Can you honor your parents while giving them criticism?

[GilleChriosd]

Right. If your parents are the “doctors don’t know everything”/“therapy is for whiners” type or the “hey! sign this financial paperwork that I’m not going to explain to you” type, feel free to politely do your own thing–go to the doctor, see a therapist, don’t sign stuff until you understand it and agree with it.

Otherwise, don’t get into fights about trivia or matters of opinion.

Don’t worry, they aren’t those kind of parents. I would probably be fine with a student councilor but they would worry about me if I told them that I went to one in the first place.

 

[GilleChriosd]

So dear friend in Christ, what exactly is “somewhat of a change?” That is very vague and unfortunately nearly impossible to measure. I am not trying to pick apart your answers, honestly I am not I am really trying to help.

My guess is that you love your parents but that in your heart you sense that things could be better…you just can’t put your finger on it right now exactly what it is that you want to be different and to what degree. That is okay! It is normal to be in human relationships and not know exactly where they are headed and what the future is, that is normal!

My suggestion to you is to try and figure our your goal, at least in part before you proceed to confront your parents and here is why. If you begin confronting them without a goal in mind you might only bring about frustration on your side and on theirs. Since right now you have no way to measure success (ex: hypothetical goal for dad to stop asking about weekend activities) you will have no way to know you have met the goal so you could potentially keep on confronting them and they will be puzzled at your behavior.

Another thing you want to ask yourself is: are your parents capable of giving you what you are seeking? I had someone in my life that I wished for a certain kind of relationship with, but upon much reflection I realized they were not in an emotional place to give me what I needed. You might need to do some soul searching there too. Are your parents the kind of people that will make the kind of changes you hope for? Will you be confronting them for nothing and having everyone frustrated?

Start small too, have reasonable goals in mind! Perhaps for you and your parents to grow closer in smaller ways would be nice. Try not to have a goal for your parents to change their personalities or habits 100% or you might be disappointed! God bless you on your faith journey.

Thanks for the comment and well wishes. I understand your point about finding one goal to focus on. The problem is I think I’ve done a lot of soul searching already and it sort of confuses the goal a bit where it goes into several goals. I tend to think about things A LOT and I am wondering if I am better off performing actions instead of always picking things apart inside my mind. I guess that is one goal I want to accomplish in talking to my parents about this: its to gain more confidence and stop living inside my mind.

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you again for sharing.

Your goals are wonderful and worthwhile although still hard to measure so please give yourself TIME. That’s all. The goal of gaining confidence and changing your way of thinking can be quite a journey! It is good that you want to start by changing the way you communicate with your parents, just don’t be disappointed in yourself if things don’t change overnight.

Always remember your dignity as a unique creation of God. You are made in His image and likeness, you are His child. Much more will come from nurturing your relationship with God than from any other relationship I can promise that. God bless.

Also, maybe start very small?

“I think I’ll wear my blue shirt today, mom.”

 

[GilleChriosd]

I know it’s been a few days. But I just want to thank everyone for the suggestions. Please pray for me as I try to keep them and won’t be tempted to not do anything. Thanks.

 

[TriciaF]

I will consider it but it may be sort of tough since my mom in particular worries about my safety and whatnot. I will also look into a counselor. The problem with going to a confessor though is that I am not exactly Catholic yet. I am heavily considering becoming one out of my Protestant family tradition which is another hurdle I need to get over. The closest I can do is the nice local Baptist minister but I don’t know him real well.

Mothers’ worrying is something they/we have to deal with when the children grow up and leave home.
It would have been better if you’d agreed to contact once a week.
Worrying and needing to hear from you every night is a chain for her and for you.
Parents of adult children need to go through the process of letting go and trusting their adult children to be sensible and safe.
Children leaving home is a new development phase for parents and they need to get on with that, or heaven help future spouses, and also, you stay a child.
She would soon enough find out if something bad happens!
Contacting your mother every night means that she can’t begin the process needed to let young adults get on with their lives and develop maturity.
No, it isn’t easy for parents, probably especially mothers, but don’t keep daily contact on too long. Your mother will probably make a fuss about it and think you heartless and that she’s losing you, but separation to a degree must happen.
Try to have the adult fortitude to tell your mother that you will be sensible and safe, and you’d let her know if anything goes wrong and you need help. Good luck with that though, especially as the daily ritual is is established! Your parents have to learn to trust you, you’re not a little kid anymore.

 

[EasterJoy]

To answer the original question again, I think the answer is absolutely “yes…but”

I consider it one of my jobs as a parent to teach my children how to raise questions or objections to authority in a respectful and sensible way. Before going out into the world as an adult, everyone needs to learn to ask: is it any of my business to put in my two cents about this? Is this a good time? Is this the right way? Is this likely to have a positive result? Is it right that this person with authority over me hear this from me? Have they taught me that they will welcome or punish this kind of feedback? Under what circumstances? And so on.

 

[Xantippe]

To answer the original question again, I think the answer is absolutely “yes…but”

I consider it one of my jobs as a parent to teach my children how to raise questions or objections to authority in a respectful and sensible way. Before going out into the world as an adult, everyone needs to learn to ask: is it any of my business to put in my two cents about this? Is this a good time? Is this the right way? Is this likely to have a positive result? Is it right that this person with authority over me hear this from me? Have they taught me that they will welcome or punish this kind of feedback? Under what circumstances? And so on.

That’s very good.

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s very good.

Thanks. The thing to recognize with children is that no one is born knowing how to do this. We aren’t born thinking about things from someone else’s point of view. When you have the presence of mind to tell your child, “what you’re trying to say is something you’re allowed to say, but the way you are saying it is going to give you just the opposite of the results you want, so let’s try that again,” instead of getting angry at the little twerp for being so impertinent, you help them out a great deal. I do tell them that learning to talk to me is practice for learning to talk to the police, to teachers, to people who have some measure of power to give you what you want or to deny it.

Of course, all this depends on the fundamental teaching: Life is not fair. Life is good. If you think about it for even a minute, you will realize it cannot be both at the same time. It is no crime to hope for the mercy to get more than we strictly entitled to have, but it often takes real appreciation that mercy is required to get it.

 

[GilleChriosd]

Mothers’ worrying is something they/we have to deal with when the children grow up and leave home.
It would have been better if you’d agreed to contact once a week.
Worrying and needing to hear from you every night is a chain for her and for you.
Parents of adult children need to go through the process of letting go and trusting their adult children to be sensible and safe.
Children leaving home is a new development phase for parents and they need to get on with that, or heaven help future spouses, and also, you stay a child.
She would soon enough find out if something bad happens!
Contacting your mother every night means that she can’t begin the process needed to let young adults get on with their lives and develop maturity.
No, it isn’t easy for parents, probably especially mothers, but don’t keep daily contact on too long. Your mother will probably make a fuss about it and think you heartless and that she’s losing you, but separation to a degree must happen.
Try to have the adult fortitude to tell your mother that you will be sensible and safe, and you’d let her know if anything goes wrong and you need help. Good luck with that though, especially as the daily ritual is is established! Your parents have to learn to trust you, you’re not a little kid anymore.

I definitely see what you mean about the letting go. I think my father understands that a bit more than my mother but it is still difficult to just tell them straight off like that that I need space. Another hurdle is that I am living in a four person apartment and my brother is with me in one of the rooms. He might have a problem about this too since he’d rather be home and he wants to talk to them every night. This is another reason its difficult.

Anyways, in other news I emailed a student councilor and the local catholic church. I don’t know if it will lead to something but I hope to at least get together since I haven’t even went to either before.

 

[GilleChriosd]

Thanks. The thing to recognize with children is that no one is born knowing how to do this. We aren’t born thinking about things from someone else’s point of view. When you have the presence of mind to tell your child, “what you’re trying to say is something you’re allowed to say, but the way you are saying it is going to give you just the opposite of the results you want, so let’s try that again,” instead of getting angry at the little twerp for being so impertinent, you help them out a great deal. I do tell them that learning to talk to me is practice for learning to talk to the police, to teachers, to people who have some measure of power to give you what you want or to deny it.

Of course, all this depends on the fundamental teaching: Life is not fair. Life is good. If you think about it for even a minute, you will realize it cannot be both at the same time. It is no crime to hope for the mercy to get more than we strictly entitled to have, but it often takes real appreciation that mercy is required to get it.

hmm you seem like a good parent

 

[EasterJoy]

hmm you seem like a good parent

Thank you…but the thing to realize is the difference between how I see things and how your parents see things, and proceed accordingly. You’re going to be doing this for every boss, pastor, instructor, police presence and other official in your life forever, so you may as well get started now.

So, first off: Normally, it is not your place to correct most of the people whose place it is to correct you. Most of the time, you refrain from offering unsolicited corrections to anyone over whom you have no jurisdiction. You may, however, carefully offer feedback to those who correct you.

For instance, let us say that your boss or your parents have this way of dropping jobs on you at the last minute, which seriously interferes with your other legitimate plans. Yes, it is good to bear these things patiently, and you should plan to continue doing that. It is also OK, however, to make a thoughtful objection to the overuse of the practice. When you do, however, be careful to recognize there may be more to the situation than your point of view: “I know it cannot always be helped, but it really helps me to plan my week when you give me advanced notice about jobs you need me to do. I realize you may hold off on telling me about a job until you know you’ll need me to do it, but could you give me the heads-up of an ‘I may need you to do such-and-so on Friday’ when possible? I would appreciate it very much.”

Or let us say that your mom uses the time when she criticizes the work you do (or don’t do) to make personal criticisms. You can say, “Mom, you’re making some very good points, you have a right to complain, but I’m only human. Can you stick to telling me what I need to do to clean up my act without making my mistakes into permanent character flaws? I mean, after all, if I’m just lazy and that is all there is to it, what hope is there for me to change? Do you get what I’m trying to say? I’d like to think you are trying to get me to pick up after myself because you do think I could become a neat person like you, some day. When you keep telling me I’m lazy and sloppy, though, I automatically start feeling there is no use in even trying to be as neat as you are.”

You have to feel your way through what sorts of tactics work and don’t work with a particular person. It is very much a job that takes some careful experimentation. I’d say ‘trial and error,’ but I mean something more along the lines of how one tests airplanes. You want to get into the habit of thinking your trial experiments through and conducting them carefully, so as to avoid getting yourself into a flaming crash! Always look for a landing you can walk away from, even when the trial turns out to have been an error!

 

[pensmama87]

Thanks. The thing to recognize with children is that no one is born knowing how to do this. We aren’t born thinking about things from someone else’s point of view. When you have the presence of mind to tell your child, “what you’re trying to say is something you’re allowed to say, but the way you are saying it is going to give you just the opposite of the results you want, so let’s try that again,” instead of getting angry at the little twerp for being so impertinent, you help them out a great deal. I do tell them that learning to talk to me is practice for learning to talk to the police, to teachers, to people who have some measure of power to give you what you want or to deny it.

Of course, all this depends on the fundamental teaching: Life is not fair. Life is good. If you think about it for even a minute, you will realize it cannot be both at the same time. It is no crime to hope for the mercy to get more than we strictly entitled to have, but it often takes real appreciation that mercy is required to get it.

Unrelated, but thanks for this. My kids have been revving up the impertinence/backtalk/sass lately and let’s just say I have not been handling it in the best way. I really like your approach and I’ll work on remembering it in those heated moments.

 

[EasterJoy]

Unrelated, but thanks for this. My kids have been revving up the impertinence/backtalk/sass lately and let’s just say I have not been handling it in the best way. I really like your approach and I’ll work on remembering it in those heated moments.

If you treat this as a Simon Says game where they have to ask the right way or not get what they want, they will catch on. Kids are very smart that way. As much as possible, make the Simon Says into the way they would be wise to talk to all people in authority.

The main thing, however, is to walk your talk, and that is the hardest. Don’t use sarcasm, don’t put down what they want even when they can’t have it–you do want them to feel they can trust you with knowledge of their dreams and aspirations in general–but instead cast this all as training them to self-advocate in a way that will actually get them what they want when it is really important with people other than their parents.

 

[GilleChriosd]

This is a bit off topic but a similar subject, but what do I do with my brother? You guys seem to be in agreement that I should try to cut down on communication with my parents just a bit while I am living at the dorm. The problem is my brother wants to communicate with them every night and he is staying in the same apartment (in a separate dorm room) . Should I just tell him that I won’t be partaking?

 

[Xantippe]

This is a bit off topic but a similar subject, but what do I do with my brother? You guys seem to be in agreement that I should try to cut down on communication with my parents just a bit while I am living at the dorm. The problem is my brother wants to communicate with them every night and he is staying in the same apartment (in a separate dorm room) . Should I just tell him that I won’t be partaking?

You could keep it short (“Got to get back to my course reading, dad!”) or just not be there every night at that time.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is a bit off topic but a similar subject, but what do I do with my brother? You guys seem to be in agreement that I should try to cut down on communication with my parents just a bit while I am living at the dorm. The problem is my brother wants to communicate with them every night and he is staying in the same apartment (in a separate dorm room) . Should I just tell him that I won’t be partaking?

He wants to do* what?* If your parents are going through a crisis, maybe. Otherwise, people do not call their parents from the dorms every day. Send a text message or a quick e-mail, maybe, but not a direct call. If your brother starts out doing this, it isn’t too likely he’ll keep it up.

 

[GilleChriosd]

Update:I asked him and my brother says he doesn’t really feel that way anymore now that he is used to college. There was also an incident recently where me and my brother didn’t pay close enough attention to a text and we ended up being late by missing a appointment by being 10 minutes late. Dad was angry and disappointed with us. He tends to take ‘do your best in everything you do’ very seriously and can have a bad temper about the subject. I’m very sorry I didn’t pay closer attention to the text but it’s just moments like these where I want to tell my dad more than ‘I’m sorry’.

Anyways I’m sorry if I’m overloading this forum with too much personal drama but it just feels good to talk with people about this. I am trying to take everyone’s advice though and I got a councilor appointment so hopefully everything goes ok.

 

[GilleChriosd]

Bump (Is this ok?)

 

[EasterJoy]

Update:I asked him and my brother says he doesn’t really feel that way anymore now that he is used to college. There was also an incident recently where me and my brother didn’t pay close enough attention to a text and we ended up being late by missing a appointment by being 10 minutes late. Dad was angry and disappointed with us. He tends to take ‘do your best in everything you do’ very seriously and can have a bad temper about the subject. I’m very sorry I didn’t pay closer attention to the text but it’s just moments like these where I want to tell my dad more than ‘I’m sorry’.

Anyways I’m sorry if I’m overloading this forum with too much personal drama but it just feels good to talk with people about this. I am trying to take everyone’s advice though and I got a councilor appointment so hopefully everything goes ok.

Of course you want to say more than “I’m sorry,” but if you are wise you will ask yourself what good is going to come from defending yourself or correcting an error being made by your father. You can change how much you take what your dad says to heart and you can learn to ignore it or offer it up when he frames a message in a less-than-charitable way. Changing him is another matter entirely. With him, you ought to generally consider “what is my boundary, which I am willing to explain to him and defend with him and what is his issue, something I need to let go of because I don’t control him, can’t change him, and don’t have the authority to correct him on matters that do not have to do with me directly?”

For instance, let us say he habitually makes rude comments to waitresses. If your boundary is that you refuse to stay at the table with anyone who abuses the staff at a restaurant, you can decide not to go to restaurants with him if he won’t change this, and you can explain why. You can, OTOH, decide that the staff at a restaurant is not likely to blame you for the way your father acts, and that being willing to eat out with your dad in spite of his imperfections is a more generous and charitable boundary, something most waitresses would be OK with. What you cannot do is to reach in and switch your dad’s head, and you don’t have the authority the think you should be allowed to do that. Sometimes we see a wrong and let it go because attempting to correct it would not correct anything, but only add another wrong on top of a wrong. That is the line you will be learning to walk. There is always some guesswork involved, and as you go through life you’ll gain an appreciation of yourself and what does and does not work for you.

 

[GilleChriosd]

Of course you want to say more than “I’m sorry,” but if you are wise you will ask yourself what good is going to come from defending yourself or correcting an error being made by your father. You can change how much you take what your dad says to heart and you can learn to ignore it or offer it up when he frames a message in a less-than-charitable way. Changing him is another matter entirely. With him, you ought to generally consider “what is my boundary, which I am willing to explain to him and defend with him and what is his issue, something I need to let go of because I don’t control him, can’t change him, and don’t have the authority to correct him on matters that do not have to do with me directly?”

For instance, let us say he habitually makes rude comments to waitresses. If your boundary is that you refuse to stay at the table with anyone who abuses the staff at a restaurant, you can decide not to go to restaurants with him if he won’t change this, and you can explain why. You can, OTOH, decide that the staff at a restaurant is not likely to blame you for the way your father acts, and that being willing to eat out with your dad in spite of his imperfections is a more generous and charitable boundary, something most waitresses would be OK with. What you cannot do is to reach in and switch your dad’s head, and you don’t have the authority the think you should be allowed to do that. Sometimes we see a wrong and let it go because attempting to correct it would not correct anything, but only add another wrong on top of a wrong. That is the line you will be learning to walk. There is always some guesswork involved, and as you go through life you’ll gain an appreciation of yourself and what does and does not work for you.

If I am understanding you correctly, you think that I should stop worrying about changing them and start making my own decisions without them. I just have to find a boundary that is worth having. I guess my question is does this boundary crossover into straight disobedience sometimes? Its kind of hard to think of a specific example because I don’t know all my parents limits.

The thing that bothered me about the other day is that my dad seemed like he was talking down to us like children. When I learned he was angry from my brother, I had this whole plan in my head that I would stand up straight, look him in the eyes and accept my punishment like a man. But the moment he came, he immediately told us to sit down while he lectured us. I know its kind of dumb and I don’t know if I’m completely right in thinking this but it seems like he was trying to make us feel small.

It seems like he always wants us to know when we get in trouble that it is completely our fault while he makes excuses when he is singled out by others. Well anyways, that is my complete thoughts on the subject, I may or may not be off base I don’t know.