Can you be saved if you are baptized in a Catholic church but hold Lutheran theology?

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Can you be saved if you are baptized in a Catholic church and attend Catholic Masses but hold Lutheran theology?
 
HJ3822 said:
Can you be saved if you are baptized in a Catholic church and attend Catholic Masses but hold Lutheran theology?
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One who disagrees with the Catholic Church and believes in Lutheran theology vs. Catholic theology cannot receive Communion.

But the Catholic Chruch does not teach that people go to hell if they are protestant. Christ knows our hearts and He is the judge.

But someone in that situation might have some explaning to do at their judgement 😃

God Bless.
 
phil19034 said:
One who disagrees with the Catholic Church and believes in Lutheran theology vs. Catholic theology cannot receive Communion.

But the Catholic Chruch does not teach that people go to hell if they are protestant. Christ knows our hearts and He is the judge.

But someone in that situation might have some explaning to do at their judgement 😃

God Bless.
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Excellent answer. 👍
 
HJ3822 said:
Can you be saved if you are baptized in a Catholic church and attend Catholic Masses but hold Lutheran theology?
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The Lutheran Church is now divided into synods which vary greatly in their beliefs
What part of Lutheran theology do you hold, LCMS, WELS, ELCA?

Where do you stand on
1: Office of the Papacy is the Anti Christ
2: Number of Sacraments
3: Justification (did you agree with the signing of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification By the Lutheran World Federation which included the ECLA but not the LCMS and WELS)
4: Women clergy acceptable?
5: Homosexual lifestyle engaging in sex and marriage in those states that allow it?
6: Abortion as the choice of a woman?

If you share what part of Lutheran theology you hold we can better understand how far your views are from the Catholic Church. I am simply curious for I know a Lutheran Missouri Pastor.

To answer your question:

The Catholic Church does not claim to know who is saved or not. That is the judgment of God.
Do Lutherans believe you are saved if you are attending Catholic Mass but hold their theology?
Mary.
 
HJ3822 said:
Can you be saved if you are baptized in a Catholic church and attend Catholic Masses but hold Lutheran theology?
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Why would you want a foot in both camps, Luther brought his Catholic faith with him, and then changed things that did not suit him.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

I am a Jewish Convert, what would you think if I said could I be a Catholic but hold Jewish
teachings ?

Remember you have to answer to God for actions, words, thoughts and deeds.

Don’t jump in where even Angels fear to walk.
 
The funny thing about all of these replies is that it is completly contrary to what I was taught as a child. I was taught in absolutely no uncertain terms that anyone who was baptized a Catholic and became a Protestant would end up roasting in hell. Of course, this was being taught by elderly Irish Nuns many years before Vatican II.
Interesting how attitudes can change with circumstance and time!
 
MaryT777 said:
The Lutheran Church is now divided into synods which vary greatly in their beliefs
What part of Lutheran theology do you hold, LCMS, WELS, ELCA?

Where do you stand on
1: Office of the Papacy is the Anti Christ
2: Number of Sacraments
3: Justification (did you agree with the signing of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification By the Lutheran World Federation which included the ECLA but not the LCMS and WELS)
4: Women clergy acceptable?
5: Homosexual lifestyle engaging in sex and marriage in those states that allow it?
6: Abortion as the choice of a woman?

If you share what part of Lutheran theology you hold we can better understand how far your views are from the Catholic Church. I am simply curious for I know a Lutheran Missouri Pastor.
Click to expand...
Well, for starters, I am not really Christian in the first place, because I have never really been baptized. I think I got interested in Christianity about two years ago, when I noticed a couple of Christian preachers on the university campus. One preached in an exceptionally confrontational manner and attracted a mob; most preached quietly and were mostly ignored. Since last summer, I found Christianity Stack Exchange, and I loved it, because it gave me an academic outlook on the faith. I wanted to be an expert in something, and since there were not many people who were experts in Lutheranism, I decided to commit myself to one denomination: Lutheranism. For starters, I checked out a textbook called A History of Lutheranism, written by Eric W. Gritsch, and currently I am done with the first chapter - the birth of a movement. It’s really exciting and interesting, because I love listening to public lectures about history and religion at the university library as much as reading them, and I really like this Luther guy. (Despite I’m really a Neuroscience major, I have a weakness for History and Religion.) Based on the historical background of the Lutheran movement, I totally understand why Martin Luther wanted to separate from the Roman Catholic Church, and his beliefs, though heretical in eyes of the Catholic Church, make sense in his time.

Imagine that we live in Reformation era. If I had been born and raised in a wealthy Catholic German household, and had gone to university and learned Luther’s theologies, and felt drawn to the Lutheran movement than the Catholic Church, would I still be saved if I practice Lutheranism under the guise of Catholicism?

Now, let’s go back to the 21st century. Can a person hold **core **Lutheran theology (as developed by Martin Luther) in a Catholic church?
 
HJ3822 said:
Well, for starters, I am not really Christian in the first place, because I have never really been baptized. I think I got interested in Christianity about two years ago, when I noticed a couple of Christian preachers on the university campus. One preached in an exceptionally confrontational manner and attracted a mob; most preached quietly and were mostly ignored. Since last summer, I found Christianity Stack Exchange, and I loved it, because it gave me an academic outlook on the faith. I wanted to be an expert in something, and since there were not many people who were experts in Lutheranism, I decided to commit myself to one denomination: Lutheranism. For starters, I checked out a textbook called A History of Lutheranism, written by Eric W. Gritsch, and currently I am done with the first chapter - the birth of a movement. It’s really exciting and interesting, because I love listening to public lectures about history and religion at the university library as much as reading them, and I really like this Luther guy. (Despite I’m really a Neuroscience major, I have a weakness for History and Religion.) Based on the historical background of the Lutheran movement, I totally understand why Martin Luther wanted to separate from the Roman Catholic Church, and his beliefs, though heretical in eyes of the Catholic Church, make sense in his time.

Imagine that we still live in Reformation era. If I had been born and raised in a wealthy Catholic German household, and had gone to university and learned Luther’s theologies, and felt drawn to the Lutheran movement than the Catholic Church, would I still be saved if I practice Lutheranism under the guise of Catholicism?

Now, let’s go back to the 21st century. Can a person hold **core **Lutheran theology (as developed by Martin Luther) in a Catholic church?
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What an interesting journey you have had! Thanks for sharing it with us and good luck with your further studies and discernment.

What do you mean by CORE Lutheran theology? Can you share a few beliefs that you discern as core Lutheran beliefs?
That’s debatable now in Lutheran circles.
Mary.
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
Click to expand...
Well, Luther was a monk and then a priest and then a university professor.
I am a Jewish Convert, what would you think if I said could I be a Catholic but hold Jewish teachings?
Click to expand...
Jewish Catholic? Maybe a person who has Catholic theology but still keeps kosher?
 
MaryT777 said:
What an interesting journey you have had! Thanks for sharing it with us and good luck with your further studies and discernment.

What do you mean by CORE Lutheran theology? Can you share a few beliefs that you discern as core Lutheran beliefs?
That’s debatable now in Lutheran circles.
Mary.
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Just a few concepts pulled out from the book:

Luther’s Large Catechism
Luther’s Small Catechism
Distinction between “Law and Gospel”
“justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law” (Romans 3:28)
Distinction between “Grace and Law”
Sola fide
Sola gratia
Sola scriptura
Soli Deo gloria
Solus Christus
 
HJ3822 said:
Well,
It’s really exciting and interesting, because I love listening to public lectures about history and religion at the university library as much as reading them, and I really like this Luther guy. (Despite I’m really a Neuroscience major, I have a weakness for History and Religion.) Based on the historical background of the Lutheran movement, I totally understand why Martin Luther wanted to separate from the Roman Catholic Church, and his beliefs, though heretical in eyes of the Catholic Church, make sense in his time.

Imagine that we live in Reformation era. If I had been born and raised in a wealthy Catholic German household, and had gone to university and learned Luther’s theologies, and felt drawn to the Lutheran movement than the Catholic Church, would I still be saved if I practice Lutheranism under the guise of Catholicism?

?
Click to expand...
If you have not read this…then this book may be of interest to you…catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0097.html

Why Only Catholicism Can Make Protestantism Work: Louis Bouyer on the Reformation

Yet we can go further than decrying the Reformation as unnecessary. In his ground-breaking work, The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism, Louis Bouyer argued that the Catholic Church herself is necessary for the full flowering of the Reformation principles. In other words, you need Catholicism to make Protestantism work — for Protestantism’s principles fully to develop. Thus, the Reformation was not only unnecessary; it was impossible. What the Reformers sought, argues Bouyer, could not be achieved without the Catholic Church.
 
HJ3822 said:
Well, for starters, I am not really Christian in the first place, because I have never really been baptized. I think I got interested in Christianity about two years ago, when I noticed a couple of Christian preachers on the university campus. One preached in an exceptionally confrontational manner and attracted a mob; most preached quietly and were mostly ignored. Since last summer, I found Christianity Stack Exchange, and I loved it, because it gave me an academic outlook on the faith. I wanted to be an expert in something, and since there were not many people who were experts in Lutheranism, I decided to commit myself to one denomination: Lutheranism. For starters, I checked out a textbook called A History of Lutheranism, written by Eric W. Gritsch, and currently I am done with the first chapter - the birth of a movement. It’s really exciting and interesting, because I love listening to public lectures about history and religion at the university library as much as reading them, and I really like this Luther guy. (Despite I’m really a Neuroscience major, I have a weakness for History and Religion.) Based on the historical background of the Lutheran movement, I totally understand why Martin Luther wanted to separate from the Roman Catholic Church, and his beliefs, though heretical in eyes of the Catholic Church, make sense in his time.

Imagine that we live in Reformation era. If I had been born and raised in a wealthy Catholic German household, and had gone to university and learned Luther’s theologies, and felt drawn to the Lutheran movement than the Catholic Church, would I still be saved if I practice Lutheranism under the guise of Catholicism?

Now, let’s go back to the 21st century. Can a person hold **core **Lutheran theology (as developed by Martin Luther) in a Catholic church?
Click to expand...
If you are into history, go back to the time of the early church fathers. Also find out what
the Catholic Church did about correcting some of Luther’s legitimate complaints. In other
words, find out the Truth.
 
=HJ3822;11740388]Can you be saved if you are baptized in a Catholic church and attend Catholic Masses but hold Lutheran theology?
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Only God knows for sure. BUT READ Heb. 6:4-8 which applies specifically to fallen away Catholics.

There seems to ME [IMO} that once a Catholic is Baptized & Confirmed that leaving the CC is in a very powerful sense abandoning God. WHY?

Because of the Sacraments; notably the Sacramental Confession and the Most Holy Eucharist [which Is God Himself-personally’; even if denied]

If one were Baptized into the Catholic church BUT not raised in the Faith; then it would depend on what God has made that person ABLE to know about Christ and His One true Faith and Church.

If one as you indicate is a Baptized and Confirmed Catholic and then denies that faith; God has to be the Judge;** BUT ALSO has to be Fair and Just**. Unbelief in this instance is a VERY serious matter. ALL of us have a GRAVE obligation to get and to have “an informed” Conscience. TRUTH is singular per defined issue. When God makes the grace possible for one to KNOW THEE truth; God expects it to be accepted and embraced.:rolleyes:

May God guide you!
Patrick
 
pablope said:
If you have not read this…then this book may be of interest to you…catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0097.html

Why Only Catholicism Can Make Protestantism Work: Louis Bouyer on the Reformation

Yet we can go further than decrying the Reformation as unnecessary. In his ground-breaking work, The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism, Louis Bouyer argued that the Catholic Church herself is necessary for the full flowering of the Reformation principles. In other words, you need Catholicism to make Protestantism work — for Protestantism’s principles fully to develop. Thus, the Reformation was not only unnecessary; it was impossible. What the Reformers sought, argues Bouyer, could not be achieved without the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Have not read Louis Bouyer, but I would have to wholly agree the reformation could not be achieved without the Catholic Church. The Reformation (and specifically Martin Luther’s 95 theses) would not have ever occurred if the RCC had not strayed from apostolic and scriptural teachings. If not for the office of the Papacy declaring anathema gospel truths such as justification by faith alone, reforming would not have been necessary. Martin Luther did not intend to leave the church. Yet for pointing out what Popes and Priests were disregarding from scripture he was excommunicated. You and Mr. Bouyer are correct without the completely anit-christian dogmas of the RCC led by the very Anti-Christ the Pope ( not an individual but the office which usurps Christs authority) the Reformation would have been impossible because Luther and others would have nothing to reform if the church was teaching truth. I mourn that at our time my confession of belief in the Holy Catholic (Universal) Church does not include the visible church led by the Vatican. I rejoice that even in light of that, that Christ’s Church is the body of believers not the Roman Catholic Church nor Lutheran. And so I know that many RC’s hear the gospel in-spite of the heterodoxy of the Papacy, Cannon Law, and Justification by faith with works.
 
=Sola Gratia UT;11756633]Have not read Louis Bouyer, but I would have to wholly agree the reformation could not be achieved without the Catholic Church. The Reformation (and specifically Martin Luther’s 95 theses) would not have ever occurred if the RCC had not strayed from apostolic and scriptural teachings. If not for the office of the Papacy declaring anathema gospel truths such as justification by faith alone, reforming would not have been necessary. Martin Luther did not intend to leave the church. Yet for pointing out what Popes and Priests were disregarding from scripture he was excommunicated. You and Mr. Bouyer are correct without the completely anit-christian dogmas of the RCC led by the very Anti-Christ the Pope ( not an individual but the office which usurps Christs authority) the Reformation would have been impossible because Luther and others would have nothing to reform if the church was teaching truth. I mourn that at our time my confession of belief in the Holy Catholic (Universal) Church does not include the visible church led by the Vatican. I rejoice that even in light of that, that Christ’s Church is the body of believers not the Roman Catholic Church nor Lutheran. And so I know that many RC’s hear the gospel in-spite of the heterodoxy of the Papacy, Cannon Law, and Justification by faith with works.
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HOLD on there friend:)

Where precisely did the CC stray from Scripture? PLEASE be specific.

Christ personally assures that the “Gate of hell shall not prevail” Mt. 16:18 and READ John 17:14-20.

Luther issue for the 95 thesis was selling Indulgences:a a matter of** church practice**; not a doctrine and not a dogma.

Because there is BUT
One God

One God can and DOES and has always has JUST ONE set of Faith beliefs Eph. 4:4-8

And OT One Chosen People and NT One Church.

So my dear friend where in the bible does it show that God desired more than One faith? Or where does the evidence lie that shows that the CC failed?

Luthers leaving HAD nothing to do with false scripture teaching in ANY of the history I have read. So PLEASE enlighten us with FACTS.:o

Make what ever charges you wish; BUT please prove them.👍

God BLESS YOU!
Patrick
 
Pat,
I appreciate your concern with facts, if this post does not fullfill with that goal in mind let me know im long winded!!!
Well let us start with quotes from scripture. Matthew 16:18 Our Savior talks about the “Church” not being overcome by the gates of Hades/hell; and of course the grave can not overcome the Church sin, death, and the devil are nailed to the cross with Christ. But is the “Church” Christ refers to brick and mortar? Is it found in a Roman Catholic parish in Hamburg; or is it at the First Presbyterian Church in Corpus Christi, Texas; or maybe its a charismatic Pentecostal meeting hall in Salem, Oregon. If we read just before verse 18 we see a most simple statement of Gospel. Matthew 16:15-18a " ‘But what about you?’ he asked. who do you say I am?’ Simon Peter answered ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus replied, blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,". Jesus after even earlier in the chapter warning his disciples about the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees, and not being happy with their lack of understanding then calls Peter blessed (note its not because of anything he is taught by teachers of the Law, rather its his statement of faith revealed by the Father). So Peter and the rest of the disciples apart from God lack understanding. We see in verse 18 what Christ built the Church on, on Peter’s simple statement (and still a gift from the Father and not of his own accord) “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” So Peter is called blessed because he believes Jesus is the Christ. Jesus will build his church on this rock of faith. And the gates of hell will not prevail over it. So from this we can say with assurance that those who believe in Jesus like Peter are blessed, that they belong to the Church, and hell will not overcome them. Christ is the head of the Church (body) we (who believe) are its members. He is the Vine we the branches. I’m a member of “Church” by belief in the one faith, I practice my faith in every aspect of my life including inside a brick and mortar church building. From now until the day of judgement can hell overcome the church/faith in my heart? Yes, if I don’t stay connected to the life giving Word of God (Jesus) through Scriptures and Sacrament the yeast of the PHARISEES and ultimately the gates of hell may overcome that rock of faith. However the entire “Church” all those that believe will never be overcome. Interesting that when the Bible speaks of false teaching, teachers, and prophets its almost always from within the “Church” which are examples of the gates of hell overcoming an Individual’s faith if they had any to begin with. The question: is every one who says they are Catholic (universal) true believers in Christ? No, but that answer is the same for all churches including the Lutheran church I attend. The problem is if there is practice or dogma that contradicts God’s Word in the church I attend its a threat to my faith. I could attend many churches hear the gospel and receive sacraments to varying degrees. But if false doctrine is present it should be resisted, rejected, and finally avoided if all else fails. My earnest suggestion my friend would be for you to read the 95 theses (statements) Luther posted. iIf nothing more than for you to see that indulgences were one of 95 separate issues that he felt based on his study of Scripture needed some attention. Another example was just a little thing about the doctrine of justification. Moving forward I’m a member of a confessional Lutheran church body. A quote I saw once that I feel is slightly accurate is we are to Protestant to be Catholic, and to Catholic to be Protestant! I understand the distinction between tradition and practice from dogma. In fact many of the of traditions and practices are identical. Sadly my church would probably would have kept many more of them if treatment by some Catholics in the early centuries after the reformation had not made many Lutherans anti-catholic!!! The problem is when some practice becomes dogma that is contradictory to the Gospel. Show me the word priest in English, Greek, or Latin outside of the book of Hebrews (and those references are all directly to Christ). Wait the new testament says Christ is my high Priest my intercessor, apparently the Son of God failed his job therefore I need need a sinful priest to re-sacrifice him every mass to mediate for me. Wait the bible says Christ is my Prophet and King, he must have abdicated his throne and stopped dispensing grace, because there is a sinful man who sits on a throne in the Vatican who can write cannon law (infallible will of God). If we are not careful “Theokotos” Mother of God won’t be an amazing blessing she was given to bear the Christ child, but a blessing she gives by being co-mediatrix/redemptrix. Hey hold the phone I believe that is the 4th or 5th Marian dogma being lobbied for in the church. What’s next using a St. Joseph’s statuette to buy or sell a home? All kidding aside my friend when authority is taken from God and his word it is a danger to your faith, there is no check against error. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia; Grace and Peace to you from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!!
 
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