Can you pray for suffering to be reduced in Hell?

[the-3rd-parent]

I wrote this email to a friend. When I wrote it, I was really tired. I’m tired now so I’m not bothering to edit it. I will note that at one point I put her instead of His. Another point I typed is instead of it, and another point I typed His with a capital H when I wasn’t referring to God.​

I don’t think that there is any official teaching on if you pray for
someone in Hell that it might decrease there pain or not. The
official teaching is that Hell exists and that we run the risk of
going there.

But there has been a number of speculations on Hell. For instance,
Dante believed that there were levels to Hell, that the greater your
sins were, the more painful Hell would be. He even argued that
Purgatory was a part of Hell, the outer reaches of it of which people
could escape. However, this completely contradicts Catholic
understanding of Purgatory. As far as I’m aware, we do not believe
Purgatory is a part of Hell, granted I have met Catholics who do
believe such thing. I’m not sure if the Church has officially
condemned this belief as heresy or not.

Since I took Christian Moral Principles under Dr. Donahue-White my
viewpoints line up with a lot of which she taught me and the material
she presented including CS Lewis’ “The Great Divorce.” We have to
remember that Christ offers us more than Salvation. We are saved,
justified and redeemed. Granted, there is a problem in that we often
use the same word which have different meanings in different context
and sometimes that context isn’t clear and in which case our
understanding of things become rather unclear.

So the way I understand it, is that Christ died to save the entire
world. Our sins do condemn us to Hell, but God’s mercy is abundant
and it is because of His mercy that we are able to enter Heaven. Now
I realize I may sound a bit too much like a Protestant in saying this
but often different heresy simply take a truth and radicalize it,
isolating it from all other truths. Then when we try to correct that
heresy, we become so afraid of falling into that heresy that we create
one at the opposite extreeme. But basically because of Christ’s death
and ressurection, the world IS saved. No sin is unforgivable except
for the sin against the Holy Spirit, which basically is refusing God’s
mercy. However, unlike Protestants, we don’t believe that its simple
a matter of accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior. We believe that
our hearts our very stubbern on this.

 

[the-3rd-parent]

A clearer way of putting it is that when we sin against the Holy
Spirit, we refuse to allow the Holy Spirit to do its redeeming work in
us. What makes us different than Protestants in this belief is that
we do not believe that you either don’t have the Holy Spirit or you
do. We believe that we have to empty ourselves daily and to stretch
ourselves to allow the Holy Spirit to complete its redeeming work in
us, that while Christ’s work is finished on the Cross, its effect in
us is not instantaneous but often moves over into the next life in
what we call Pugatory till we are perfect as our heavenly father is
perfect. I’d say our prayers and indulgences we earn for others have
the same effect as they do on earth…it might rush a person a bit
faster through the conversation process because until we are
completely purfied our conversion is continual, I believe. Gosh, why
can’t I stay on the subject?

Anyway, we often read in the Scriptures that there will be gnashing
and grinding of teeth in Hell. I do not believe this is a reference
to their suffering, but a reference to their anger at God. Their
anger further prevents them from opening their hearts to the Holy
Spirit. They’re mad at Him and would sooner spit at Him than allow
Him to offer them His mercy. I think they even feel insulted at the
idea that they need her mercy. They’d rather feel that they somehow
deserve Heaven (I’m totally getting these ideas from CS Lewis).
Because of that, their suffering cannot be reduce, for if they were
open to God’s mercy, they’d be in Purgatory, instead of Hell and would
eventually make it to Heaven.

I’d say more of the question becomes how willing a person is to suffer
through Purgatory to get to Heaven. Would they see that road of
suffering and reject it? For instance, would a Protestant who
believed that Purgatory does not exist find himself before that road
to Heaven and become angry with God for requiring that of him? Would
it lead him into despair? Some Protestants may love God so much that
they would have the humility to say “You know what. I was wrong. I’m
sorry I condemned those Catholics (if I did), I’m sorry that I didn’t
listen cuz my journey would have been a lot shorter, but now that I
know, You’re worth is God.” Or how about the lukewarm Catholic who
didn’t bother to understand his faith and did not embrace suffering or
the great graces of the sacraments? In his heart is he the type of
person who would change his pattern and say “Yes, I’ll take this road”
or would that road make Him angry and condemn Him to Hell?

I think we are judged by what we’ve been given and how we’ve used it
because it also says something about if we’re willing to take that
road through Purgatory – and then of course their’s the wonderful
realization that I can start that journey here on earth either
shortening my Purgatory of allowing this life on earth to be my
purgation.

Granted, I have to be careful because I’ve been using analogies and no
analogy quite fits all the way around the eternal. They’re just ways
to help us understand things. When we take them to the extreeme, we
often find ourselves in heresy.

 

[thistle]

Prayers for those in Hell will not change anything for those there.

 

[Ahimsa]

thistle:

Prayers for those in Hell will not change anything for those there.

But will it hurt you to offer such prayers?

 

[Orogeny]

Sure you can pray. I don’t know if it will do any good, but it certainly can’t hurt!

Peace

Tim

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

Since God exists outside of time, cannot He apply your prayers to the lifetime of the person? Thus, perhaps that person would be prevented from some serious sins. It is even possible that your prayers–even though you are praying after the death of the person–could save that person. All things are possible with God.

I say just pray for the person. Don’t presume to know whether he is in Heaven or Hell.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

How could praying and invoking God’s mercy on those who are tormented not possibly help? Sounds like a very Christian thing to do.

 

[Rebecca_New]

People in Hell could not stand to be in Heaven anymore than they could have tolerated leading a life of goodness while on Earth. It is really out of Love that God made Hell. Look at the people who are doing things that are sinful-they like it, if you tell them about God, they tell you to mind your own business.

 

[StCsDavid]

First of all…there’s no way to know that any specific individual is in Hell. As to whether you can pray for an ease of their suffering, I suppose you could, but you would be far better to pray that they never go there in the first place. Pray for God’s mercy on those you believe are heading for eternal damnation, but remember, if they end up there it is becasue of their choice to completely and totally reject God.

 

[thistle]

Ahimsa:

But will it hurt you to offer such prayers?

I offer prayers every day for those in Purgatory, not for those in Hell. Anyone in Hell chose to reject God’s love and suffers eternal damnation and nothing will change that. If you don’t know where a particular person you cared for ended up you can pray for the person. If they happen to be in Hell the prayer will not do them any good but the prayer itself would not be wasted as it would likely be used for someone in purgatory instead.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

thistle:

I offer prayers every day for those in Purgatory, not for those in Hell. Anyone in Hell chose to reject God’s love and suffers eternal damnation and nothing will change that. If you don’t know where a particular person you cared for ended up you can pray for the person. If they happen to be in Hell the prayer will not do them any good but the prayer itself would not be wasted as it would likely be used for someone in purgatory instead.

What if those in “hell” change their minds and decide to accept God’s love? Would He not forgive them and love them?

 

[Orogeny]

ReformedCatholic:

What if those in “hell” change their minds and decide to accept God’s love?

My guess is that happens as soon as they get there.

Would He not forgive them and love them?

I don’t know, but based on the story of Lazarus and the rich man, I would guess that it is too late at that point.

Peace

Tim

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

ReformedCatholic:

What if those in “hell” change their minds and decide to accept God’s love? Would He not forgive them and love them?

Not possible. The final choice is made at the judgement. At that point, they have full knowledge so the choice is final. The angels had full knowledge at their test as well. So, their choice is final as well. That is why devils cannot repent.

On earth, we are capable of repenting because we are growing (hopefully) in understanding.

However, God is so merciful and so loving, He does everything He can to help us to make the right choice. Up to the very moment of choice, He is begging us to choose Him.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

JMJ Theresa:

Not possible. The final choice is made at the judgement. At that point, they have full knowledge so the choice is final. The angels had full knowledge at their test as well. So, their choice is final as well. That is why devils cannot repent.

On earth, we are capable of repenting because we are growing (hopefully) in understanding.

However, God is so merciful and so loving, He does everything He can to help us to make the right choice. Up to the very moment of choice, He is begging us to choose Him.

So then God is not infinitely loving and forgiving?

 

[thistle]

ReformedCatholic:

So then God is not infinitely loving and forgiving?

Yes he is and we have free will to choose his love or reject it. You are implying that we can live an evil sinful life and then when we die and realise there is a God and we stand before him we can suddenly say I’m sorry let me in?? Give me a break. You have a lifetime here to choose to accept or reject his love. You make your choice in this life and have to accept the consequences of that choice when you die.
Also read Matt 8:13-14, and 21-23.

 

[DreadVandal]

Orogeny:

Sure you can pray. I don’t know if it will do any good, but it certainly can’t hurt!

Peace

Tim

The only way I would see it as hurting is that one may be praying for something that is against God’s will. We may not like the idea but when we are in heaven we will feel no sorrow for the damned. Read St. Thomas Aquinas on this, its good stuff. Also, God feels no pity for the damned.

 

[DreadVandal]

ReformedCatholic:

How could praying and invoking God’s mercy on those who are tormented not possibly help? Sounds like a very Christian thing to do.

Because they are in hell to display God’s justice and wrath toward sin. So, to lessen their suffering would be to diminish the display of God’s justice.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

thistle:

Yes he is and we have free will to choose his love or reject it. You are implying that we can live an evil sinful life and then when we die and realise there is a God and we stand before him we can suddenly say I’m sorry let me in?? Give me a break. You have a lifetime here to choose to accept or reject his love. You make your choice in this life and have to accept the consequences of that choice when you die.
Also read Matt 8:13-14, and 21-23.

But based on what you’re saying there is a limit to His forgiveness and love- that if you have not chosen Him by the time you die then you’re eternally damned with no chance for redemption. I thought this was one of the most important parts of Christ’s message- that even the “lowest” of us can be redeemed. Who says there’s a time limit?

The logic you’re using would say that a person could live an evil “sinful” (I differentiate between sinful vs. evil- we all are sinful, we all are not evil) life and then on their deathbed they can accept God’s love and there would be no problem.

My suggestion is that if someone is in “hell” and then they choose to accept God’s love and genuinely ask forgiveness and atone for their actions, that perhaps God would them bump them up to “pergatory” so that the could work off their karmic debt or whatever you call it.

My understanding of hell is that is an absence of God.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

DreadVandal:

Because they are in hell to display God’s justice and wrath toward sin. So, to lessen their suffering would be to diminish the display of God’s justice.

But I thought they were in hell because they rejected God’s love? So you’re saying that it is more important to God to “show his wrath” than to be infinitely loving and forgiving? And is God motivated by “display”- how things look?

I don’t buy into the anthropomorphism of God that occurs in the Old Testament so OT quotes don’t refute the true understanding of God as Christ gave us.

 

[mike182d]

ReformedCatholic:

But I thought they were in hell because they rejected God’s love? So you’re saying that it is more important to God to “show his wrath” than to be infinitely loving and forgiving? And is God motivated by “display”- how things look?

I don’t buy into the anthropomorphism of God that occurs in the Old Testament so OT quotes don’t refute the true understanding of God as Christ gave us.

At the same time, the OT and NT cannot contradict each other. Given the infinite, eternal nature of God, He doesn’t change His mind.

The best way I’ve heard hell explained is by means of a pathological liar. There are people who will lie about this or that in their lives or their past and if they do it so excessively, after a while, it *becomes *reality to them. Some may even develop mental conditions as they refuse to accept the true “reality” for the one they’ve created.

Sin is deception. The more and more people buy into the lie, the more and more painful the Truth is going to be and for some they cannot possibly accept it. Not because God won’t allow it, but because *they *won’t allow it. And since God is omnipresent, it is impossible, really, to be apart from God. Thus, the eternal fire by which they parish is really the infinite love of God on a heart that has refused to accept it just like the pain of a mental patient who cannot - nor will ever - accept reality.

Furthemore, God’s judgement is eternal. If its possible for people in Hell to get into heaven, its possible for Satan as well. So, unless you’re willing to start praying for Satan…