Can you help me prove that homosexuality is unnatural and is a disorder?

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WesleyF

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I have drawn myself into a debate on facebook. It all started with a friend of mine posting something like “equal rights for gays…being gay is not a disease or a choice…” and then further asking to “Copy and Paste this to your profile and spread it…”.

I commented, saying, “I think being gay is a psychological disorder. I have no problem in accepting a gay person. I would just not want him to remain that way.”

To which she replied, “ummm i understand your feelings but i hope u understand that being gay is not a disorder.”

I replied back - “I firmly believe it is a disorder. Consider Darwin’s theory of survival of the species. What does it say? It says that the species evolves to ensure its survival. How does being gay help in the survival of the human race? Gay people cannot reproduce and therefore cannot help the human race in surviving. Therefore, by Darwin’s theory, it is unnatural.”

Could someone provide me with sources which show that homosexuality is not natural or is a disorder?
 
  1. Homosexuality exists in many species, including humans. It appears to be pretty much the same percentage of the population, regardless of culture, religion or other external factors. In other words, it appears to be a naturally occurring variation in sexuality. Over time, more and more evidence has been accumulating that homosexuality is largely determined biologically, though this is not yet conclusive. It is known that homosexuality as a sexual orientation is not volitional. It is not a choice.
  2. Psychiatrists and psychologists agree that they were wrong when they considered homosexuality to be a disorder. It has not been considered so for about 30 years now.
I hope this helps you to find the truth in the matter.
 
FOFEBA said:
  1. Homosexuality exists in many species, including humans. It appears to be pretty much the same percentage of the population, regardless of culture, religion or other external factors. In other words, it appears to be a naturally occurring variation in sexuality. Over time, more and more evidence has been accumulating that homosexuality is largely determined biologically, though this is not yet conclusive. It is known that homosexuality as a sexual orientation is not volitional. It is not a choice.
Click to expand...
Eating their young also exist in many species, as well as killing each other for dominance. The desire for violence also appears in pretty much the same percentage of the population regardless of culture, religion or other factors. In other words, violence is something that occurs naturally. Therefore we should legalize murder and physical assault.

I hope this helps you find the truth in the matter.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Eating their young also exist in many species, as well as killing each other for dominance. The desire for violence also appears in pretty much the same percentage of the population regardless of culture, religion or other factors. In other words, violence is something that occurs naturally. Therefore we should legalize murder and physical assault.

I hope this helps you find the truth in the matter.
Click to expand...
No need to be sarcastic and hostile, Fofeba raises a good point. Basically, we cannot deny that homosexuality is natural, you even say so in your post. While I do believe gay sex and marriage is wrong, you’re definitely going about it the wrong way in comparing it to murder and physical assault. You’re not going to sway anyone to our argument with that sort of inflammatory language.

The truth is, homosexuality is not a disorder, and it is not unnatural. It is not a choice. We should not discriminate against anyone who identifies themselves as a homosexual. HOWEVER, this does not mean we should condone homosexual sex or marriage. The reason that it is wrong is because the reason God instituted marriage and gave us sexual identities is for procreation, which is not possible through homosexuality.
 
WesleyF said:
I have drawn myself into a debate on facebook. It all started with a friend of mine posting something like “equal rights for gays…being gay is not a disease or a choice…” and then further asking to “Copy and Paste this to your profile and spread it…”.

I commented, saying, “I think being gay is a psychological disorder. I have no problem in accepting a gay person. I would just not want him to remain that way.”

To which she replied, “ummm i understand your feelings but i hope u understand that being gay is not a disorder.”

I replied back - “I firmly believe it is a disorder. Consider Darwin’s theory of survival of the species. What does it say? It says that the species evolves to ensure its survival. How does being gay help in the survival of the human race? Gay people cannot reproduce and therefore cannot help the human race in surviving. Therefore, by Darwin’s theory, it is unnatural.”

Could someone provide me with sources which show that homosexuality is not natural or is a disorder?
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Good luck with that. Sounds like you have a winning hand there… :rolleyes:
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be whit You.
This question is always waiting for us somewhere. I don’t think nobody can for sure explain why some people are sexually interested in people in their own sex. I see no reason to argue about it,You know what the Church say,and You must hold on to that,and pray that those who are homosexual live in celibacy.
I am strongly against arguing and people trying to be right,I have a feeling,and this is not against You,but in all matters we face,that it is not importen in what we are right about,but that we ARE right. We all wants to be winners,but as long the only goal is to be right,it is not importen. We need to learn also to be wrong. (This is NOT to be seen me accepting homosexulality as such,I do understand,but I strongly advise those who are,should live in celibacy) To be wrong is a hard thing to learn,but we must be humble,and accept that we can not always be right,cause we can’t.
 
duffyk4 said:
No need to be sarcastic and hostile, Fofeba raises a good point. Basically, we cannot deny that homosexuality is natural, you even say so in your post. While I do believe gay sex and marriage is wrong, you’re definitely going about it the wrong way in comparing it to murder and physical assault. You’re not going to sway anyone to our argument with that sort of inflammatory language.

The truth is, homosexuality is not a disorder, and it is not unnatural. It is not a choice. We should not discriminate against anyone who identifies themselves as a homosexual. HOWEVER, this does not mean we should condone homosexual sex or marriage. The reason that it is wrong is because the reason God instituted marriage and gave us sexual identities is for procreation, which is not possible through homosexuality.
Click to expand...
Nobody is born gay. There is no gay gene.
Anyone who is gay is so due to one or more of upbringing, environment and choice.
The Church teaches homosexual activity (i.e. sexually active homosexual) is disordered. Any Catholic who rejects this is committing heresy.

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.** Under no circumstances can they be approved. **
 
ConstantineTG said:
Eating their young also exist in many species, as well as killing each other for dominance. The desire for violence also appears in pretty much the same percentage of the population regardless of culture, religion or other factors. In other words, violence is something that occurs naturally. Therefore we should legalize murder and physical assault.

I hope this helps you find the truth in the matter.
Click to expand...
👍
 
WesleyF said:
Consider Darwin’s theory of survival of the species. What does it say? It says that the species evolves to ensure its survival. How does being gay help in the survival of the human race? Gay people cannot reproduce and therefore cannot help the human race in surviving. Therefore, by Darwin’s theory, it is unnatural.
Click to expand...
A question which has puzzled scientists, and which has at least a partial answer. Female relatives of male homosexuals tend to have more babies, and so compensate for fewer babies fathered by the homosexuals. Hence the genes persist. See Why Gays Don’t Go Extinct.

rossum
 
WesleyF said:
I have drawn myself into a debate on facebook. It all started with a friend of mine posting something like “equal rights for gays…being gay is not a disease or a choice…” and then further asking to “Copy and Paste this to your profile and spread it…”.

I commented, saying, “I think being gay is a psychological disorder. I have no problem in accepting a gay person. I would just not want him to remain that way.”

To which she replied, “ummm i understand your feelings but i hope u understand that being gay is not a disorder.”

I replied back - “I firmly believe it is a disorder. Consider Darwin’s theory of survival of the species. What does it say? It says that the species evolves to ensure its survival. How does being gay help in the survival of the human race? Gay people cannot reproduce and therefore cannot help the human race in surviving. Therefore, by Darwin’s theory, it is unnatural.”

Could someone provide me with sources which show that homosexuality is not natural or is a disorder?
Click to expand...
You’re off to a good start, Wesley. These articles will be helpful:

narth.com/docs/normalization.html (The A.P.A. Normalization of Homosexuality, and the Research Study of Irving Bieber) Check for other articles at the NARTH site.

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=633 (Homosexuality, The Disorder Question)

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=634&repos=6&subrepos=2&searchid=667728 (Homosexuality, The Truth Question)

catholicculture.org/culture/what_you_need_to_know/index.cfm?id=50&repos=6&subrepos=3&searchid=667728

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5343&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=667728

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5798&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=667728

ssaml.com

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=3270&repos=4&subrepos=1&searchid=667728
 
No one knows why people are gay, and I think, we never will for certain.
I personally think their are many causes, including choice.
 
NE_Catholic said:
No one knows why people are gay, and I think, we never will for certain.
I personally think their are many causes, including choice.
Click to expand...
No one is sure (well except apparetly the president) why some people have same sex attractions.

I’m absolutely sure however that participation in same sex acts is a choice.

Chuck
 
duffyk4 said:
No need to be sarcastic and hostile, Fofeba raises a good point. Basically, we cannot deny that homosexuality is natural, you even say so in your post. While I do believe gay sex and marriage is wrong, you’re definitely going about it the wrong way in comparing it to murder and physical assault. You’re not going to sway anyone to our argument with that sort of inflammatory language.

The truth is, homosexuality is not a disorder, and it is not unnatural. It is not a choice. We should not discriminate against anyone who identifies themselves as a homosexual. HOWEVER, this does not mean we should condone homosexual sex or marriage. The reason that it is wrong is because the reason God instituted marriage and gave us sexual identities is for procreation, which is not possible through homosexuality.
Click to expand...
I’m not being hostile. Sarcastic, yes. But thats the truth. There are many natural tendencies within humans that we view as unnatural and evil. What separates homosexual tendencies from violence? Just because something is naturally occuring doesn’t mean its okay.

And what inflamatory language?
 
FOFEBA said:
  1. Homosexuality exists in many species, including humans. It appears to be pretty much the same percentage of the population, regardless of culture, religion or other external factors. In other words, it appears to be a naturally occurring variation in sexuality. Over time, more and more evidence has been accumulating that homosexuality is largely determined biologically, though this is not yet conclusive. It is known that homosexuality as a sexual orientation is not volitional. It is not a choice.
  2. Psychiatrists and psychologists agree that they were wrong when they considered homosexuality to be a disorder. It has not been considered so for about 30 years now.
I hope this helps you to find the truth in the matter.
Click to expand...
“Natural occurring variation in sexuality.” Well, I suppose so.

I think of it this way. A good free-throw shooter will hit 9 out of 10 free-throws. I guess you could say that it is a “natural variation” when the 1 out of 10 does not go in. However, the intent for the 1 out of 10 was still to go in the basket. Now from the point of view of the basket ball that did not go in, it was natural for it not to, since that was the way it was thrown. But, from the point of view of the thrower, it was a disorder for it not to go in.

The same for sexuality. Obviously the “intent” of nature is heterosexuality, and homosexualtiy is simply an accident, something didn’t go right biologically. Now, frrom the point of view of evolution, we can derive homosexualtiy from heterosexualtiy, but not vice versa. That is, we can explain homosexuality as a sort of mis-fire of heterosexuality, but not the other way around. That is why I would consider it a “disorder,” even if from the homosexual’s view point, it does seems natural to them.

I would suspect that the psychiatrists and psychologists responded to political pressure in their current opinion.

Should there be laws against homosexuality? No. That would be against the idea of American freedom. The government should not force its morality upon the people. And by the same token, the government should not force its morality of favoring homosexuals either, which it is doing. That is, homosexuals should be legally free to practice, and others should be legally free to express their disapproval.
 
mackbrislawn said:
“Natural occurring variation in sexuality.” Well, I suppose so.

I think of it this way. A good free-throw shooter will hit 9 out of 10 free-throws. I guess you could say that it is a “natural variation” when the 1 out of 10 does not go in. However, the intent for the 1 out of 10 was still to go in the basket. Now from the point of view of the basket ball that did not go in, it was natural for it not to, since that was the way it was thrown. But, from the point of view of the thrower, it was a disorder for it not to go in.

The same for sexuality. Obviously the “intent” of nature is heterosexuality, and homosexualtiy is simply an accident, something didn’t go right biologically. Now, frrom the point of view of evolution, we can derive homosexualtiy from heterosexualtiy, but not vice versa. That is, we can explain homosexuality as a sort of mis-fire of heterosexuality, but not the other way around. That is why I would consider it a “disorder,” even if from the homosexual’s view point, it does seems natural to them.

I would suspect that the psychiatrists and psychologists responded to political pressure in their current opinion.

Should there be laws against homosexuality? No. That would be against the idea of American freedom. The government should not force its morality upon the people. And by the same token, the government should not force its morality of favoring homosexuals either, which it is doing. That is, homosexuals should be legally free to practice, and others should be legally free to express their disapproval.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Its the responsibility of the government to preserve the society, and this includes upholding moral values in that same society. I think history has proven that death of empires were brought about by a decline in morality.
 
why is homosexuality a lacking of morality?

and even if i agreed with your statement on empires…who’s morals should we rely?

I find it immoral to try and deny someone from being with another human being they love. I would feel there is more god in a homosexual marriage built on love than on a heterosexual marriage built on no love.
 
FCEGM said:
You’re off to a good start, Wesley. These articles will be helpful:

narth.com/docs/normalization.html (The A.P.A. Normalization of Homosexuality, and the Research Study of Irving Bieber) Check for other articles at the NARTH site.

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=633 (Homosexuality, The Disorder Question)

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=634&repos=6&subrepos=2&searchid=667728 (Homosexuality, The Truth Question)

catholicculture.org/culture/what_you_need_to_know/index.cfm?id=50&repos=6&subrepos=3&searchid=667728

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5343&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=667728

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5798&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=667728

ssaml.com

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=3270&repos=4&subrepos=1&searchid=667728
Click to expand...
These links are really good. Thanks!
 
“On Arriving at the American Psychiatric Association Decision on Homosexuality,”

is perhaps one of the most flawed studies I have ever read…i am now dumber for having read the methodology…and the fact the only non religious link you can post is a study from the 1960s is very telling…did you know in the 1960s scientists didn’t even know the earth was broken into plate tectonics? I doubt you realize this but science has progressed quite a bit since the 1960s maybe we can post some new research?
 
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