Can you be both Catholic and Buddhist?

[dzheremi]

It will not, of course, in itself unite you to the Living God who is Father, Son, and holy Spirit.

Indeed it will not. That’s case closed in my book.

But most Christians throughout the centuries would be quite startled by the suggestion that detachment from selfish desire does not bring you *closer *to God, whether as a preparation for Christian faith or as a means for the sanctification of believers.

Yes, certainly. I don’t know where I said otherwise. But a noble goal in route to something greater is not enough. I would have no problem accepting that a Buddhist could become a Christian, drawing on their previous experience in that tradition to strengthen their new faith, but it is the idea of a Christian joining Buddhism and trying to be some sort of hybrid Christian-Buddhist that is problematic and should be resisted.

Buddhists and Christians certainly differ about what is ultimate, but each tradition recognizes (or should recognize) some value in the practices of the other.

And? We’re not talking about what has value. We’re talking about what is acceptable in the Christian tradition. It is not acceptable to be a Buddhist and a Christian.

The fact that you consider Buddhism “self-centered” shows not only how little you understand it, but how little you understand what you said above about Buddhists practicing detachment from ego.

And the fact that you’re getting on your self-righteous high horse over what practicing Buddhists themselves have told me shows me that you’re not actually interested in any kind of dialogue, just as the majority of my past interactions with you have shown. It is probable that the people who I have spoken to were not any kind of Buddhist ‘purists’, and so it is likely they could have been in error about what Buddhism is (e.g., one was a self-identified Jew, though he admitted to doing far more meditating than going to temple), but this does nothing to erase the many hours of discussion we had on this and other religious topics. It is these conversations with practicing Buddhists that I base my opinion on. I have not seen anything from the writings of native Buddhists anywhere in the world that would contradict their main points, even if western converts weren’t exactly getting it right 100% of the time.

A religion whose most basic teaching is that we have no self is hardly “self-centered”!

And Islam’s basic teaching is that it worships the one God of Abraham, Jesus, and all other holy men throughout the ages, and one of Judaism’s basic teachings is that they await the coming Messiah, and one of Bahai’s basic teachings is that all self-proclaimed prophets are acceptable as messengers of God, etc. Eventually you need to start calling them as you see them, unless you are fine with falling into heresy. When my Buddhist acquaintances told me that part of the goal of their meditation is to transcend “the self” or annihilate “the ego”, I wasn’t going to jump up and tell them “but Buddhism says the self doesn’t exist”! Chances are they were using the vocabulary both of us would be comfortable with and able to conceptualize, not making some sort of doctrinal statement. And so, with all this talk about the individuals’ relation to whatever the ultimate goal is of their Buddhist practice, I came away with the idea that Buddhism is self-centered in essence because of its internal focus. It is not about God, it is about you and purifying yourself and annihilating your ego and all that other stuff. You, you, you. Not God, but you. The ultimate goal may be to get rid of this “you”, but that is neither here nor there to me. It still struck me as ultimately inwardly focused, stopping short of transforming any of that introspection into works for God (because, as you’ve admitted, Buddhism does not lead to God).

One could make a much better case that Christianity is self-centered (though that wouldn’t be fair either), because many Christians believe that individual salvation is the primary goal of Christianity.

One could, but I didn’t in the post you are replying to.

But if all things are created in Christ and hold together in Christ, this statement is meaningless, because there isn’t “anything else.” There are defects and imperfections in created things (particularly those created by humans, such as religions) which lead us away from Christ. But all that is was made by and in and through and for Christ.

Yes, through Him all things were created. This means that the money changers in the temple, all kinds of ancient and modern idolaters, and all heretics and blasphemers also belong in this category. Yet we are not to be like any of them.

Alright, my CCC 841 sense is tingling, so I’m dropping out of this thread for now. Best of luck to you, Edwin. We will not see eye to eye on this or probably much else, but I do admire the vigor with which you defend your intellectual arguments, even as I have trouble maintaining a sense of charity towards you sometimes. I apologize if anything I have said here offends you, and I ask your forgiveness for anything written in haste and passion. Unfortunately, my battle with that particular demon does not end with the end of Lent.

 

[rick43235]

There’s another post which asks if Catholics are committing idoltary if they have a statue of Buddha. Yes.

No.

My wife, a life-long Catholic, is originally from an Asian country. Many, many people have statues of the Buddha in their homes. It’s more of a cultural thing. My wife spent many years working for the Church in her native country and I had the opportunity to visit with some of the priests she worked with. Even some of them had statues of the Buddha in their homes. I seriously doubt that they were practicing idolatry.

 

[Lycorth]

So because you–by your own present belief not in a very healthy spiritual state at the time–didn’t find these teachings in three short years, you are sure they don’t exist?

I didn’t say they “didn’t exist”, I said the Church has all of them, and in much better form.

One could also say that if I were in “spiritual need” at the time and if Buddhism couldn’t cut the mustard, it all the more condemns it.

Wouldn’t you consider this a frivolous claim if someone made it about Catholicism?

Yes, but Catholicism is the truth, Buddhism isn’t. I don’t believe in equality or egalitarianism and Catholicism and Buddhism can hardly be compared, much less considered on any sort of nonexistent equal footing.

When it comes to matters of truth, beauty, and goodness (the things that really matter), only a hireling stops to ask if the inquiry will “pay.”

Nice attempt at an insult.

For your information, I was no “hireling” but an honest seeker, looking for anything that could live up to its claims to fill the spiritual void in man. Buddhism failed miserably.

For a so-called “Christian” to gainsay that I find very… suspicious…

 

[aicirt]

No.

My wife, a life-long Catholic, is originally from an Asian country. Many, many people have statues of the Buddha in their homes. It’s more of a cultural thing. My wife spent many years working for the Church in her native country and I had the opportunity to visit with some of the priests she worked with. Even some of them had statues of the Buddha in their homes. I seriously doubt if they were practicing idolatry.

Hmmm. I don’t think the commandment has an escape clause such as “but you can keep an idol if it is a cultural thing.” It means no other false gods before Me.

Let’s look at it another way. Would Jesus have kept a statue of Buddha? Would He have kept Hindu gods, or Baal? NO. The Jews were in deep trouble with the Romans because they wouldn’t accept the Roman cultural thing of having Ceasar worshipped and placed in a temple in their country. The early Christians suffered martyrdom for the same reason.

“But we’re not worshipping it” argument. Buddha was a man who is treated like a god. You are giving it a place of honor in your home and in your heart. There is something about it that appeals to you. There’s got to be some part of Buddhist philosophy that you want represented in your home.

And we are all converts. Somewhere there are pagan gods which my family worshipped back when. Don’t have any of those statues in my house.

Not trying to be harsh. Just trying to explain.

 

[Lycorth]

Hmmm. I don’t think the commandment has an escape clause such as “but you can keep an idol if it is a cultural thing.” It means no other false gods before Me.

Spot-on explanation. There is no loophole that says that idols are OK if they’re just “cultural” or whatever. That’s making excuses, not standing firm and exclusive for Christ.

It comes down to a matter of priorities.

 

[aicirt]

Hmmm. I don’t think the commandment has an escape clause such as “but you can keep an idol if it is a cultural thing.” It means no other false gods before Me.

Let’s look at it another way. Would Jesus have kept a statue of Buddha? Would He have kept Hindu gods, or Baal? NO. The Jews were in deep trouble with the Romans because they wouldn’t accept the Roman cultural thing of having Ceasar worshipped and placed in a temple in their country. The early Christians suffered martyrdom for the same reason.

“But we’re not worshipping it” argument. Buddha was a man who is treated like a god. You are giving it a place of honor in your home and in your heart. There is something about it that appeals to you. There’s got to be some part of Buddhist philosophy that you want represented in your home.

And we are all converts. Somewhere there are pagan gods which my family worshipped back when. Don’t have any of those statues in my house.

Not trying to be harsh. Just trying to explain.

OOOPS…missed the 20 minute editing window must correct my sentence “It means no other false gods before Me.” “Other” definitely has to go. Fingers moving quicker than the brain. :bigyikes:

 

[MeekandHumble]

kennedyzen.tripod.com/

Robert Kennedy S.J. is a Jesuit priest and Zen teacher, so I presume it must be acceptable on some level.

Did no one see that this is/was a Jesuit? Or did everyone just ignore it?

 

[catharina]

from Nostra Aetate, Pope Paul VI

74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:NcUcG7poLqkJ:www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html+vatican,+catholic+teaching+buddhist+catholic&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

" …
Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself. …"

IOW,
a Catholic is a Catholic who must always proclaim Christ the Lord.

 

[benidict]

The primary belief in Buddhism is that the self does not exist. Christianity has a belief in souls, which is akin to the very belief Buddhism aims to eliminate.

hi. i think buddhism, is alot more complex than that. it goes beyond the self not existing, to nonexistence not existing its a pretty intense belief system. if however someone is looking for a more mystical path within catholocism, their priest can help them out. the rosary, contemplative prayer, first friday adoration with the rosary etc. can lead to some incredible mystical experiences, without having to add to the traditions of the Catholic Church, or leave her. Peace

 

[aicirt]

Did no one see that this is/was a Jesuit? Or did everyone just ignore it?

Is a Zen teacher the same as a Zen priest? Is he teaching it so others might understand the culture which is probably something one would want to know if doing missionary work in Asia. Or if you were working overseas.

 

[aicirt]

from Nostra Aetate, Pope Paul VI

74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:NcUcG7poLqkJ:www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html+vatican,+catholic+teaching+buddhist+catholic&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

" …
Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself. …"

IOW,
a Catholic is a Catholic who must always proclaim Christ the Lord.

Would you so kind as to provide the quote where it says it is okay to have a statue of Buddha in your home. Thanks.

 

[Holly3278]

Ummm no. You cannot be both a Catholic and be another religion at the same time without being a heretic.

 

[MeekandHumble]

Is a Zen teacher the same as a Zen priest? Is he teaching it so others might understand the culture which is probably something one would want to know if doing missionary work in Asia. Or if you were working overseas.

How would you feel if catholic priests started telling it’s members to practice the Seventh-Day Adventist beliefs but also tell them not to become one? What is the difference?

 

[Holly3278]

How would you feel if catholic priests started telling it’s members to practice the Seventh-Day Adventist beliefs but also tell them not to become one? What is the difference?

If I ever witnessed that happening, I would immediately report the priest in question to the local bishop.

 

[MeekandHumble]

If I ever witnessed that happening, I would immediately report the priest in question to the local bishop.

So why would it be okay for a Jesuit to practice (teach) Buddhism? That statement is directed toward a comment on the first page. Post 30 to be exact.

 

[Holly3278]

So why would it be okay for a Jesuit to practice (teach) Buddhism? That statement is directed toward a comment on the first page.

It would not be okay for a Jesuit to practice Buddhism. However, it would be okay for a Jesuit to teach the basic teachings of Buddhism to other Catholics so that the other Catholics may effectively evangelize the Buddhists.

 

[MeekandHumble]

It would not be okay for a Jesuit to practice Buddhism. However, it would be okay for a Jesuit to teach the basic teachings of Buddhism to other Catholics so that the other Catholics may effectively evangelize the Buddhists.

This quote is from the website.
For the occasion of Fr. Hunt’s installation, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, S.J., wrote:

"Because of the long preparation and training required to become a master of the demanding Zen training, Fr. Hunt’s achievement is one that we can all celebrate in thanksgiving to God … Jesuits and other Christians have found Zen to be a valuable instrument for progressing in the spiritual life. … By coming to focus on the present moment through the practice of the techniques of Zen meditation, the Christian can become aware of God’s immediate loving presence."

They (jesuits) are encouraging Christians to practice buddhism.

Why is it okay for them to “teach” or “practice” it?

 

[Miserys_Fence]

There’s another post which asks if Catholics are committing idoltary if they have a statue of Buddha. Yes.

Then I suppose you’re also committing idolatry by simply owning a statue of Mother Mary.

Having a statue and worshipping a statue are 2 entirely different things. I have a sofa and a piano in my living room, and I don’t worship either one. Now, if I can resist the temptation ( ) to worship 2 huge pieces of furniture, I’m sure I can muster up the will power to also not worship a 6-inch statue.

Miz

 

[rick43235]

Then I suppose you’re also committing idolatry by simply owning a statue of Mother Mary.

Having a statue and worshipping a statue are 2 entirely different things.

I was going to say the say thing, but decided it just wasn’t worth the effort. Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious. (Hope you’re wearing your flame-proof suit.)

 

[rick43235]

Spot-on explanation. There is no loophole that says that idols are OK if they’re just “cultural” or whatever. That’s making excuses, not standing firm and exclusive for Christ.

Oh, this is just ridiculous. Having a decorative statue in one’s home has no relation whatsoever to one “standing firm and exclusive for Christ.”