Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

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To Sr Terese PART I

Sr Terese, Fr Corapi is not just an ordinary layperson who has simply stumbled and fallen. Fr Corapi has fallen in the same manner that Lucifer fell. Fr Corapi was a great servant of God who has been seduced by an evil spirit known as right wing conservatism. He has not just stumbled but has fallen into the sin of rebellion against God like Lucifer did. Fr Corapi could have realized the gravity of his sin being seduced by worldly wealth and power and repented by obeying his bishop, dropping the lawsuit, surrendering all his accumulated wealth to his Bishop and returned to his Holy Orders for discipline. Had he done that then we can say he has stumbled and fallen but is on his way to restoration. But instead, he has rebelled against his Bishop and has used his unlawful and unholy power of wealth to rein terror on his inner parishioners. Fr Corapi has rejected his Master Jesus Christ for his new Master wealth and Mammon. Consider the words of Saint James;

Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong? James 2:6-7

Fr Corapi has abandoned Christ to serve mammon and now his new master drags the poor servant of the Lord into court to sue her in order to rein terror on any of his inner parishioners who dares reports the evil he has committed. Fr Corapi has bowed his knee to Satan and made the devil his master! How can you even begin to defend his actions? I submit to you Sr Terese, that Fr Corapi has become A Marxist! He has not just stumbled in his walk with Christ, he has abandoned Christ! And what makes matters worse is that Fr Corapi is Catholic priest who is huge public figure. Yes Sr Terese, Fr Corapi has been seduced by right wing Conservatism which is an evil spirit masquerading as an Angel of light and is ruining the souls of many Catholics and other Christians. We all know that true liberalism is evil that it has no mask. But right wing conservatism is unbridled liberalism disguised as godliness. Pope Paul the VI addresses this unbridled Liberalism in his encyclical Popular Progresso:

*23. “He who has the goods of this world and sees his brother in need and closes his heart to him, how does the love of God abide in him?” (21) Everyone knows that the Fathers of the Church laid down the duty of the rich toward the poor in no uncertain terms. As St. Ambrose put it: “You are not making a gift of what is yours to the poor man, but you are giving him back what is his. You have been appropriating things that are meant to be for the common use of everyone. The earth belongs to everyone, not to the rich.” (22) These words indicate that the right to private property is not absolute and unconditional.

No one may appropriate surplus goods solely for his own private use when others lack the bare necessities of life. In short, “as the Fathers of the Church and other eminent theologians tell us, the right of private property may never be exercised to the detriment of the common good.” When “private gain and basic community needs conflict with one another,” it is for the public authorities “to seek a solution to these questions, with the active involvement of individual citizens and social groups.” (23)

26. However, certain concepts have somehow arisen out of these new conditions and insinuated themselves into the fabric of human society. These concepts present profit as the chief spur to economic progress, free competition as the guiding norm of economics, and private ownership of the means of production as an absolute right, having no limits nor concomitant social obligations.*

This unbridled liberalism paves the way for a particular type of tyranny, rightly condemned by Our predecessor Pius XI, for it results in the “international imperialism of money.”(26)

Such improper manipulations of economic forces can never be condemned enough; let it be said once again that economics is supposed to be in the service of man. (27)

But if it is true that a type of capitalism, as it is commonly called, has given rise to hardships, unjust practices, and fratricidal conflicts that persist to this day

END OF PART I
David: I think we are actually on the same page. I don’t disagree with anything that you have stated EXCEPT the part about Fr. Corapi’s fall, or anyone else’s fall, for that matter, was due to “right wing conservatism.” I guess my point was that it doesn’t matter if one is liberal, democrat, republican, conservative, or whatever. We are all stained by Original Sin and therefore have the inclination to evil. Like I said, I think we are on the same page.
 
By What Authority did the donkey rebuke the prophet Balaam (Numbers 22:21-34)?

The Pharisees and the Scribes were the religious authority of their days, they were the successors of Moses and Jesus told Jerusalem that theymust obey their teachings because they had ecclesiastical authority (Matt 23:1-3). Yet in Matthew 21 Jesus entered the courts and was teaching the chief priests and the elders of Israel and they questioned him asking him the same question you are asking me, “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you this authority?” (vs 23)

The authority has been given to me by virtue of sacramental grace. It is my vocation and I am called to the religious life which already manifest itself in me. I spend many hours a day in prayer, before the blessed sacrament, in scripture and daily mass. When a person does these things they become very strong in faith and the knoweldge and wisdom of God. The words I say bear witness to the truth of the scriptures and the teachings of the Church. I am like the *** who spoke to the prophet Nathaniel. Sister Terese should consider my words to see if they bear witness to her spirit, the scripture, and the teachings of the Church. That is why I told her to pray manhy rosaries and mjeditate on the Word of God. If she does these things she will know whether what I say comes from God or the flesh.

In the service of Christ and His Church,

David
I was actually fine with everything you said except the word command. If you phrase it like you did here “consider my words” I see no problem whatsoever. Of course, this is just my personal opinion.
 
David: I, too, have been in religious life for many years–spend many hours praying before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament–say many Rosaries, and read the Holy Scriptures–particularly from the Douay-Rheims translation. No one, no matter how learned they become in the knowledge of Scripture, Tradition, or mysticism can solemnly proclaim to anyone without the Authority of the Church, what is or is not the direct cause of one’s own personal sin. Not even the Holy Father can or should do that. The Authority of the Church in matters of Faith and Morals is strictly and traditionally held only in the authority of the Pope Ex Cathedra. It seems to me, and I very well might be mistaken, that you are judging others by your own experiences and standards. There is no question that your experiences and standards are meritorious. Howe ver, you simply must be very careful when applying those to other people. That is not Catholic nor is it charitable. You cannot nor should not presume to be another’s conscience, especially when you know so little about another person.

You seem to apply inconsistent values to the “right wing conservative” spectrum. It is also evident that you seem to have anointed yourself as a sole mini "magisterium"unto yourself. Your opinion seems to be the litmus tester of all things spiritual, political and/or social. Again, you implore others to be humble and submit themselves to more rigid prayers and sacrifices without knowing what that person’s background or current spiritual, emotional, mental or social situation they may be living. That, to me, is the height of arrogance. To make simple and kind suggestions always in charity to encourage someone to look at an issue in another light is one thing. To chastise and condemn without authority borders on heresy.

And that, my friend, is that. You will be in my prayers each day before the Blessed Sacrament. God bless you.

In Christ Crucified,
Sr. Terese Peter, OSB
 
Dear Sr Terese,
I humble myself to your statute, religious anointing, and wisdom. With that said, I do not believe I border heresy because there is no evidence I have spoken contrary to church teaching that would constitute heresy. I have not even spoken bordering schism. A person can and does speak the wisdom of God even though the Church has not yet sanctioned it. Even though I am currently a lay person I am still part of the body of the Church (albiet a small part).

Every word that is uttered in the name of the Lord as being discernment or a private revelation is subject to the judgment of the Church. So let the Church judge my words! For instance Saint Maria Faustina Kowalska vision came before the Church sanctioned they were authentic. Did that mean she bordered heresy? St Joan of Arc spoke in the name of the Lord and was judged a heretic by the Church and burned at the stake! Yet 400 years later she was canonized a saint! Saint Joan of Arc was an example of a woman wrongly judged by the Church!

The words I speak about Right Wing Conservatism I believe are both a correct descerment and a private revelation. Right wing conservatism is not the same as conservatism. Conservatism embraces virtue, traditional values, and is cautious to changes. Right wing conservatism has the elements of conservatism but does not practice virtue. It has a great lack of temperance, denies the social justice teachings of the Church even to go as far as calling it Marxism and Communism!

Right Wing Conservatism does not speak the truth but speaks lies and distorts truth and it is a growing cancer in our society that has already destroyed the peace and solidarity of our country. It has now infected the Church and as I pointed out before, Fr John Corapi is a victim being devoured by it. Right wing conservatism is the devil Sr Terese, of that I am convinced. The scriptures teach us that the devil is like a roaring lion going to and fro seeking whom he might devour.

If right wing conservative leaders wanted to end abortion then Roe V Wade would have been overturned more than 10 years ago. We have had a majority of conservative Catholic judges sitting on the Supreme Court Bench since 2001. But if Roe V Wade is overturned, then they would not be able to advance their real agenda and that is a laissez-faire economic system, which Pope Pius XI and Pope Paul the VI pegged as UNBRIDDLED LIBERALISM and said that such a system can never be condemned enough! So in a sence my words have already been judged by the Church as being truthful and from God.

The evidence of this is crystal clear, the call for smaller government (not taught by scripture or the church) and more corporate power, the transfer of wealth in our nation where a small population controls it while others suffer unjust wages and benefits. The disappearing middle class. The call to end democracy because it is somehow tyranny. The call to take the vote away from the poor calling it “un American.” These are all signs of a great evil arising in our society and the Church needs to wake up.

You may believe I have anointed myself as a mini Magesterium and that may well be true. But it also may well be true that what I speak is an authentic private revelation, a warning to the Church. Consider the words from today’s readings from Ezekiel 3:18:

When I say to a wicked man, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for[a] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.

I believe I have received a private revelation regarding the evil of right wing conservatism and that personal belief compels me to shout it from the roof tops or I become accountable to God for my silence. Again Sr Terese, let the Church be the judge. I may have crossed the line and made unfair judgments on the personal lives of others, but I may have also correctly discerned it. Let each individual be the judge of whether or not I spoke the truth about their personal lives and let me stand before God who will judge the living and the dead to give an account.

I am permitted to make personal judgments regarding good and evil. I can tell the woman who had an abortion she has committed evil. Catholic lay people make judgments about liberal politicians all the time (Obama is another Hitler, a Muslim, a terrorist, a liar, a Marxist…). But when I speak about the evils of right wing conservatism suddenly I am making a judgment without the permission of the Church.

The truth is Sr Terese, neither I or anyone else needs permission from the Church when making discernment or a private revelation. We only need to be judged by the Church according to what is said or a tribunal investigation’s judgment. If the Church judges my words illicit, so be it! I submit myself to the Magesterium. But if the Church judges I have spoken prophetically, then I guess when I die I can one day be considered for canonization. Its not like there are no more saints to be recognized in the future.

Finally Sr Terese, there is a word of wisdom someone once gave me a long time ago which has stuck with me, someone once told me to learn to eat the oats and spit out the straw. So I would humbly ask you to read again and think about what I have said and I am sure that along with the straws you will find some good oats in those words.

In the service of Christ and His Church,

David
 
Rationaliztions aside a Catholic can not vote for a pro-abortion canidate if a viable pro-life alternative is available. There is no moral equivalence between supporting the slaughter of the unborn and any moral shortcomings a given candidate may have. the church neither endorses nor opposes the policies advocated political party concerning the other issues you mention . Clean water Outsourcing of jobs are of little concern to those who are denied the right to life. The assertion that the Republicans really don’t do anything to stop abortion is so divorced from reality . It takes one’s breath away. Every single limitation on abortion in the last f40 years has come via Republican legislators and every single one of them was vehemently opposed by the Democrat party. . It is no surprise someone who can rationalize supporting pro-abortion Democrats can also rationalize supporting an organization that makes money off killing unborn children , a disproportionate number of which are are African-Americans. . I don’t know about you but there is no number of free Pap smears that can mitigate that evil.
The reality is that people vote liberal or conservative within their own party for a wide range of reasons. I have never bought into the over-simplistic idea that all Republicans are this and all Democrats are that. For example, in your statement above you imply that limitations on abortion were brought about by individual Republican legislators, but that they were opposed by the entire Democratic party (implying ALL members). I do not believe this to be true. Your stance seems to have more to do with political chauvinism than is does an honest representation.
 
The reality is that people vote liberal or conservative within their own party for a wide range of reasons. I have never bought into the over-simplistic idea that all Republicans are this and all Democrats are that. For example, in your statement above you imply that limitations on abortion were brought about by individual Republican legislators, but that they were opposed by the entire Democratic party (implying ALL members). I do not believe this to be true. Your stance seems to have more to do with political chauvinism than is does an honest representation.
Although, generally speaking, I think you have to recognize that it is the Republican party more so than the Democratic party who have consistently lead the charge against abortion. Of course, there are a minimal amount of pro-life democrats–and some are very staunch in their voting and beliefs, however this is not the norm for the democrats. Being a pro-life democrat today is somewhat akin to being an anti-Nazi in Germany during WWII. Although there were many Germans who were opposed to the Nazis, they were not the norm during those times, for whatever reasons. There are statistics which back up his/her statements regarding the pro-life, pro-abortion attitudes and voting records of the democrats. It is just too early in the morning for me to go researching the data. God bless you!
 
What I was trying to point out is that lavish living is not limited to conservatives, and that some liberals do so as well.

davidmlamb seemed to be making the point that only conservatives fall into lavish lifestyles, and I was pointing out that some liberals do too.
davidmlamb’s rhetoric (which I have to admit I greatly enjoy) is often over the top, but I think his point was that contemporary “right wing conservative” ideology glorifies material gain. I’m not sure whether or not that has anything to do with Fr. Corapi. But I do know that I hear “conservative” Republicans speaking this way all the time. Just as both liberals and conservatives can fall into sexual sin, but liberals are the ones who justify certain forms of sexual immorality, so both conservatives and liberals can be materialistic, but so-called “conservatives” in the American political scene today seem to have committed themselves to the glorification of material gain as a good and holy purpose for human life and society.

Edwin
 
davidmlamb’s rhetoric (which I have to admit I greatly enjoy) is often over the top, but I think his point was that contemporary “right wing conservative” ideology glorifies material gain. I’m not sure whether or not that has anything to do with Fr. Corapi. But I do know that I hear “conservative” Republicans speaking this way all the time. Just as both liberals and conservatives can fall into sexual sin, but liberals are the ones who justify certain forms of sexual immorality, so both conservatives and liberals can be materialistic, but so-called “conservatives” in the American political scene today seem to have committed themselves to the glorification of material gain as a good and holy purpose for human life and society.

Edwin
The only things humans really need are basic clothing, food, shelter, and possibly healthcare. Everything above that **IS **an optional luxury that is not necessary to sustain life. That’s why I laugh at DavidLamb. I think he sees some shallow and Lost Republicans and conservatives using money to go astray, and wishes that more liberals and Democrats would have the same opportunities, thanks to receiving more money, to screw up their lives just as badly by buying more of pop cluture’s shallow amusements. Money can’t buy true love. Not all conservatives are materialists first and love second, as he likes to believe.
 
“But I do know that I hear “conservative” Republicans speaking this way all the time. Just as both liberals and conservatives can fall into sexual sin, but liberals are the ones who justify certain forms of sexual immorality, so both conservatives and liberals can be materialistic, but so-called “conservatives” in the American political scene today seem to have committed themselves to the glorification of material gain as a good and holy purpose for human life and society.”

I am a conservative republican and I do not hear them speaking that way. I think we misinterpret some of the things conservatives say. I agree with most of what you stated. However, what I don’t agree with is your statement that so-called “conservatives …today seem to have committed themselves to the glorification of materials gain…” From what I’ve heard, conservative republicans SUPPORT the ideals of the Founding Fathers in that property rights are essential to our economic progress. I also realize that it is the republicans who are very supportive of business and entrepreneurship, which is what is going to and has fueled our country’s economy…if we can ever recover from the state of Obama-nation. I believe that republicans do recognize and accept that we are all fallen beings and are prone to evil inclinations. But, I feel that republicans are far more ready to admit failures than are democrats–at least in my experience. Maybe I’ve just been hanging around a different crowd of republicans.🤷
I still do not know what to think about Fr. Corapi’s situation. I do know that after hearing about Fr. Pavone’s problem with his bishop, I am far more edified by Pavone’s response than I am/was with Corapi’s.
 
How quickly we forget what the situation was when Obama took office. He was given a short period of time to perform a magic cure and since this didn’t happen, he is now blamed for the economic malaise. And in all the discussion of federal spending, rarely mentioned is the staggering cost of our overseas military adventures, perhaps because for some, the only federal spending that is acceptable is spending on war.
 
How quickly we forget what the situation was when Obama took office. He was given a short period of time to perform a magic cure and since this didn’t happen, he is now blamed for the economic malaise. And in all the discussion of federal spending, rarely mentioned is the staggering cost of our overseas military adventures, perhaps because for some, the only federal spending that is acceptable is spending on war.
Yes how quickly we forget. On his third day in office he relased funds to overseas abortion providers. Meanwhile he waited three years to propose a jobs plan-shows you where his priorities are, doesnt it?
 
The only things humans really need are basic clothing, food, shelter, and possibly healthcare. Everything above that **IS **an optional luxury that is not necessary to sustain life. That’s why I laugh at DavidLamb. I think he sees some shallow and Lost Republicans and conservatives using money to go astray, and wishes that more liberals and Democrats would have the same opportunities,
I’m not sure what you are saying here. Human beings in order to live a dignified life need a little more than what you stated. They also need meaningful work, rest from that work and meaningful time to spend with their families including extended holiday time. They also need opportunity to grow in both their secular and religious vocations and to succeed in them. Human beings also are morally obligated to practice the virtue of temperance and loving their neighbor as they love themselves. They need to understand with moral consequence that although private property is a right, it IS NOT an absolute right. No one may appropriate surplus goods solely for his own private use when others lack the bare necessities of life. Wealth belongs to everyone in an unequal but just manner; so the right to private property can never be exercised to the detriment of the common good.
 
Yes how quickly we forget. On his third day in office he relased funds to overseas abortion providers. Meanwhile he waited three years to propose a jobs plan-shows you where his priorities are, doesnt it?
Sooo, we can compare the funds which you assert he “released to overseas abortion providers” to the funds spent on military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan? Does abortion funding justify war funding, then? Or is it the other way around?
 
davidmlamb’s rhetoric (which I have to admit I greatly enjoy) is often over the top, but I think his point was that contemporary “right wing conservative” ideology glorifies material gain. I’m not sure whether or not that has anything to do with Fr. Corapi. But I do know that I hear “conservative” Republicans speaking this way all the time. Just as both liberals and conservatives can fall into sexual sin, but liberals are the ones who justify certain forms of sexual immorality, so both conservatives and liberals can be materialistic, but so-called “conservatives” in the American political scene today seem to have committed themselves to the glorification of material gain as a good and holy purpose for human life and society.

Edwin
“Lavish living” is not a sin in of itself and there are many Scriptural references that prove it. It is one’s attitude toward material that concerns Our Lord. It is our attachment to things and especially in context to our treatment of others, rather than our possession of things that is at issue. I think I would rather stand before God, the wealthiest and most generous of people, than the poorest and most covetous. In my experience the most generous, loving and concerned individuals I know have been the wealthiest, while the poorest have been hateful, resentful and unkind. It is an anecdotal generalization that does not hold true for all, but it proves that the simplistic view of “wealth=bad, poverty=good” is just as wrongheaded as the old Jewish assumption that wealth indicates God’s favor.

Having been raised Republican and moving in Republican circles, not once have I heard a Republican glorify wealth. It is a gross stereotype.
 
Yes how quickly we forget. On his third day in office he relased funds to overseas abortion providers. Meanwhile he waited three years to propose a jobs plan-shows you where his priorities are, doesnt it?
Let’s be fair, President Obama has already done things to address the jobs issue and is now reinitiating another effort. If “conservative” leadership in Congress has another plan, I sure wish they would present it.

Not to digress, but as I type this I am wondering about the true “conservative” ideology on creating jobs in the first place. In early American history there was quite a debate about whether the national government should even be involved with internal improvements, such as road construction, communication, etc. Now “conservatives” have joined everyone else in expecting the president to solve their job problems. In comparison it almost sounds communist! Unfortunately I don’t think people are really aware that our world is changing, many of those American jobs are not coming back.
 
“Lavish living” is not a sin in of itself and there are many Scriptural references that prove it. It is one’s attitude toward material that concerns Our Lord. It is our attachment to things and especially in context to our treatment of others, rather than our possession of things that is at issue. I think I would rather stand before God, the wealthiest and most generous of people, than the poorest and most covetous. In my experience the most generous, loving and concerned individuals I know have been the wealthiest, while the poorest have been hateful, resentful and unkind. It is an anecdotal generalization that does not hold true for all, but it proves that the simplistic view of “wealth=bad, poverty=good” is just as wrongheaded as the old Jewish assumption that wealth indicates God’s favor.

Having been raised Republican and moving in Republican circles, not once have I heard a Republican glorify wealth. It is a gross stereotype.
To pick up on some earlier comments, I think that materialistic gain is an equal opportunity temptation, affecting conservatives AND liberals. And Susan, you make a very good point above about stereotypes. On the other hand Jesus Christ himself talks frequently about the rich and the poor, and those with money often do not come out favorably.
 
“Lavish living” is not a sin in of itself and there are many Scriptural references that prove it.
First of all, I’d be interested in seeing what Scriptural passages you have in mind.

In the second place, one can “prove” a lot of things with isolated Scriptural texts. It always astounds me when Catholics, whom I expect to know better, pull out a line like that.

I think that the basic OT attitude is summed up in Proverbs 30:8-9: modest prosperity is a blessing from God and may even be spiritually beneficial inasmuch as it gives one cause for gratitude and the leisure to seek God, but excessive wealth is spiritually dangerous. Certainly the prophets have a lot to say that seems quite critical of the wealthy of their days. And the NT goes beyond this, glorifying holy poverty and consistently treating wealth as at best a snare and a temptation.

St. John Chrysostom, St. Thomas Aquinas, and many other saints have clearly taught that, at the very least, whatever wealth you have beyond a reasonable sufficiency to support you according to your station in life belongs to the poor. Of course, there’s room for a lot of debate as to what that might mean. If you’re simply saying that one should hesitate to judge that a particular person is living too lavishly and thus sinning, then I thoroughly agree. Obviously a category like “lavish living” is highly context-dependent–what are the needs of others; how far is one’s luxury harming or helping needy people; what are the legitimate social functions served by one’s luxury; etc. But if you are ruling out in principle the possibility that certain forms of lavish living might be sinful simply because of their “lavishness” in their social context, regardless of the rich person’s subjective attitude to them–then in that case, I think you’re going squarely against the Christian tradition.

Furthermore, I did not say that “lavish living” was intrinsically sinful. In fact, all *I *said was that there was a problem with a “conservative” ideology that glorifies the pursuit of wealth. Davidlamb criticized Fr. Corapi for “lavish living,” but after all, Fr. Corapi was a member of a religious order, bound to follow the counsels of perfection.

So I think David and I are on the same page (David, correct me if I’m wrong) in saying that wealth in itself is not intrinsically sinful, but that the Christian tradition has consistently held up holy poverty as an ideal and regarded wealth as spiritually dangerous. Not the same thing as sinful at all. In fact, a thing can be a good gift of God and (in a fallen state) spiritually dangerous at the same time. Sex would be another example–in fact the traditional Christian attitude to sex and to wealth is very similar.

You also ignore the Catholic distinction between venial and mortal sin in your dichotomy. I don’t think that excessive luxury (however we define that) is mortally sinful unless it involves direct injustice or callousness (like the rich man who let a poor man die at his gates while he lived in luxury in Luke 16). However, it could still be venially sinful.
It is one’s attitude toward material that concerns Our Lord. It is our attachment to things and especially in context to our treatment of others, rather than our possession of things that is at issue.
I agree that that’s the most important factor, but it’s not the only one. We aren’t disembodied souls. Bodies and bodily things matter.
I think I would rather stand before God, the wealthiest and most generous of people, than the poorest and most covetous. In my experience the most generous, loving and concerned individuals I know have been the wealthiest, while the poorest have been hateful, resentful and unkind. It is an anecdotal generalization that does not hold true for all, but it proves that the simplistic view of “wealth=bad, poverty=good” is just as wrongheaded as the old Jewish assumption that wealth indicates God’s favor.
No one has said that poverty is good. I have said that the traditional Christian ideal is holy poverty. (There is, in orthodox Christianity, no corresponding ideal of holy wealth, although there is a concept of righteous wealth.) But that’s very different from regular old poverty. Most people can’t handle poverty very well, just as most people can’t handle celibacy very well. And that’s precisely why social justice is so important and why what DavidLamb calls “right wing Conservatism” is so toxic and immoral. “Right-wing Conservatives” put a moral burden on the poor that few sinful human beings can bear. On this very thread, you see people sniffing at poor people who want some of the luxuries that most people in our society take for granted. Poor people, simply by their circumstances, are expected to live lives of heroic virtue, denying themselves all luxuries and working long hours at several jobs just in order to provide for their families and open up more opportunities for the next generation. Of course very poor people tend to be “hateful, resentful, and unkind.” They are sinful human beings put in extremely difficult circumstances.

That’s precisely why it’s important, from an orthodox Christian perspective, to have some form of “redistribution” that avoids extremes of wealth and poverty.
 
Having been raised Republican and moving in Republican circles, not once have I heard a Republican glorify wealth. It is a gross stereotype.
Haven’t you been watching any of the recent Republican debates? Haven’t you heard Michelle Bachmann talk about the glorious days when the only people allowed to immigrate were those who had some “money in their pockets” and thus could contribute to the wealth of America?

I suspect that we have a very different understanding of what “glorifying wealth” looks like.

SisterTherese, in post 935, made a very similar argument to yours–that I was caricaturing Republicans. But look at what she (sorry if the pronoun is wrong!) said:
  • From what I’ve heard, conservative republicans SUPPORT the ideals of the Founding Fathers in that property rights are essential to our economic progress. I also realize that it is the republicans who are very supportive of business and entrepreneurship, which is what is going to and has fueled our country’s economy…if we can ever recover from the state of Obama-nation.*
To me, this paragraph glorifies not just wealth (which is not what I was talking about) but, as I said, “material gain.” “Economic progress” equals “material gain.” Entrepeneurship fueling the country’s economy equals “material gain.”

You are certainly right that the Christian tradition has said that wealth can be legitimate (though I think there’s a lot more caution about it in Scripture and tradition than you acknowledge). But generally that’s been referring to inherited wealth, which is seen as a gift of God and is not consciously sought. Americans tend to think of this as the least legitimate form of wealth. Americans, particularly “conservatives,” glorify the pursuit of wealth under labels like “entrepreneurship” and “the American dream.” And that clearly is contrary to the Christian tradition. The Christian tradition holds that when you labor in your vocation it should be to glorify God, provide for your basic needs and those of your family, and serve your neighbor. It should not be directed toward an open-ended process of endless self-enrichment. Of course one can make the argument that via the “invisible hand” the pursuit of endless self-enrichment by everyone actually benefits society as a whole. But Christian ethics cares nothing for such an argument. As you said earlier, the primary Christian concern is about the spiritual state of a person–to what end is one working? A society where everyone is pursuing their own material gain and thus everyone benefits–even if that’s actually how economic laws work–is not a virtuous society.

One’s personal attitude toward wealth is not the only criterion, by any means. But it is the single most important factor to be considered. Even if it would benefit the poor for everyone to pursue wealth for themselves, that would still be wrong. Wealth is not evil. But the pursuit of wealth is intrinsically corrupting.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
Sooo, we can compare the funds which you assert he “released to overseas abortion providers” to the funds spent on military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan? Does abortion funding justify war funding, then? Or is it the other way around?
The pope himself said a Catholic could good conscience support the wars He very specifically stated such support is not morally equivalent to supporting abortion
 
To pick up on some earlier comments, I think that materialistic gain is an equal opportunity temptation, affecting conservatives AND liberals. And Susan, you make a very good point above about stereotypes. On the other hand Jesus Christ himself talks frequently about the rich and the poor, and those with money often do not come out favorably.
Often, but not always - do not forget that Nicodemus was a wealthy man and a good friend and disciple of Our Lord. It was he who donated the tomb for Christ’s body. Judging the state of one’s soul based on their net worth is no different than the Pharisees judging the adulterer - and in fact they had more cause to judge her than anyone has to judge the wealthy. Remember, thou shalt not covet is still a legitimate command, but one very easily forgotten by those who engage in class warfare.
 
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