Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics

[Odell]

From a Protestant

Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics under Bloody Mary’s Reign? Where was the outspoken outrage from the Church of Rome?

 

[TimothyH]

From a Catholic.

Don’t we have more important things to do than argue about Pope’s who lived 500 years ago? Can’t we work together to end abortion or feed some hungry people, or at least have a barbeque or go bowling or something?

-Tim-

 

[ahs]

From a Protestant

Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics under Bloody Mary’s Reign? Where was the outspoken outrage from the Church of Rome?

I personally cannot. But I am willing to bet that just because it’s not in writing doesn’t mean it wasn’t stated.

Your interlocutor might find these Papal oppositions catalogued in the same place as the Lutheran, Anabaptist and other protestant leader writings in opposition to the drawing&quartering, disembowelment, burning, and decapitation of Catholics (and each other) during this brutal and disgusting period of history.

 

[meltzerboy]

From a Protestant

Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics under Bloody Mary’s Reign? Where was the outspoken outrage from the Church of Rome?

Probably Pope Clement VI, who lived in France during the era of the Black Death. He protected the Jews, insisting that they were victims of the plague as were Catholics, and had not brought on the pestilence by poisoning the wells, which was the libel that circulated throughout Europe. He may have tried to protect the lepers as well, many of whom were also burned because of the commonly-held belief that they had a role in the spread of the plague.

 

[MarcoPolo]

From a Protestant

Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics under Bloody Mary’s Reign? Where was the outspoken outrage from the Church of Rome?

If there was, then what? If there wasn’t, then what? This question sounds to me to be from someone who is not interested in confronting the truth of Catholicism, but to try to discredit Christ by highlighting Judas. What if some popes were corrupt? What will the answer to the question prove for the Protestant who is asking?

 

[AOE4]

Sure, Pope Gregory IX, see footnote #6. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_IX#cite_note-Vizzier-6

 

[meltzerboy]

Sure, Pope Gregory IX, see footnote #6. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_IX#cite_note-Vizzier-6

Yet, according to this article, Pope Gregory IX was hardly a great role model for future Popes. He may not have believed in the torture of heretics but he did believe in the political servitude of Jews and had no qualms, under the influence of a Jewish convert to Christianity, Nicholas Donin, about burning “12,000 hand-written Talmud manuscripts.”

 

[Kaninchen]

Yet, according to this article, Pope Gregory IX was hardly a great role model for future Popes. He may not have believed in the torture of heretics but he did believe in the political servitude of Jews and had no qualms, under the influence of a Jewish convert to Christianity, Nicholas Donin, about burning “12,000 hand-written Talmud manuscripts.”

Didn’t like cats, either.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics under Bloody Mary’s Reign? Where was the outspoken outrage from the Church of Rome?

Queen Mary-1’s reign lasted five years. According to Wikipedia, “over 280” protestants were executed. More than almost 2/3 if these were executed during the first two years of her reign. This would be before the Pope (in distant Rome) could even be made aware of the situation and formulate any sort of response.

Mary-1 was executed by her protestant half-sister, Elizabeth-1, who quickly moved to execute “over 750 of them [Pro-Mary-1 rebels] … on Elizabeth’s orders”

So “Bloody Mary” executed 280 during her entire reign, and Elizabeth executed nearly three times that many in the first days of her reign.

Can you name me ONE PROTESTANT THEOLOGIAN who opposed Elizabeth’s much more bloody reign?

 

[meltzerboy]

Didn’t like cats, either.

Yes, that seems to be the case, and it is the last straw!

There is a history of the vicissitudes of cats, revered, then reviled, and revered again.

But, as others have noted, all of this is ancient, that is, medieval history.

 

[Kaninchen]

Yes, that seems to be the case, and it is the last straw!

There is a history of the vicissitudes of cats, revered, then reviled, and revered again.

But, as others have noted, all of this is ancient, that is, medieval history.

Perhaps when one lives in a world where quite a bit of the architecture is from that time, the feeling that there’s a lot more Medieval stuff still around in our modern world is more overt.

 

[Kaninchen]

Mary-1 was executed by her protestant half-sister, Elizabeth-1, who quickly moved to execute “over 750 of them [Pro-Mary-1 rebels] … on Elizabeth’s orders”

Elizabeth I executed Mary I? I think not.

 

[AOE4]

Yet, according to this article, Pope Gregory IX was hardly a great role model for future Popes. He may not have believed in the torture of heretics but he did believe in the political servitude of Jews and had no qualms, under the influence of a Jewish convert to Christianity, Nicholas Donin, about burning “12,000 hand-written Talmud manuscripts.”

Ya,sure…life was good back then, everywhere. how about your relatives…what were they up to? how did they deprive others of their basic human rights? its not like we treat Jewish people so bad these days…how did that come about? how do the Jews treat Palestinians? it goes round and round. I am a faithful Catholic and will remain so despite your posts. I love my Siamese cat

 

[meltzerboy]

Ya,sure…life was good back then, everywhere. how about your relatives…what were they up to? how did they deprive others of their basic human rights? its not like we treat Jewish people so bad these days…how did that come about? how do the Jews treat Palestinians? it goes round and round. I am a faithful Catholic and will remain so despite your posts. I love my Siamese cat

Of course you should remain a faithful Catholic; my posts are not designed to dissuade you from that. And it was you who brought up this particular pope and the Wikipedia article about him. I’m happy you love your cat, though, whether Siamese or not.

 

[JRKH]

Queen Mary-1’s reign lasted five years. According to Wikipedia, “over 280” protestants were executed. More than almost 2/3 if these were executed during the first two years of her reign. This would be before the Pope (in distant Rome) could even be made aware of the situation and formulate any sort of response.

Mary-1 was executed by her protestant half-sister, Elizabeth-1, who quickly moved to execute “over 750 of them [Pro-Mary-1 rebels] … on Elizabeth’s orders”

So “Bloody Mary” executed 280 during her entire reign, and Elizabeth executed nearly three times that many in the first days of her reign.

Can you name me ONE PROTESTANT THEOLOGIAN who opposed Elizabeth’s much more bloody reign?

Good info David…

Odell,
I was doing a little checking this morning because it seemed that the early answers to the thread missed the “under Bloody Mary’s Reign” context of the question.

Mary Reigned from July 1553 to November 1558. There were three popes in that short time.
Julius III was Pope when Mary came to power. He died 26 March of 1555
Marcellius II was elected 10 April 1555 but then died shortly after on 1 May 1555
Paul IV was elected on 26 May 1555 and died on 18 Aug 1559.

So - There are three popes that need could have condemned the burning of heretics under Mary’s reign, but so far as I know, none of them did. So there is the answer to the Protestant’s question. No reason to hide from the unfortunate or inconvenient facts history.

However, your friend must himself answer for some pretty inconvenient facts. Mary’s father, King Henry VIII and her half brother Edward VI also killed many for being “heretics” in the eyes of the “supreme head of the church in England”.

It was an era of great strife and one must look hard to find anyone in authority - on either side - with unbloodied hands. Sad - but true. It does neither side any credit to try to claim the moral high ground on this point.

Peace
James

 

[AOE4]

Of course you should remain a faithful Catholic; my posts are not designed to dissuade you from that. And it was you who brought up this particular pope and the Wikipedia article about him. I’m happy you love your cat, though, whether Siamese or not.

And the point is The Catholic church does admit its mistakes, yet we as Catholics strive to be better Christians. After all what church or man is without sin . I strive to stay with the original teachings of Jesus Christ.Peace be with you

 

[thistle]

Elizabeth I executed Mary I? I think not.

He may mean Mary Queen of Scots who was Mary I. Elizabeth ordered her execution because she was Catholic and the rightful heir to the English throne as the legitimate granddaughter of Henry VII.

 

[Kaninchen]

He may mean Mary Queen of Scots who was Mary I. Elizabeth ordered her execution because she was Catholic and the rightful heir to the English throne as the legitimate granddaughter of Henry VII.

Had the Spanish been successful in imposing Mary Stuart on the throne of England, she would have been Mary II.

 

[dmar198]

From a Protestant

Can you name me ONE POPE who opposed the Burning of heretics under Bloody Mary’s Reign? Where was the outspoken outrage from the Church of Rome?

We’re getting pretty close:

1689 A.D. - In this year the relation to France by Venier is published. It explains how, after the King of France revoked religious toleration for Protestants, and began to persecute them, Blessed Pope Innocent IX testified that the Church opposes religious violence, writing, “It was not of such methods that Christ availed himself: men must be led to the temple, not dragged into it.” (Venier, Relatione di Francia, 1689, as quoted in Ranke, History of the Popes Book VIII Section 16) The relation further states: “[T]he pope took it ill that this should have been undertaken without his consent, and conducted with the severities so well known, declaring that missions of armed apostles were not advisable; [and] that this new method was not the best, since Christ had not used such for the conversion of the world.”

Also, right before the reign of Queen Mary, St. Thomas More seems to have opposed executing heretics, unless they were violent (he wasn’t the pope, but he was still a very important Catholic figure):

1528 A.D. - St. Thomas More wrote that violence should not be used against heretics even by secular authorities, unless the heretics themselves are violent, and then only for that reason. (Dialogue Concerning Heresies, Part IV, Chapter 13)

 

[johnnyc176]

Well yes we do have more important things to do. I would say that it is of utmost importance that this protestant comes to know the One True Church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church.