Can you be Protestant and accept papal primacy?

[benhur]

Because God the Son, the Christ, specifically mandated that on Peter the Rock He would build His Church and none of the Apostles ever challenged Peter’s leadership because they knew that he alone held the leadership position.

Hi Abu,

Really ? Well then they showed they did not understand, for they continued to quibble as to who would be greatest, or who would sit at the Lord’s right hand. All this right after Peter is given the keys. But all agree Peter was the leader even first spokesperson.

Because Peter and the apostles were promised ALL TRUTH from God Himself [Jn 16:13] and guaranteed from God Himself that “I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Mt 28:20), which misguided mortal still wants to call God a liar?

Then I propose we be all liars for presuming just how God is guiding us till the end.

As clear as day, the Christ mandated successors.

Amen. And most churches have offices,and many actual successors. And if not I say successor is as successor does. That is, we all strive to be apostolic, to carry, to be a pillar for truth. To say you need physical lineage is OT. As we have been grafted into that Judaism branch, so the Lord continues to ingraft leaders as He chooses. It can not be institutional again, as with physical lineage, like the Jews, being circumcised, sons of Abraham. Yet even in OT God was sovereign and used a few ‘gentiles’(no lineage) converting them to His purposes

Where does that leave any opening for Christ’s own Church to teach error in dogma and doctrine on faith and morals to the whole of mankind?

Well it has happened, if even for a ‘moment’ while awaiting correction.

Anyone who sets himself up to misinterpret God’s clear foundation of His own Church opposes God.

Broad blanket. This is not like the OT where if you broke one law you really broke them all. For example, folks who are wrong on the legitimacy of the papal office are subject to judgement on that issue.

1. Jesus established HIS OWN CHURCH for ALL mankind (Post #52)

Amen.(redundant though with “His Own”)

1. None of the Apostles challenged Peter as to teaching, precisely because He was supreme leader, and they all knew it, and even Paul made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognised by, Peter (Gal 1:I8).

Paul also sought Peter and James to help with troublesome Judaizers who were under Peter and James authority. We also have no one challenging one apostle’s teaching to the other, and not just Peter’s teaching.

So from the first Peter had exercised his supreme authority in the upper room before Pentecost to have Judas’ place filled.

He was the leader. And by drawing lots ? I think Paul was the ‘replacement’.

At the first Apostolic Council of Jerusalem Peter settled the heated discussion over circumcising the gentiles and “the whole assembly fell silent” (Acts 15:7-12).

He did not call for the council, begin the discussion, end the discussion, nor make the final pronouncement. But he was their leader, and was told directly by God on the matter of gentiles (besides Paul), and may have had to repent for being two faced with the gentiles. He was very strong at the council , and faithful to what God had revealed to Him.

The apostles were a collegial community, under Peter. “By the end of the apostolic age, the bishops of the Catholic Church began meeting together on a regional basis, and with the first ecumenical council at Nicaea in 325, this co-operative activity reached worldwide proportions.” (Fr John A Hardon, S.J., The Catholic Catechism, Doubleday, 1975, p 320-321).

Well Peter was first amongst the apostles. They appointed many successors, certainly a larger number than twelve. Do not think there was always a first amongst equals thereafter amongst all the bishops, all the time. In fact, the dynamics and size of the church grew and was better served by a handful of patriarchs rather than one supreme ‘pappa’. Just was not feasible in those days with their travel, communication, and variations of culture etc…

Blessings

 

[Abu]

Benhur #59
so the Lord continues to ingraft leaders as He chooses.

The Lord established only His Catholic Church and no other. She chooses papal successors.

Well Peter was first amongst the apostles. They appointed many successors

Christ appointed Peter alone to lead His Church as so clearly established. They were all bishops and naturally appointed successor bishops.

Do not think there was always a first amongst equals thereafter amongst all the bishops, all the time.

There has never been a first among equals as Christ chose only Peter to lead His Church and no other, and all who trash history have paid the price with dissent, confusion and error.

 

[benhur]

The Lord established only His Catholic Church and no other. She chooses papal successors.

Christ appointed Peter alone to lead His Church as so clearly established. They were all bishops and naturally appointed successor bishops.

There has never been a first among equals as Christ chose only Peter to lead His Church and no other, and all who trash history have paid the price with dissent, confusion and error.

Hi Abu,

OK, we are at odds. As far as trashing history, then may I say we all trash history, only God is true, it is ‘His story’. (akin to the scripture, “let all men be liars , only God is true”). That is, by your history or mine, God is perfect and true in His ways and to His promises.

As far as the negative consequences by my way, agree. The 30,000 denominations slur has some truth to it. Yet your way is not free from negatives either, and historical papal slurs have some truth to them also.

Again, only God is clean, and by grace His Bride, His* Called Out Ones *( the Church), will be spotless. That which is good in your way and mine are by His grace, and may He praised forever more for them.

Blessings

 

[Abu]

A great Lutheran who became a great Catholic hopes for the reconciliation he made to become a reality for all Lutherans.

As a former Lutheran, convert Fr Richard John Neuhaus has said:
‘The “Body of Christ,” the “Bride of Christ,” the Church as the bride, Christ as the bridegroom, the corporate sacramental images of salvation – Cardinal Ratzinger has said, I think very insightfully, that the difference between the Protestant and the Catholic understanding of Christian existence is that, for the Protestant, faith in Christ and faith in the Church are two different questions, and most Protestants never even get to the second question

‘I would thank God if it turned out that my judgment in the late 1980s was wrong. If a hundred years from now, say, there really is an ecclesial, corporate reconciliation between Lutheranism and the Catholic Church – and if I am around the throne of grace, as I hope I will be – I will join the angels and saints in rejoicing at that, hoping that the decision I made in 1990 contributed to it. But that’s all in God’s hands, which is exactly where it should be.’
wittenburgdoorinterviews.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/door-interview-fr-richard-john-neuhaus.html