Can you go to hell without committing sin?

[Isaiah45_9]

It just occurred to me from the infant baptism/babies going to heaven thread, that I don’t remember reading a discussion about this.

Can a baby sin? How?

How about mentally disabled souls, can they sin?

Catholic Teaching on Original Sin states:

402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the “death of the soul”.291 **Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.**292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called “concupiscence”. Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

Further, Catholic teaching defines sin as follows:

II. THE DEFINITION OF SIN

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121

1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125

Further, it teaches:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

Link to the CCC section on sin.

Other posters in the above-referenced thread stated that we all deserve hell. I know I do .

But even those who have not sinned, are **deserving **of hell as well?

 

[tamedlion]

Assuming that we don’t sin is a sin of pride. We all deserve to go to hell but not everyone is going there. We have the saints to learn from them.

 

[GEddie]

The issue of babies, etc, is somewhat beside the point.

By the time you are mature enough to worry about hell, you have already sinned.

ICXC NIKA

 

[10gr8kids]

Who deserves Heaven? Even if an infant, mentally disabled person never committed sin does that mean God owes them Heaven?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Who deserves Heaven? Even if an infant, mentally disabled person never committed sin does that mean God owes them Heaven?

They don’t deserve Hell though, do they?

And even if we’ve sinned and been forgiven, do we deserve heaven? Yet God has said He’ll give us heaven if we believe and obey His Son.

 

[10gr8kids]

They don’t deserve Hell though, do they?

And even if we’ve sinned and been forgiven, do we deserve heaven? Yet God has said He’ll give us heaven if we believe and obey His Son.

Idk what happens to the unbaptized, I just know that God is the Creator and can do what He wants with His creation. He doesn’t owe us anything, that is why we depend on His mercy. I have placed the souls of my unbaptized children in His hands and pray that He has mercy on their souls, and have hope of meeting them one day in Heaven.

 

[JustaServant]

The things you people argue about…
Reminds me of my days in fundamentalism.
God is love, and mercy, and goodness, and the author of life.
End of discussion.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The things you people argue about…
Reminds me of my days in fundamentalism.
God is love, and mercy, and goodness, and the author of life.
End of discussion.

The OP is Orthodox and denies the doctrine of original sin.

 

[JustaServant]

The OP is Orthodox and denies the doctrine of original sin.

Aware of that.
It just reminds me of the endless arguing of Reformed Calvinists, who believe people are predestined to Hell, and that includes babies as well.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Assuming that we don’t sin is a sin of pride. We all deserve to go to hell but not everyone is going there. We have the saints to learn from them.

We of course have sinned. But what about unborn babies, babies, mentally disabled people?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

The OP is Orthodox and denies the doctrine of original sin.

I am not Orthodox. I sure don’t understand the doctrine of original sin.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

They don’t deserve Hell though, do they?

And even if we’ve sinned and been forgiven, do we deserve heaven? Yet God has said He’ll give us heaven if we believe and obey His Son.

Right.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

This is were the theology of LIMBO comes from. Because we are all born to sin and without baptize to cleanse us of sin we can not enter Heaven. However, in the case of an unbaptized infant they have committed not sin of their own, so not deserving of the eternal punishment of Hell, thus they are in LIMBO. Or maybe a better way of saying it is that we must pray for them and rely the infinite mercy of God.

 

[10gr8kids]

Right.

You haven’t answered the question here, or in the aforementioned thread, “Do they DESERVE heaven?”

So can I assume you stop short of saying they do deserve heaven? If this is the case, we might all just be going around in circles. Kind of like faith without works is dead vs if I don’t do works, I really don’t have faith.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread or the other say unbaptized babies go directly to hell. Only that we have to entrust them to Gods mercy.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

You haven’t answered the question here, or in the aforementioned thread, “Do they DESERVE heaven?”

This is not the subject of the OP is it?

But to address your question, they don’t deserve heaven inasmuch as they don’t deserve hell.

To deserve is to do something that grants a reward or a punishment. We know not one of us can deserve heaven.

So can I assume you stop short of saying they do deserve heaven? If this is the case, we might all just be going around in circles. Kind of like faith without works is dead vs if I don’t do works, I really don’t have faith.

My comment is from other posters saying that we **all **deserve hell. They made no exceptions.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread or the other say unbaptized babies go directly to hell. Only that we have to entrust them to Gods mercy.

They implied they deserve hell.

 

[Indifferently]

Sin isn’t just something we do, it’s something we are. Everyone deserves to go to hell - election is purely an act of God’s grace and mercy.

 

[10gr8kids]

This is not the subject of the OP is it?

As much on topic as do babies deserve to go to hell in previous thread.

But to address your question, they don’t deserve heaven inasmuch as they don’t deserve hell.

To deserve is to do something that grants a reward or a punishment. We know not one of us can deserve heaven.

My comment is from other posters saying that we **all **deserve hell. They made no exceptions.

They implied they deserve hell.

I had assumed you’d implied they deserved heaven. I guess we should make sure we understand eachother.

 

[Kurisu35712]

While (I think) I understand the assertion that all of us deserve Hell, I still can’t help but feel that, even if the information itself is correct, it’s being phrased in a way that is easily misinterpreted. At least without the following clarifications.

While we are imperfect and thus incapable and unworthy of Heaven on our own, I feel like to say we all deserve Hell implies that God created us for us to be condemned, which is where a lot of people’s misconceptions about this topic come from. We are all made in God’s image and likeness, whether we are an unbaptized infant, baptized infant, a canonized Saint, or a sinner in a state of mortal sin. None of us were created to end up in Hell. To the contrary, each and every one of us were created to share in an eternal life with God in Heaven, and were created not only to love and serve Him, but to be loved by and perfected in Him. To say we are all deserving of Hell may be… accurate, considering our collective fallen state. But the meaning conveyed by those words is not.

Saying we are all deserving of Hell implies to many that humans are not good, which is incorrect. Humans are God’s most cherished creation, and the reason we cannot enter Heaven on our own is because we were not created to be able to do anything on our own. God made us to need Him. While we may be deserving of Hell, it must also be emphasized that we are made to be made perfect, and we are created to be with God. His will is not for us to end up in Hell. That is the result of us following our own will over His.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I am not Orthodox. I sure don’t understand the doctrine of original sin.

My apologies. You have taken the Orthodox position in so many threads, I mistook you for EO.

What Church are you a member of?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

While (I think) I understand the assertion that all of us deserve Hell, I still can’t help but feel that, even if the information itself is correct, it’s being phrased in a way that is easily misinterpreted. At least without the following clarifications.

While we are imperfect and thus incapable and unworthy of Heaven on our own, I feel like to say we all deserve Hell implies that God created us for us to be condemned,

This is exactly as some people are coming across, which is completely against Catholic teaching, nonetheless. There is no double predestination in Catholic theology.

which is where a lot of people’s misconceptions about this topic come from. We are all made in God’s image and likeness, whether we are an unbaptized infant, baptized infant, a canonized Saint, or a sinner in a state of mortal sin. None of us were created to end up in Hell. To the contrary, each and every one of us were created to share in an eternal life with God in Heaven, and were created not only to love and serve Him, but to be loved by and perfected in Him. To say we are all deserving of Hell may be… accurate, considering our collective fallen state. But the meaning conveyed by those words is not.

Saying we are all deserving of Hell implies to many that humans are not good, which is incorrect. Humans are God’s most cherished creation, and the reason we cannot enter Heaven on our own is because we were not created to be able to do anything on our own. God made us to need Him. While we may be deserving of Hell, it must also be emphasized that we are made to be made perfect, and we are created to be with God. His will is not for us to end up in Hell. That is the result of us following our own will over His.

This is my understanding as well. I could not say it as eloquently as you