Can you have a homosexual relationship but abstain?

[jmcrae]

I’ve had lots of people telling me that I should talk to a priest…an ‘orthodox’ priest…

By “orthodox” they just mean a priest who is not afraid of what you will think of him - someone who will speak the truth to you in a loving way, without either passing any kind of a judgement on you, or telling you what he thinks you want to hear.

Is it that they feel a protestant or ‘other’ vicar/priest might not offer the right guidance?

And yes, we are assuming a Catholic priest in the Roman rite.

 

[goofyjim]

I consider myself homosexual by nature yet for finances sake share expenses with a amle roommate. There is nothing between us and I do not consider it sin. Does anyone out there ever think about how difficult it is to bear the expenses alone when most of the jobs are too low paying to afford an apartment on one’s own? Besides in an emergency I would like somone there to contact the authorities. This is another reason why I don’t live alone. As for the homosexual orientation by itself being disordered, I sort of have a disagreement with that. I feel it is the way God intended me to be for whatever reason.

 

[Loren_1of6]

You question is one that everyone can ask, regardless of our station in life. God calls each of us to chastity. That looks different in different vocations: married persons only engage in intercourse with their spouse (and then for the right reasons), consecrated or ordained persons give up their right to physical intimacy, and those who have not yet discerned a vocation are expected to abstain completely until they get married. Homosexuals are not the only persons expected by the Church to remain pure.

On a different level, love is about working for what is best for the other. Would you want to put someone you love in the position of choosing to sin? You wouldn’t encourage a friend to rob a bank, you wouldn’t even sit back quietly while your friend was making this choice. You would tell your friend not to this because it would hurt so many people, including your friend. It would be wrong.

Living in a homosexual relationship has the same effect. In this situation, you are letting your friend struggle with the question of “how far is too far?” You are making her share responsibility for your actions. You are putting both your friend and yourself in a position that makes choosing sin very easy.

As has been mentioned earlier, heterosexuals have to question friendships with those of the opposite sex while homosexuals sre struggling with same sex friendships. We all have to draw the line somewhere, for our sakes and the sakes of those we love. None of us wants to lead others into sin, so we make choices to sacrifice things that we want in exchange for the One our friends, husbands, children, sisters, parents, etc. truly need.

 

[Mommyof02green]

I can promise you, this isn’t the case for most people. I have often had to reject men, I just feel like that is not an option

I supose many of the comments people have said have hit a theme… that I’m trying to find a happy medium that keeps everyone happy, I don’t know how do-able that is…

I don’t understand what you mean by the call lol… I think it’s a cultural barrier

One thing I would say is that I think it’s unimaginable that someone should never have any feelings of attraction… ever…
is it wrong for a heterosexual person to have feelings of attraction for people they are not married to? I haven’t answered lots of people asking about definitions. I seem ambiguous sometimes as I’m not sure of myself yet… so take it as you interpret it

take care of yourselves,
Sarah

The attractions themselves are not wrong, it what a person does with them that’s the problem.

If a heterosexual person found a person he/she was not married to attractive…fine…no problem.

However, the problem starts if the person had “lustful” thoughts about the person.

There would be problems if the person passionately kissed the person she/he was not married too, along with other intimate things.

Somebody mention courage. Here is their web-page: couragerc.net/index.html

 

[Danielmeola]

**In reference to Goofy Jim’s statement “that God intended for you to be that way.” ** It is not true or held by the Catholic Church… when the Catholic Church says that the orietantion is disorded they mean exactly that it was not a part of God’s order or plan. Surely, we all face difficulties that arise that God allows that God uses as a part of his plan but He did want them this includes homosexual orientations amongst many other struggles. Again like other people have stated this is not a judgement on the person or the orientation just the actions which are disordered. Certainly this is a cross that can lead you to a deeper faith,but, these homosexual orientations is not what God wants or intends in the end.

I think an adequate reading of scripture is useful here to deem what is or isn’t God’s plan along with tradition/teaching of the church…But, I will suffice here with just scripture for my protestant brothers… throughout the whole of scripture God supports consistently marriage (of a man and a woman) and usually uses the analogy of marriage constantly throughout scripture in reference to God’s plan. Scripture begins and ends in a marriage analogy! That is Genesis and Revelation end in Marriage in the Lord! For a very detailed analysis of this see Pope John Paul II’s “Man and Woman He Created Them” or formerly known as “Theology of the Body.” So, if homosexual orientation was intended in God’s plan why does scripture not promote this lifestyle or rather asserts Marriage as being important? It seems marriage between man and woman is what is intended and held up consistently throughout the whole and this is the order God wanted!

Also, there are numerous instances that scripture condemns homosexual practices (again not persons since we were all created in the image and likeness of God just actions) those scripture verses are Lev 18: 22; Rom. 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6: 9-10; I Tim. 1; Gen. 18-19; Is. 9:3,9; Ez. 16:46-51; Jer 12:14. Now, some will discount these arguments saying that this homosexual activity occurs in cultic activity and that is what is being condemned not the kind of homosexuality we have today. But, these biblical hermeneutics fail against texts like Leviticus, Romans, and Corinthians in which they are clearly not talking about cultic practices but homosexuality actions in general and this could include homosexual activities in committed relationships. This is bad hermeneutics and it is bad hermeneutics to reduce these texts to only a historical contex as well… lets look at at the whole of scripture which definately affirms marriage and speaks about the wrongness of homosexuality actions.

Now, of course scripture also condemns hate and any discrimination too. So, no Gay-bashing shold be tolerated. Thus, we should not hate or discriminate our homosexual brethren who are struggling with this but we cannot condone such actions either as part of God’s plan so I say this in loving concern. I pray you can meditate on these scriptures and come to truth about God’s plan, I know that this orientation seems out of your control, but with God anything is possible, I truly believe this (Phil. 4:13)…please I encourage you to pray hard and meditate on these verses to see what God has planned for you no matter how hard and to try to go to that that group above listed called Courage… it’s a great network for people struggling with homosexual tendencies. Know you will be in my prayers and that my heart goes out to you as I have a few friends that struggle with this very problem too.

PS- Another great document to read is the CDF’s 1986 letter “Letter to bishops of the Catholic Church on the pastoral care of homosexual persons”

And to the original question can you have a homosexual relationship but abstain? Again homosexual actions are wrong not orientation. So, I suppose you can live if you abstain from all the homosexual actions. But, is this possible…lets move beyond what is right and see what will lead to the best flourishing of your relationship with God… if you consistently sin or sin at all maybe it is best to leave… this may be a difficult decision but remember the Christian life doesn’t go around the cross but through the cross. So, sacrifice will be a part of all our lives not just yours but mine too. I will be called to make great sacrifices too perhaps in equal weight perhaps not but it certainly is something I have to be open too. I pray you will be too. In my prayers.

 

[Abira]

thanks to everyone. You’ve given me a lot to think about

 

[goofyjim]

**In reference to Goofy Jim’s statement “that God intended for you to be that way.” **It is not true or held by the Catholic Church… when the Catholic Church says that the orietantion is disorded they mean exactly that it was not a part of God’s order or plan. Surely, we all face difficulties that arise that God allows that God uses as a part of his plan but He did want them this includes homosexual orientations amongst many other struggles. Again like other people have stated this is not a judgement on the person or the orientation just the actions which are disordered. Certainly this is a cross that can lead you to a deeper faith,but, these homosexual orientations is not what God wants or intends in the end.

I think an adequate reading of scripture is useful here to deem what is or isn’t God’s plan along with tradition/teaching of the church…But, I will suffice here with just scripture for my protestant brothers… throughout the whole of scripture God supports consistently marriage (of a man and a woman) and usually uses the analogy of marriage constantly throughout scripture in reference to God’s plan. Scripture begins and ends in a marriage analogy! That is Genesis and Revelation end in Marriage in the Lord! For a very detailed analysis of this see Pope John Paul II’s “Man and Woman He Created Them” or formerly known as “Theology of the Body.” So, if homosexual orientation was intended in God’s plan why does scripture not promote this lifestyle or rather asserts Marriage as being important? It seems marriage between man and woman is what is intended and held up consistently throughout the whole and this is the order God wanted!

Also, there are numerous instances that scripture condemns homosexual practices (again not persons since we were all created in the image and likeness of God just actions) those scripture verses are Lev 18: 22; Rom. 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6: 9-10; I Tim. 1; Gen. 18-19; Is. 9:3,9; Ez. 16:46-51; Jer 12:14. Now, some will discount these arguments saying that this homosexual activity occurs in cultic activity and that is what is being condemned not the kind of homosexuality we have today. But, these biblical hermeneutics fail against texts like Leviticus, Romans, and Corinthians in which they are clearly not talking about cultic practices but homosexuality actions in general and this could include homosexual activities in committed relationships. This is bad hermeneutics and it is bad hermeneutics to reduce these texts to only a historical contex as well… lets look at at the whole of scripture which definately affirms marriage and speaks about the wrongness of homosexuality actions.

Now, of course scripture also condemns hate and any discrimination too. So, no Gay-bashing shold be tolerated. Thus, we should not hate or discriminate our homosexual brethren who are struggling with this but we cannot condone such actions either as part of God’s plan so I say this in loving concern. I pray you can meditate on these scriptures and come to truth about God’s plan, I know that this orientation seems out of your control, but with God anything is possible, I truly believe this (Phil. 4:13)…please I encourage you to pray hard and meditate on these verses to see what God has planned for you no matter how hard and to try to go to that that group above listed called Courage… it’s a great network for people struggling with homosexual tendencies. Know you will be in my prayers and that my heart goes out to you as I have a few friends that struggle with this very problem too.

PS- Another great document to read is the CDF’s 1986 letter “Letter to bishops of the Catholic Church on the pastoral care of homosexual persons”

quote]

God intended this cross for me because he knew I could handle it. I am not sinning by sharing expenses. I would only be sinning if I entered a relationship. I’m beginning to hate this ridiculous theory that homosexually oriented men have to live alone. They seem to be damned for living with the opposite sex because that would be temptation for anyone and if they admit to having a homosexual orientation they are damned for living with somone of the same sex. Let’s cut them a break one way or the other.

 

[Dale_M]

God intended this cross for me because he knew I could handle it. I am not sinning by sharing expenses.

Yes, only the persons in such a relationship would know if it constitutes an occasion to sin, and thus is something to be avoided. We shouldn’t be passing judgement when we are not fully aware of the circumstances.

goofyjim:

I’m beginning to hate this ridiculous theory that homosexually oriented men have to live alone.

In his encyclical Deus Caritas est (God is Love), Pope Benedict makes clear that humans are social by nature and need loving relationships.
Pope Benedict:

…love of neighbour is a path that leads to the encounter with God, and that closing our eyes to our neighbour also blinds us to God.

link

 

[Ace86]

God is Love = agape, not eros. And we are called to love the Holy Trinity with agape. At the same time, we are called to love our neighbor (of any sex) not with romantic love, but with agape. It’s more than romance or sex. It’s more than even brotherly love (philia). I think the original poster needs to look in her heart, and see what kind of love she has for her friends. If you love them with a pure love, agape, would you sacrifice yourself for them? Are you willing to die to save their lives? Or are you only longing for them to love you? St. Francis of Assisi said that it’s better to love, than to be loved. It’s also much more fulfilling.

 

[wcknight]

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals must abstain from homosexual behavior, but I don’t think it says anything about maintaining a relationship.

Personally I think it would be very difficult if not impossible for any serious couple living together to completely abstain from sexual behavior. Part of the reason why couples get together is the mutual attraction for one another. To be in the same household and not be able to be intimate ever would be incredibly difficult, especially for young folks. The Catholic Church teaches that we should avoid the near occasions for sin, and putting two people who love each other in a SS household is asking for trouble.

I could not imagine living with my wife and not be able to be intimate with her. That would be horrendous especially when we were young. For us older folks, it would be tough but not nearly as difficult.

 

[tequilamac]

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals must abstain from homosexual behavior, but I don’t think it says anything about maintaining a relationship.

Personally I think it would be very difficult if not impossible for any serious couple living together to completely abstain from sexual behavior. Part of the reason why couples get together is the mutual attraction for one another. To be in the same household and not be able to be intimate ever would be incredibly difficult, especially for young folks. The Catholic Church teaches that we should avoid the near occasions for sin, and putting two people who love each other in a SS household is asking for trouble.

I could not imagine living with my wife and not be able to be intimate with her. That would be horrendous especially when we were young. For us older folks, it would be tough but not nearly as difficult.

I can’t help but wonder how this is different from living in adultery but abstaining? If I live with my boyfriend in an unmarried state but appearing to be married and behaving as if we are married in all things except sex- well…I don’t know about now but when I was growing up that was considered adultery. Because of the motive and intention which was to behave as married people although our relationship was illicit.
Maybe now it is different. Maybe in the case of the homosexual, it isn’t adultery. I don’t know what the Church teaches on that.
But I’m not sure that intention no longer enters into it. If I insist on living with say a married man, even though we do not have sex but we love each other as man and wife is that not addultery? If it is it should be the same for homosexuals, shouldn’t it? And if we are going to say that it is okay for homosexuals to live together like a married couple just as long as they abstain from sex, isn’t that still adultery? All three situations can be seen as a detraction from the meaning and sanctity of marriage.

 

[wcknight]

Two people living together is not adultery. Adultery occurs when people are married, and one cheats on the other. Two people, both unmarried may be guilty of fornication IF they engage in sex.

IF they abstain, they may be guilty of putting themselves at risk, and it is immoral to set up house as if they are married, but it can hardly be considered adultery,

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’ll maybe go into this if anyone asks but there’s not enough space here lol

erm… I was thinking about my life in the long term and I was wondering what position is taken when looking at homosexual relationships that abstained from sex…

I don’t know if it is possible but I have felt lately that my personal issues kind of drove a wedge between me and religion and only lately am I thinking about everything again…

I feel as though I can’t think about myself and religion at the same time, like they have to be seperate…and so this question came to me today. I’d be really grateful for anyone’s views on it.

thanks, Sarah

The Church says that according to natural law Homosexual attraction is disordered, not ordered to the natural law of procreation. A “brotherly” relationship is acceptable. A celibate Homosexual relationship does not involve sexual sin but is still disordered. Any single and celibate Catholic, free of mortal sin is always welcome to receive the Sacraments.

 

[mercygate]

I’ll maybe go into this if anyone asks but there’s not enough space here lol

erm… I was thinking about my life in the long term and I was wondering what position is taken when looking at homosexual relationships that abstained from sex…

I don’t know if it is possible but I have felt lately that my personal issues kind of drove a wedge between me and religion and only lately am I thinking about everything again…

I feel as though I can’t think about myself and religion at the same time, like they have to be seperate…and so this question came to me today. I’d be really grateful for anyone’s views on it.

thanks, Sarah

You sound like a very sensitive, intelligent, and thoughtful person, who is struggling to respond to the Holy Spirit in the most loving and perfect way. May God reward your sincerity.

I hope you can resolve this with a measure of peace and personal satisfaction. Do you have a Courage Apostolate near you? They are skilled in handling these questions.

 

[Danielmeola]

Dear Goofy Jim,
I’m sorry if you thought that I was implying that you are sinning merely living together or that you should live alone. What I meant at the end of my message with saying going beyond right and wrong is that I meant if a relationship is causing you to sin even occassionaly then you should leave it. I am not implying that you have to live alone or that you are sinning in your friendship just by merely living there. Only you are capable in determining whether you should live apart from this person so you can satisfy your relationship with God which comes before all other relationshipos.
It is true to what you say that God does not want you to be alone, he even says in Genesis that it is not good for man to be alone. This is true and I think even if you do not live with another person that I would hope you are not alone. I would hope that you would still have friends, a support group, a supportive parish, family etc. I know many people that are single and don’t live with anyone that live a happy and satisfying life. It is a cross on some days I know for them but they are genuinely happy because being single enables them to give of themselves more to a community in service etc. Now, okay I am not advocating that you leave this person, again only you know. I just want to show you that not living with another person does not mean your alone. Also, I clearly want to say to just do what is best for your relationship with God, that is what He is asking us and only you know what that means. It may be perfectly fine for you to stay in that place just sharing expenses, I have no idea I was just saying do what is best for your relationship with God. May God be with you and I’m sorry if this has caused any pain or hard feelings. I will say more prayers for you brother. I don’t just speak to you but to everyone who is going through a similarily hard time to try to understand. May they come to understanding as we all should of God’s deep plan for us.

 

[Ace86]

A “brotherly” relationship is acceptable. A celibate Homosexual relationship does not involve sexual sin but is still disordered.

What exactly constitutes a “celibate” homosexual relationship?? You mean if two people of the same sex are sexually attracted to each other, and become “friends” but abstain from sexual acts?

 

[tequilamac]

What exactly constitutes a “celibate” homosexual relationship?? You mean if two people of the same sex are sexually attracted to each other, and become “friends” but abstain from sexual acts?

Yes. The same as two heterosexual people living together but refraining from sex. Such as your college roommate in the dorm or the person you shared your first aprtment with, etc.

 

[CRW]

I’ll maybe go into this if anyone asks but there’s not enough space here lol

erm… I was thinking about my life in the long term and I was wondering what position is taken when looking at homosexual relationships that abstained from sex…

I don’t know if it is possible but I have felt lately that my personal issues kind of drove a wedge between me and religion and only lately am I thinking about everything again…

I feel as though I can’t think about myself and religion at the same time, like they have to be seperate…and so this question came to me today. I’d be really grateful for anyone’s views on it.

thanks, Sarah

Inclination is not a sin; to exercise the inclination is.