can you help me to find where it says....

[wisdomseeker]

I have been looking for where it says that women are not to return the Host back to the Tabernacle. i heard fr. Pacwa saying this on tv the other day. that only the priest or the deacon can do this. but i cant find where the Church teaches this.

can anyone help? thanks and God bless.

 

[MarkThompson]

From the GIRM:
163. When the distribution of Communion is finished, the priest himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain; as for any consecrated hosts that are left, he either consumes them at the altar or carries them to the place designated for the reservation of the Eucharist.

Upon returning to the altar, the priest collects any fragments that may remain. Then, standing at the altar or at the credence table, he purifies the paten or ciborium over the chalice then purifies the chalice, saying quietly, Quod ore sumpsimus (Lord, may I receive), and dries the chalice with a purificator. If the vessels are purified at the altar, they are carried to the credence table by a minister. Nevertheless, it is also permitted, especially if there are several vessels to be purified, to leave them suitably covered on a corporal, either at the altar or at the credence table, and to purify them immediately after Mass following the dismissal of the people.
Hope this is what you were looking for –

 

[wisdomseeker]

thanks. but i am looking more where it says that laity are not allowed to do such, only a pirest and a deacon are allowed to do this.

in my parish the women are the ones who are taking the Host back to the Tabernacle. i heard priest on EWTN saying this is not permited. but i cannot find where the Church says laity and specially women are not allowed to do this.

 

[JerrySeibert]

Never heard of this rule. My Parish is guilty as well. There are plenty of times a female EMHC takes care of the Tabernacle. Did the speaker say where this rule came from?

 

[benedictgal]

thanks. but i am looking more where it says that laity are not allowed to do such, only a pirest and a deacon are allowed to do this.

in my parish the women are the ones who are taking the Host back to the Tabernacle. i heard priest on EWTN saying this is not permited. but i cannot find where the Church says laity and specially women are not allowed to do this.

Actually, if you re-read the GIRM reference from post 2, you will note that:

1. When the distribution of Communion is finished, **the priest **himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain; as for any consecrated hosts that are left, he either consumes them at the altar or carries them to the place designated for the reservation of the Eucharist.

This means that if there are an consecrated hosts that are left, the priest (or deacon) is the one to carry them back to the Tabernacle. The EMHCs should already be at their places in the pews by that time.

 

[CatholicZ09]

I know that the priest at my parish takes the hosts back to the tabernacle after Holy Communion, however, the Eucharistic Ministers who have the Precious Blood consume the rest of it and then leave their chalices at the credence table for the priest to purify the chalices and ciboriums. Is this permitted?

 

[Seatuck]

I know that the priest at my parish takes the hosts back to the tabernacle after Holy Communion, however, the Eucharistic Ministers who have the Precious Blood consume the rest of it and then leave their chalices at the credence table for the priest to purify the chalices and ciboriums. Is this permitted?

Yes , that is correct if the priest has instructed them to consume the remaining Precious Blood.

 

[FrDavid96]

I have been looking for where it says that women are not to return the Host back to the Tabernacle. i heard fr. Pacwa saying this on tv the other day. that only the priest or the deacon can do this. but i cant find where the Church teaches this.

can anyone help? thanks and God bless.

I don’t think you’ll find a direct answer. But there is an indirect one. As Benedictgal posted from th GIRM, the priest is to return the place designated for the Hosts (ie the Tabernacle).

Since a layperson (man or woman) is an extra-ordinary minister of Holy Communion, that means 2 things. 1 that they can only be deputed to actually help with the distribution of Holy Communion and nothing more (beyond what the GIRM allows) and that 2 they can only do so when there’s genuine need. Since there is a priest present (at Mass, there must be), there’s no genuine need for laypersons to put the Eucharist into the tabernacle; the priest can certainly do this himself and doesn’t need any help. Since there can’t be any legitimate reason for the priest not-to-do this himeslf, laypersons can’t be deputed to do it for him.

Now, please dear readers and posters, note that I said “any legitimate reason” because no doubt, there will be those who want to come up with all kinds of wild possibilities for why the priest can’t go to the tabernacle himself.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Never heard of this rule. My Parish is guilty as well. There are plenty of times a female EMHC takes care of the Tabernacle. Did the speaker say where this rule came from?

i dont remember. but i know that fr Pacwa said that only the priest or the deacons can take the Host back to the Tabernacle.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I don’t think you’ll find a direct answer. But there is an indirect one. As Benedictgal posted from th GIRM, the priest is to return the place designated for the Hosts (ie the Tabernacle).

Since a layperson (man or woman) is an extra-ordinary minister of Holy Communion, that means 2 things. 1 that they can only be deputed to actually help with the distribution of Holy Communion and nothing more (beyond what the GIRM allows) and that 2 they can only do so when there’s genuine need. Since there is a priest present (at Mass, there must be), there’s no genuine need for laypersons to put the Eucharist into the tabernacle; the priest can certainly do this himself and doesn’t need any help. Since there can’t be any legitimate reason for the priest not-to-do this himeslf, laypersons can’t be deputed to do it for him.

Now, please dear readers and posters, note that I said “any legitimate reason” because no doubt, there will be those who want to come up with all kinds of wild possibilities for why the priest can’t go to the tabernacle himself.

thank you, fr David. i find very interesting how things are changing in my parish. before there was no guitar no band. today, all this and women running around the Sanctuary to the Tabernacle. i dont see the priest purifying the Vessels since it is the women who are doing everything after the Eucharist is giving to the people. the priest is old, he stands and gives the homily but i dont know why he sits and let the women take take over the Altar after the Bread is consagrated.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Actually, if you re-read the GIRM reference from post 2, you will note that:

This means that if there are an consecrated hosts that are left, the priest (or deacon) is the one to carry them back to the Tabernacle. The EMHCs should already be at their places in the pews by that time.

thanks. i saw this, i guess this should be enough to prove that women are not allowed to go to the Taberncacle.

 

[benedictgal]

thanks. i saw this, i guess this should be enough to prove that women are not allowed to go to the Taberncacle.

However, it’s not specifically aimed at women, but, laity in general, meaning EMHCs who are both men and women. So, the same rule applies to a layman.

 

[wisdomseeker]

However, it’s not specifically aimed at women, but, laity in general, meaning EMHCs who are both men and women. So, the same rule applies to a layman.

Yes. that is what fr Pacwa said. no laity people, only priests and deacons.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

thank you, fr David. i find very interesting how things are changing in my parish. before there was no guitar no band. today, all this and women running around the Sanctuary to the Tabernacle. i dont see the priest purifying the Vessels since it is the women who are doing everything after the Eucharist is giving to the people. the priest is old, he stands and gives the homily but i dont know why he sits and let the women take take over the Altar after the Bread is consagrated.

Please remember that the issue isn’t women, but laity instead of clergy. If your priest is older, he may simply have a hard time standing and so he has asked the EMHCs (who just happened to be women at the Mass you attended) to help carry the vessels to the credence table or sacristy. No laity–man or woman–should be purifying the vessels. They can veil them and take them off the altar however.

Which musical instruments are used is a completely separate topic.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Please remember that the issue isn’t women, but laity instead of clergy. If your priest is older, he may simply have a hard time standing and so he has asked the EMHCs (who just happened to be women at the Mass you attended) to help carry the vessels to the credence table or sacristy. No laity–man or woman–should be purifying the vessels. They can veil them and take them off the altar however.

Which musical instruments are used is a completely separate topic.

no, the priest is not that old. although we do have some older priest.

the Vessels are never veiled.

**Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened. **–Sir Winston Churchill

 

[BigRedpg51]

I believe that the task of returning the left over Consecrated Hosts to the tabernacle is at the discretion of the local ordinary (bishop), and is dictated at the training received by the Eucharistic Ministers.

 

[benedictgal]

I believe that the task of returning the left over Consecrated Hosts to the tabernacle is at the discretion of the local ordinary (bishop), and is dictated at the training received by the Eucharistic Ministers.

No. It is not. According to the GIRM, this is what falls under the bishop’s purview:

1. The Diocesan Bishop, who is to be regarded as the high priest of his flock, and from whom the life in Christ of the faithful under his care in a certain sense derives and upon whom it depends,148 must promote, regulate, and be vigilant over the liturgical life in his diocese. **It is to him that in this Instruction is entrusted the regulating of the discipline of concelebration (cf. above, nos. 202, 374) and the establishing of norms regarding the function of serving the priest at the altar (cf. above, no. 107), the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds (cf. above, no. 283), and the construction and ordering of churches (cf. above, no. 291). **With him lies responsibility above all for fostering the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the priests, deacons, and faithful.

The GIRM clearly states that only clergy can do this, not EMHCs. By the way, the correct term for laity assisting with the distribution of Holy Communion is Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion. The priest and bishop are Eucharistic Ministers because only they can confect the Sacrament. A deacon, along with the bishop and the priest, is an ordinary minister of Holy Communion by virture of Holy Orders.

 

[VioletMary]

I have been in a parish where the tabernacle is not in the “worship space” but in a separate chapel. So, it’s impractical for the priest to leave the church to the chapel to replace the ciborium in the tabernacle during mass. Therefore, when there’s no deacon at mass (which is usually), an EMHC (male or female) deals with the ciborium, when needed. (Same parish uses “real bread,” baked by parishoners, hosts are only consecrated for sick calls & in case at a mass the “real bread” eucharist runs out.)

This in itself argues for churches to have the tabernacle proximal to the altar. How parishes were allowed to build churches with the Blessed Sacrament is in a separate space, is beyond me.

Which is another argument.

Thank You So Much for enlightening us about the requirements in the GIRM. It is probably the most underused reference in the American church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

No. It is not. According to the GIRM, this is what falls under the bishop’s purview:

The GIRM clearly states that only clergy can do this, not EMHCs. By the way, the correct term for laity assisting with the distribution of Holy Communion is Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion. The priest and bishop are Eucharistic Ministers because only they can confect the Sacrament. A deacon, along with the bishop and the priest, is an ordinary minister of Holy Communion by virture of Holy Orders.

well, if it is up to the bishop, then, if a liberal bishop comes along and says it is ok for women to do those things then, it is ok wiht the Church those proceedings?

 

[paperwight]

well, if it is up to the bishop, then, if a liberal bishop comes along and says it is ok for women to do those things then, it is ok wiht the Church those proceedings?

As has already been pointed out, the distinction is between lay persons versus priest/deacon. ‘Persons’, please note, not ‘women’. If it is wrong for a lay person to do something, it is wrong equally for a lay man and a lay woman.

You seem to be overly concerned on whether it is right for a woman per se.
If it is right for a lay man to do something, it is right for a lay woman. Conversely, if it is wrong for a lay man, it is wrong for a lay woman.