Can you convert to the Catholic faith and still believe in creationism?

[a_priori]

I am a cradle Catholic. I grew up before Vatican II. I went to Catholic schools from 1956 - 1969. I grew up in the 50s looking at dinosaurs. Creation and evolution were discussed in high school. I have degrees in anthropology which means that I have been exposed to evolution most of my life.

I am a theistic evolutionist. God is the supreme being who created all things. I have seen the evidence of God creating through the archaeolgical record and the biological record. I believe that the Hebrews were given a creation story that they could understand. What is a day to an infinite being?

But this is where we get into trouble. I was never taught that Genesis was literal - even before Vatican II. That God created the world was never, ever in doubt. But God gave us minds to understand Him and to follow Him across Creation.

This is my testimony. I have no doubt that God created the universe. The older I live and the more scientific discoveries that are published…wow! As Tielhard de Chardin (a Jesuit scientist) said “Something is afoot in the universe”. Indeed.

There is one thing that anthropologists/archaeologists cannot explain that intrigues me. We have fossil records of humans before 50,000 BC. No sign of art, religion, etc. Suddenly around 50,000 BC art appears. Cave art. Lasceaux.

I don’t have to believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I see the finger of God in His creation. There is an explosion of culture after 50,000 BC. Fiat lux! Fiat lux aeterna!

Malia…God created us. God created the universe. God gave us brains to use. I’m sorry, I’m not going to buy into a middle eastern creation myth as being literal history. God did create this wonderful, astounding, universe. And he gave us brains to use. Leave all things you have and come and follow me.

I would be unfaithful to the brothers and sisters who taught me with all those lovely Time-LIfe dinosaur books back in 1958. Evolution as an example of following the Creator. Yes, indeed.

This is the most definitive, well-articulated, reality-based posting on this subject to be found anywhere in contemporary Catholic discourse. Thank you Brotherhrolf.

 

[Shaken]

One thing I like about the Catholic Church is that it allows a lot of intellectual freedom. A Catholic is free to explore the world of ideas, is not restricted to reading only Catholic material.

Essentially, the core of belief is listed in the creeds, the Apostles’ and the Nicene. That can be used as a standard to put everything else into a realistic perspective.

 

[StAnastasia]

I just want to throw in that I am a “young earth” creationist, at the moment anyway. Was anyone else on here one?

Not I. Too deep a training in both theology and science to allow that.

 

[StAnastasia]

This offends God greatly.To be a Catholic is to submit to revealed truth, both understood and not understood, because it is revealed by God, whether it be transubstantiation, grace, or Adam and Eve.

Wait – are you saying that my refusal to believe literally in a talking snake offends God greatly?

 

[a_priori]

I just want to throw in that I am a “young earth” creationist, at the moment anyway. Was anyone else on here one?

I tried very hard to be one years ago. It just kept being the proverbial square peg in the round hole. I had to admit to myself that it just didn’t work. I respect everyone’s right to reach their own conclusions and we shouldn’t judge the quality of each other’s faith regardless of our points of view. I admire your honesty and may God bless you as you continue on your journey.

 

[StAnastasia]

I respect everyone’s right to reach their own conclusions and we shouldn’t judge the quality of each other’s faith regardless of our points of view. I admire your honesty and may God bless you as you continue on your journey.

Well said, a priori! I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen someone write that someone else “is not a real Catholic” or is “lacking in faith” for believing or disbelieving in X.

 

[StAnastasia]

I believe the prior poster meant the Human Genome Project.
…It should be noted that the probability studies coming out of the human genome project point to a probable but unprovable most recent common ancestor between 3,000 and 12,000 years ago.

Certainly not our most recent common ancestor with chimps!

 

[Shaken]

The tenets of Catholic belief are in the creed, Apostles’ or Nicene. I believe in God, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

If your understanding of creationism conflicts with that opening phrase of the Catholic belief system, then I would say, you have a problem with a sincere conversion to Catholicism.

Pray for the grace of understanding.

 

[a_priori]

The tenets of Catholic belief are in the creed, Apostles’ or Nicene. I believe in God, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

The really cool thing is that this belief is not in tension with the concept of an old Earth where evolution was involved in getting us to where we are.

 

[palmas85]

I am still waiting for an answer as to how the Catholic concept of original sin and the need for the Sacramet of Baptism to remove it fits into the theory put forth by our friend St Anastasia.

 

[ready]

CORRECTION TO LAST POST OF MINE:

I’m thinking about converting to the Catholic faith but I read in a book that most Catholics believe in evolution. I’ve also seen a few posts on here in the past that seem to kind of make fun of the Protestant belief in creationism. So I guess I have two questions. Can one convert to the Catholic faith and believe in creationism and also if the answer is yes to that question are creation believers kind of ostracized because of this belief?

Thanks for reading.

I’m Catholic and I believe in creationism. Strict evolution is clearly wrong in that it makes no allowance for God’s existence. I think natural selection occurs in nature but I have found no evidence that man descended from apes or anything like that. I just know that Genesis is written in riddle-like language but is completely sound and true - as it is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Maybe some parts of Genesis are not to be taken literally, but those parts can definitely be taken symbolically or as teaching moral truths. Of course, you can be Catholic and a creationist. Creationism isn’t just a Protestant thing, you know.

 

[a_priori]

Strict evolution is clearly wrong in that it makes no allowance for God’s existence.

I would argue that nothing in our current scientific understanding of evolutionary processes automatically rules out God.

 

[ready]

I would argue that nothing in our current scientific understanding of evolutionary processes automatically rules out God.

Then I assumed wrongly, based on the posts I’ve read from some people who put evolution at odds with the idea of creationism and a Creator-God governing the whole process. It appears that for them evolution is based on mere randomness and chance without any possibility of God’s intervention and all-guiding love involved. Besides, evolutionists believe we share common ancestry with apes, don’t they? How could Eve have come from Adam’s rib (with Adam being fully human and endowed with supernatural powers) if evolution makes our “mother” some link between an animal and a human - not a creation formed from a perfect man? Help!

 

[a_priori]

Then I assumed wrongly, based on the posts I’ve read from some people who put evolution at odds with the idea of creationism and a Creator-God governing the whole process. It appears that for them evolution is based on mere randomness and chance without any possibility of God’s intervention and all-guiding love involved. Besides, evolutionists believe we share common ancestry with apes, don’t they? How could Eve have come from Adam’s rib (with Adam being fully human and endowed with supernatural powers) if evolution makes our “mother” some link between an animal and a human - not a creation formed from a perfect man? Help!

There’s no cause for alarm. We can rest in the fact that He created everything including us. He sent His Son to die so that we could be with Him for eternity. He created us with a mind and an inherent curiosity regarding the wonderful universe He made. The things that we discover should point us to Him and not frustrate us because they don’t fit into a traditional literal hermeneutic regarding Old Testament Scripture.

Brotherhrolf said it best in post #7:

I am a cradle Catholic. I grew up before Vatican II. I went to Catholic schools from 1956 - 1969. I grew up in the 50s looking at dinosaurs. Creation and evolution were discussed in high school. I have degrees in anthropology which means that I have been exposed to evolution most of my life.

I am a theistic evolutionist. God is the supreme being who created all things. I have seen the evidence of God creating through the archaeolgical record and the biological record. I believe that the Hebrews were given a creation story that they could understand. What is a day to an infinite being?

But this is where we get into trouble. I was never taught that Genesis was literal - even before Vatican II. That God created the world was never, ever in doubt. But God gave us minds to understand Him and to follow Him across Creation.

This is my testimony. I have no doubt that God created the universe. The older I live and the more scientific discoveries that are published…wow! As Tielhard de Chardin (a Jesuit scientist) said “Something is afoot in the universe”. Indeed.

There is one thing that anthropologists/archaeologists cannot explain that intrigues me. We have fossil records of humans before 50,000 BC. No sign of art, religion, etc. Suddenly around 50,000 BC art appears. Cave art. Lasceaux.

I don’t have to believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I see the finger of God in His creation. There is an explosion of culture after 50,000 BC. Fiat lux! Fiat lux aeterna!

Malia…God created us. God created the universe. God gave us brains to use. I’m sorry, I’m not going to buy into a middle eastern creation myth as being literal history. God did create this wonderful, astounding, universe. And he gave us brains to use. Leave all things you have and come and follow me.

I would be unfaithful to the brothers and sisters who taught me with all those lovely Time-LIfe dinosaur books back in 1958. Evolution as an example of following the Creator. Yes, indeed.

 

[EnchantedEve]

I tried very hard to be one years ago. It just kept being the proverbial square peg in the round hole. I had to admit to myself that it just didn’t work. I respect everyone’s right to reach their own conclusions and we shouldn’t judge the quality of each other’s faith regardless of our points of view. I admire your honesty and may God bless you as you continue on your journey.

Thank you for your kind words. I am not hard-core about it. Your words are more charitable than that of another poster. Just part of my journey in knowledge. Question: Are you old earth now, or intelligent design leaning?

 

[ready]

Then I assumed wrongly, based on the posts I’ve read from some people who put evolution at odds with the idea of creationism and a Creator-God governing the whole process. It appears that for them evolution is based on mere randomness and chance without any possibility of God’s intervention and all-guiding love involved. Besides, evolutionists believe we share common ancestry with apes, don’t they? How could Eve have come from Adam’s rib (with Adam being fully human and endowed with supernatural powers) if evolution makes our “mother” some link between an animal and a human - not a creation formed from a perfect man? Help!

Don’t worry, I’m not stressed in the least. On the contrary, I am most eager and open to understand any opposition to my creationist views. But in my heart and intellect I know creationism is inherently incompatable with evolution which involves man descending from apes. In the Bible we read the true geneology of Jesus going back all the way to Adam. Hebrew oral tradition of their ancestry, Hebrew texts and historical archeological findings go back to support different points in this geneology. Like David’s existence, for example -he’s historical for sure. And I doubt a whole nation would be built on David as King (who’s life is of the geneology of Christ) if he and Abraham and Abraham’s ancestors were mere myth. Abraham’s ancestry goes back to Adam and all the way up to David. And so I am absolutely certain Abraham really existed too. There is no lie in the bible. And woman came from a perfect man endowed with supernatural and preternatural gifts, not from something lesser. The bible clearly states this. When I get into the 7 days of creation, I don’t have to believe a day=24 hours, as on the first day there wasn’t even a sun to mark a 24 hour day. But I am required to accept the authority of the Holy Spirit speaking through the Bible and to utterly reject evolution that involves man descending from apes. I see natural selection operating in nature, but not common ancestry with apes. I’m tired of man’s history of origin revolving around man and apes/lesser creatures as opposed to man’s Creator who made all of creation distinct and unique.

 

[ready]

And in my last post I didn’t mean to say that I just believed in the authenticity of Abraham and David’s existence. I mean to say that I accept as true and factual all of Christ’s geneology - which goes back to Adam. The Bible isn’t a lie. It’s based on the oral tradition of the Jews and written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, which can not deceive the innocent.

 

[StAnastasia]

I am still waiting for an answer as to how the Catholic concept of original sin and the need for the Sacramet of Baptism to remove it fits into the theory put forth by our friend St Anastasia.

See posts 120, 126, and 136.

 

[StAnastasia]

Then I assumed wrongly, based on the posts I’ve read from some people who put evolution at odds with the idea of creationism and a Creator-God governing the whole process.

“Creation” is a theological concept, indicating the ontological dependence of the world upon God; it is not a scientific principle at all. “Evolution” on the other hand is a scientific theory, not a theological claim. It can in no way conflict with “creation” because it is not even in the same category of concept. The confusion arises when either a religious believer or a scientist confuses creation and evolution as trying to explain the same thing, and therefore as standing in conflict.

 

[thunderballs75]

You can believe in it and still be Catholic. However, in my opinion, Creationism is ridiculous, and I think it would be ridiculous if the Church taught that Creationism were truth. No offense. I’d consider, judging by papal statements, that the Catholic Church sort of leans towards evolution. But God isn’t going to judge you about how you think the universe was made, so long as you believe He made it.