive with due preparation and examination of conscience. We should never receive when in a state of mortal sin. Surely it is better to receive only once every ten weeks on a Sunday in a state of grace and preparedness than it is to have ten extraordinary ministers.

If anyone considers that this is not enough and they seek to be more religious, then why not attend a weekday mass where there is no queue to receive Holy Communion.

Instead we see everybody in the church queuing up like sheep for Holy Communion every week. Meanwhile the Confessional is forlorn and empty gathering dust. At my parish the priest doesn’t even bother to show up to hear confessions because he knows nobody will be there. You basically have to make an appointment.

Something is very, very wrong here. This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge. I heard a girl behind me mocking the priest and the church service, but she too filed up to receive from an EMHC.

I recommend banning EMHC’s. There really is no need for them. They merely facilillitate unprepared and often irreverent people to receive that most Holy when they should be going to the confessional and prayer closet first.
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It’s interesting that you know the state of peoples souls…

Our confessionals are NOT empty at all. And I don’t know what daily Mass you have been at where there isn’t a line? I appreciate the use there of one EMHC as I do have to get back to work:shrug:

I try to concentrate on WHO I am receiving…not from whom. I don’t think banning EMHC’s is going to accomplish what YOU want.
 
triumphguy said:
So instead of EMHCs we have the ushers asking those in line if they are in a state of grace, and kicking them out of the communion line if they are not?
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I can see it now…“you…I don’t like the looks of you…you are out of here…”. People can start bribing the ushers…maybe we should fill out a 30 minute questionnaire before communion…only those that receive an A are allowed to go up to receive communion…
 
petrel said:
The church only requires us to take Holy Communion once per year. We are taught to fast before receiving. Receive with due preparation and examination of conscience. We should never receive when in a state of mortal sin. Surely it is better to receive only once every ten weeks on a Sunday in a state of grace and preparedness than it is to have ten extraordinary ministers.

If anyone considers that this is not enough and they seek to be more religious, then why not attend a weekday mass where there is no queue to receive Holy Communion.

Instead we see everybody in the church queuing up like sheep for Holy Communion every week. Meanwhile the Confessional is forlorn and empty gathering dust. At my parish the priest doesn’t even bother to show up to hear confessions because he knows nobody will be there. You basically have to make an appointment.

Something is very, very wrong here. This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge. I heard a girl behind me mocking the priest and the church service, but she too filed up to receive from an EMHC.

I recommend banning EMHC’s. There really is no need for them. They merely facilillitate unprepared and often irreverent people to receive that most Holy when they should be going to the confessional and prayer closet first.
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Good points. One is required to receive only once a year but is required to confess his sins (missing Mass on Sunday, sacrilege, etc.) as often as he commits them.
 
petrel said:
The church only requires us to take Holy Communion once per year. We are taught to fast before receiving. Receive with due preparation and examination of conscience. We should never receive when in a state of mortal sin. Surely it is better to receive only once every ten weeks on a Sunday in a state of grace and preparedness than it is to have ten extraordinary ministers.

If anyone considers that this is not enough and they seek to be more religious, then why not attend a weekday mass where there is no queue to receive Holy Communion.

Instead we see everybody in the church queuing up like sheep for Holy Communion every week. Meanwhile the Confessional is forlorn and empty gathering dust. At my parish the priest doesn’t even bother to show up to hear confessions because he knows nobody will be there. You basically have to make an appointment.

Something is very, very wrong here. This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge. I heard a girl behind me mocking the priest and the church service, but she too filed up to receive from an EMHC.

I recommend banning EMHC’s. There really is no need for them. They merely facilillitate unprepared and often irreverent people to receive that most Holy when they should be going to the confessional and prayer closet first.
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It is true that we are only required to take communion once a year. However, Pope St. Pious X encouraged us to receive more often. Many Popes and Saints before and since then have done the same. We should encourage people to be properly prepared to receive every time they attend Mass and we do that by encouraging sacramental confession and a proper disposition. It’s not helpful to judge those going up to communion, who may indeed have confessed all their mortal sins and are looking to the graces received from communion to absolve their venial sins.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
It is true that we are only required to take communion once a year. However, Pope St. Pious X encouraged us to receive more often.
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Pope St. Pius X meant we should live our lives so that we would be worthy to receive every day. Obviously he didn’t want us to receive in the state of sin or go without fasting (at the time it was from midnight on).
 
ProVobis said:
Pope St. Pius X meant we should live our lives so that we would be worthy to receive every day. Obviously he didn’t want us to receive in the state of sin or go without fasting (at the time it was from midnight on).
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Correct, which is what I said. So the answer isn’t to say make going to communion harder. The answer is help people be properly disposed to receive when they present themselves.
 
GwenL said:
Correct.

“Extraordinary” doesn’t mean “only when absolutely necessary” in either the case of the EF or EMHCs. It just means “other than the ordinary.” Other than the ordinary form of the Mass, and other than the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion.

You cannot have the description of extraordinary in EF mean “other than the ordinary” while the description of extraordinary in EMHC mean “horrible, awful, reprobated, only when absolutely necessary, abnormal, etc.”

Each of the EF and EMHCs are regulated by Church directives, and of course differently.
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👍👍👍
 
petrel said:
The church only requires us to take Holy Communion once per year. We are taught to fast before receiving. Receive with due preparation and examination of conscience. We should never receive when in a state of mortal sin. Surely it is better to receive only once every ten weeks on a Sunday in a state of grace and preparedness than it is to have ten extraordinary ministers.

If anyone considers that this is not enough and they seek to be more religious, then why not attend a weekday mass where there is no queue to receive Holy Communion.

Instead we see everybody in the church queuing up like sheep for Holy Communion every week. Meanwhile the Confessional is forlorn and empty gathering dust. At my parish the priest doesn’t even bother to show up to hear confessions because he knows nobody will be there. You basically have to make an appointment.

Something is very, very wrong here. This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge. I heard a girl behind me mocking the priest and the church service, but she too filed up to receive from an EMHC.

I recommend banning EMHC’s. There really is no need for them. They merely facilillitate unprepared and often irreverent people to receive that most Holy when they should be going to the confessional and prayer closet first.
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Why don’t you take that last recommendation to your pastor, or better yet, your bishop. They authorize and control the use of EMHCs. Let us know how it goes.
 
ProVobis said:
Good points. One is required to receive only once a year but is required to confess his sins (missing Mass on Sunday, sacrilege, etc.) as often as he commits them.
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Not really: Can. 989 After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is obliged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year.
 
GwenL said:
Why don’t you take that last recommendation to your pastor, or better yet, your bishop. They authorize and control the use of EMHCs. Let us know how it goes.
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I think you know as well as I do how that would go.
 
petrel said:
This means that a great bulk of people receiving Holy Communion are in a state of mortal sin which is a great sacriledge.
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Really? A great bulk of people? And how do you know the state of the souls of a great bulk of people?

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
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  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor
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NewEnglandPries said:
Not really: Can. 989 After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is obliged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year.
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I don’t understand this. If we commit mortal sin, we were instructed to say a perfect act of contrition with a firm intent to seek confession as soon as possible.
 
triumphguy said:
So instead of EMHCs we have the ushers asking those in line if they are in a state of grace, and kicking them out of the communion line if they are not?
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No I did not suggest that. What I do suggest is that we have no EMHC’s and a very, very long queue. It will not take long before those who are not serious about receiving the most Holy Eucharist decide to not join the queue in order to not delay the mass so that they can get out from mass all the quicker.

Better yet, why not require people to receive on the tongue, kneeling. That will further shorten the queue.
Now here is a shocking notion. How about a sermon about the necessity of contrition and confession for forgiveness of mortal sins before receiving? A sermon which warns of the horrors of sacriledge and punishment of hell for those who defile the Holy Eucharist. When did we last hear a sermon like that if ever?

Maybe if people thought twice about the seriousness of what they were doing they would think twice before filing up to receive as if they were lining up to get a bowl of soup
 
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