Can you go to hell without committing sin?

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yateanieys said:
I’m not sure how an infant can blaspheme something it has no concept of.
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Im certainly not sure how either 😉

But maybe its possible for the soul to have contempt or enmity which it clings to because of its nature. Its not a concept who comes to us, but a person. When it comes to this topic, I guess my only reliance is that we know God is just and mercifull. I just dont care for extreme views or those who claim an absolute knowledge of the matter. 👍
 
10gr8kids said:
Who deserves Heaven? Even if an infant, mentally disabled person never committed sin does that mean God owes them Heaven?
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Who deserves heaven? No one. But although God owes no one nothing, he does hold these people very close to his heart, and they would be considered Saints, so yep, heaven it is.

Because as long as they did not commit actual sin, which they could not, and as long as they accept Jesus in their heart, they are in.
 
rinnie said:
Who deserves heaven? No one. But although God owes no one nothing, he does hold these people very close to his heart, and they would be considered Saints, so yep, heaven it is.

Because as long as they did not commit actual sin, which they could not, and as long as they accept Jesus in their heart, they are in.
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I agree. So does Gods invisible grace apply to them? Perhaps. Because they are already offered the gift from Jesus. But are they able to reject Him?
 
rcwitness said:
I agree. So does Gods invisible grace apply to them? Perhaps. Because they are already offered the gift from Jesus. But are they able to reject Him?
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Yes because we all have free will. Remember we do not know the minds of other humans but God does.

Although a child has a mind of a child, they have a mind. When do we truly have minds? I suppose at the same time we have a soul.

Remember Jesus know what we will do before we do it. Any age. Any person.
 
rcwitness said:
But maybe its possible for the soul to have contempt or enmity which it clings to because of its nature.
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Holy moley, you just made my mind reel :bigyikes:
Is a soul born? or is there some sort of spiritual placeholder that releases the moment of conception? I’m not suggesting reincarnation or anything, but still sticking with the one soul to one body frame of mind, when is a soul “born” exactly? Furthermore, is that soul born with spiritual knowledge that the body has to grow into in order to understand? or does the soul mature as the body matures?

my head hurts…
 
yateanieys said:
Holy moley, you just made my mind reel :bigyikes:
Is a soul born? or is there some sort of spiritual placeholder that releases the moment of conception? I’m not suggesting reincarnation or anything, but still sticking with the one soul to one body frame of mind, when is a soul “born” exactly? Furthermore, is that soul born with spiritual knowledge that the body has to grow into in order to understand? or does the soul mature as the body matures?

my head hurts…
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hey yateanieys,

I jumped into this thread, and maybe it was a mistake :p. I tried to express some ideas, but acknowledging, as the Church has, that it is in Gods hands.

I believe the soul of a person is created at the moment of conseption. I lean towards believing that all souls who die before an age of reason are in a certain grace from the Lord, but feel that this may be my wishfull thinking. its possible these souls, not entirely unlike the rest of us, must choose to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior. And in that, some may not.

Once again, I choose to join the Church in the hope, prayer that these are given the grace to love their creator. But then, who are we to ask the Lord to be gracious? I dont expect Jesus to be moved by my prayer. I am such a fool, really. Just struggling to work out my own salvation.

So we can understandably believe that Jesus is able to give the sufficient grace to all who He comes to. That is as much as I can be absolutely sure of! 👍
 
There is an important distinction that not everyone who goes to heaven receives an equal reward and not everyone who goes to hell receives equal punishment. This is alluded to by our Lord in his parable of the talents: “And that servant who knew the will of his lord, and prepared not himself, and did not according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.” (Luke 12:47-48)

This is the basis of St. Augustine’s famous statements that the unbaptized infants in hell suffer the least of all the fires. They do not have any claim to eternal life, but they have no sins to be punished for. But if they don’t go to heaven, they must go to hell.

There is also the necessity of grace for eternal life. “Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” If infants do not receive this new birth, then of course they cannot enter heaven. It is possible that infants can be sanctified in the womb (such as the Virgin Mary and Jeremias) or I grant that it is possible what Feeneyites often say that an angel could secretly baptize someone at the hour of their death, but the established means of sanctification by Christ is the sacrament of baptism. It wouldn’t be right to presume that all infants are assuredly as privileged as the Mother of God.

There is also what St. Paul says in Romans 6 about the Fall. For example, “But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come.” It seems to me that this certainly applies to infants then.

I am inclined to say that unbaptized infants go to hell but they suffer no punishment (basically the idea of limbo). I also acknowledge it is possible that God can sanctify them in extraordinary ways.

I strongly recommend reading this if you haven’t already.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html
 
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