Can you talk me out of becoming a Catholic?

[mardukm]

Dear brother Spockrates,

I see you have a lot of posts under your belt and have been here for a while. I don’t spend too much time in the Non-Catholic Forum (I’m usually in the Eastern Catholicism Forum), so I’m not aware of your journey. May I ask what were you before (or now, as the case may be)?

Blessings

 

[mardukm]

Uh, no you won’t. I DO have a crucifix in my home (in the living room actually, rather than above the front door) but there’s no requirement that a Catholic have a crucifix anywhere in their home, let alone a specific location. Where did you get the idea that this was a requirement?

You have to do it to keep the evil spirits and the vampires out. You seriously don’t know that? :tsktsk:

The most practical way and most practical reason to do so is to put it on the outside, either to keep away pesky evangelists (if you want to), or to attract them in order to witness to them (if you want to).

Blessings

 

[Wordster]

OP, why would you want anyone to argue you out of something that you sound like you’re 99.9% ready to do? Are you harboring some sort of doubts way underneath, perhaps ones you can’t quite put your finger on? Are your motivations solid? (Not impugning them, mind you, just popping questions for you to pose to yourself, if you haven’t already.) Personally, I often resort to intuition in sizing things up, because, for example, let’s say you encounter a very clever lawyer or group of lawyers who can present a highly convincing story, but who’re skewing things. Without access to all the pertinent info and all their collective bra(name removed by moderator)ower, you are at their “mercy” if you go simply by the story they tell you. But intuition can often cut thru all the bombast, even if it can’t discursively/tangibly confute the supposed conclusions at hand. Or think of how long the Ptolemaic paradigm reigned (600 BC to mid-1500’s): seemingly airtight (pardon the pun). Yet it wasn’t true.

There’s that old saying, “If you have doubts, don’t.”

I have come to lose my faith…well, because…of different reasons.[Long list of problems with theodicy]

Phoenix, I’m not RC, just generic Christian, but I, too, struggle with what you enumerate there (so do Job & the Psalmists). Ultimately, though, what you’re getting at is precisely what God’s wrath will be about; maybe the rapist, or the SS, or the KGB torturer gets away with it now, but he won’t at the Judgment Day. And all the unjust suffering here now goes back to the theological “Big Bang” (The Fall) that happened back in The Garden. IOW, it’s not God’s fault.

PS: To better understand the 3-ness of God, it might help to consider how even on earth, several branches ascend out of one treetrunk; or the five fingers are all part of the unit called “hand.”

 

[Marc_Anthony]

And do you, my good Marc, realize who originally said, “Birds of a feather flock together?”

After reading through the thread, I know now!

Very interesting.

 

[Dylpickleh8]

Uh, no you won’t. I DO have a crucifix in my home (in the living room actually, rather than above the front door) but there’s no requirement that a Catholic have a crucifix anywhere in their home, let alone a specific location. Where did you get the idea that this was a requirement?

I have mine on my desk.
On second thought, I have a Russian Orthodox Crucifix icon on my wall, but nowhere near my door.

 

[WatchingMedia]

If you believe everything that is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is true; and if you have compared it with all that the bible teaches, and still believe everything that is in the Catechism, then you should become a Catholic.

Although Priscilla probably has not read the CCC, she is correct.
Look at the bottom of each page of the CCC, and you will see the footnotes referring to the corresponding Bible passages, etc.
That is what I like about Catholic Teaching documents, they reference sources.

 

[LilyM]

You have to do it to keep the evil spirits and the vampires out. You seriously don’t know that? :tsktsk:

Oh, I’ve got Holy Water (and garlic ) about the place for fighting the things-that-go-bump-in-the-night. I’m protected, never fear.

The most practical way and most practical reason to do so is to put it on the outside, either to keep away pesky evangelists (if you want to), or to attract them in order to witness to them (if you want to).

Blessings

I live on the second floor of a secure apartment building - only my immediate neighbour would see it, really.

Mind you, the volume they play their inspid music sometimes, I do feel like blasting them with a bit of maximum-decibel Gregorian Chant of a Sunday

 

[WatchingMedia]

I was first introduced the saint when I saw a quote of his in the logo for an Evangelical church. His words on the logo:

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things charity.

Is your opinion that saint’s opinion that non-essentials are matters of opinion is in unwarranted opinion?

This is what I mean. Based upon your post, you were introduced to St. Augustine in an Evangelical Church.

There are only two without sin and were perfect - Jesus, and His Mother Mary.
The rest of us can make mistakes. Also historical issues from the 3rd century influence his writings. I’m sure he wrote the truth as he saw it.
Does anyone believe that “Saints” never made mistakes during their life times, of course not. But they strived to do their best.

If you are Catholic, stick with the CCC 2nd Ed, the Roman Missal, Canon Law and the Bible, and you’ll be fine. Interpretations are left soley to the Pope and Magesterium. Not us.
#100

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Although Priscilla probably has not read the CCC, she is correct.
Look at the bottom of each page of the CCC, and you will see the footnotes referring to the corresponding Bible passages, etc.
That is what I like about Catholic Teaching documents, they reference sources.

Yes, I do have a copy. Yes, I have read it.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Thank you, Rich. I don’t see any reason why not to become Catholic, there.

You got me!

I walked into an RCIA class in Logan Utah 12 years ago or so. I have been helping with it ever since. In the last few weeks I have been thinking about Forgiveness. If you feel as if you need it and also want to give it then I would say walk into the RCIA as this door is open.

Like most of us who have gone in you will wonder in time why not sooner. But it’s always the right time as it is always in His time. You know about Christmas and Easter and most everything in between. Christmas – Christ-Mass

Holidays – Holy-Days

I have celebrated these times for years and years with my secular family. But it all became very much real and so much alive when I entered into the Catholic Church. I remember thinking “Oh this is where it comes from” my first Midnight Mass comes to mind. All of a sudden I was really there. Christmas!

I remember when I was in the RCIA asking so many questions, getting some pretty sound answers. When I started feeling as if I was home I said:

"This is like coming over the rise and seeing the ocean for the very first time”

A Catholic said to me “that is good, but its much better to swim in it”
The Holy Trinity comes to mind.

Jump in and swim

Pick any cross you like,
www.chooseyourcross.com
No Cost to you. Jesus asked me to give one to you, that He has paid for it already!. Let me know what Parish to send it to in your name. Then you can go and pick it up. Any one of them! I will make it and send it.
In Christ
Rich
www.utahmission.com

 

[spockrates]

Hi spockrates. Live long and prosper.

You may have missed my earlier post. I will simplify it.

If you believe what the Catholic church claims concerning itself and by extension all other Christian organizations, then you should become a Catholic. If not, then you should not.

Beam me up Scotty.

Good to see you again, Pianist! Sorry I missed your post. Yes, I agree I should go where the truth leads me, even if that truth seems as impossible as science fiction.

 

[spockrates]

Yes…I do agree.
But WHOSE truth?

You (not you personally, I am referring to your church) claim to have the truth. Sad to say, I’m not convinced. Not hardly. Perhaps I’m spiritually blind.

Or perhaps I am looking for a more tolerant and forgiving spiritual reality, and as my kid says, it’s like believing in fairies and unicorns. They/it doesn’t exist.

Perhaps. Or maybe it’s like my kid said when he was younger, “I know God exists, because every question I’ve ever asked about him has an answer.”

Please let me ask you this, Phoenix: In all the libraries and databases in all the world how much information contained in them do you actually know? Would you say less than one tenth of one percent?

 

[spockrates]

Your asking people to do something that will result in a ban.

That said: “No, don’t so it. You are making the biggest mistake of your life.”

To the mods: The above is a joke and not an attempt to proselytize.

I know one person who was banned after five years on the forum. This fellow spent much time discussing Catholicism and expressing his doubts and asking tough questions and explaining why he was not convinced that the Catholic faith is the true faith. What got him banned were not his objections to Catholicism, but his blatantly crossing the line in a discussion about pedophilia, and he admitded this.

Now, unless the rules have changed, or unless they are not applied equally and thus equitably, I’d say it is pretty safe to give an honest opinion as to why one has doubts Catholicism is God’s religion. Then again, perhaps it is the method one employs? If one plays the part of a protagonist, saying his religion is the right religion and no one can convince him otherwise, then perhaps such a one would be viewed in a different light from the fellow I mentioned who said he was not 100% sure what the truth is, but he was sure he had good reasons to doubt what much of what Catholics believe is truth.

That’s what I’m asking. Does anyone have a good reason to doubt Catholicism? It’s like I’m the groom, standing at the alter, and I’m asking others if they know of any reason why this man should not be joined to this faith in holy matrimony. I’m asking others to speak now, or for ever hold their peace.

---

But perhaps it will not be misconstrued as proselytizing if I were to ask you why you are not a Catholic, or why you are a Pagan? Surely you’ve answered that question of others on this forum and have not been banned for sincerely answering!

 

[spockrates]

There’s the no meat on lenten fridays thing, but that’s easy enough…
(People look at you funny if you freak out because you’re not sure if the dish has meat.)
If you can handle that, you can handle anything.

I suppose that’s nothing compared to the persecution vegetarians put up with!

 

[spockrates]

Dear brother Spockrates,

I see you have a lot of posts under your belt and have been here for a while. I don’t spend too much time in the Non-Catholic Forum (I’m usually in the Eastern Catholicism Forum), so I’m not aware of your journey. May I ask what were you before (or now, as the case may be)?

Blessings

Mardukm:

I was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic. Left the Catholic Church and became agnostic. Later became a born-again Fundamentalist Baptist while serving overseas in the US Army. Was discharged from the Army and became a non-practicing Protestant. Graduated with a BA, married my wife, fathered two sons, and became an Evangelical. Left the Evangelical faith and am now seriously considering returning to the Catholic Church. What’s your story?

 

[spockrates]

OP, why would you want anyone to argue you out of something that you sound like you’re 99.9% ready to do? …

P63: See P73.

 

[spockrates]

After reading through the thread, I know now!

Very interesting.

Thanks. I find this quote equally interesting, and also applicable to our current discussion:

In any case, the question we’ve got to consider is not who said it, but whether or not the statement is true.

–Socrates (Charmides, 161)

 

[spockrates]

This is what I mean. Based upon your post, you were introduced to St. Augustine in an Evangelical Church.

There are only two without sin and were perfect - Jesus, and His Mother Mary.
The rest of us can make mistakes. Also historical issues from the 3rd century influence his writings. I’m sure he wrote the truth as he saw it.
Does anyone believe that “Saints” never made mistakes during their life times, of course not. But they strived to do their best.

If you are Catholic, stick with the CCC 2nd Ed, the Roman Missal, Canon Law and the Bible, and you’ll be fine. Interpretations are left soley to the Pope and Magesterium. Not us.
#100

So are you saying you disagree with the venerated Church Father’s assertion that there are any non-essential doctrines? Or are you saying there are non-essential doctrines, but you disagree with the saint’s belief that it’s OK for Catholics to agree to disagree about such non-essentials?

 

[spockrates]

You got me!

I walked into an RCIA class in Logan Utah 12 years ago or so. I have been helping with it ever since. In the last few weeks I have been thinking about Forgiveness. If you feel as if you need it and also want to give it then I would say walk into the RCIA as this door is open.

Like most of us who have gone in you will wonder in time why not sooner. But it’s always the right time as it is always in His time. You know about Christmas and Easter and most everything in between. Christmas – Christ-Mass

Holidays – Holy-Days

I have celebrated these times for years and years with my secular family. But it all became very much real and so much alive when I entered into the Catholic Church. I remember thinking “Oh this is where it comes from” my first Midnight Mass comes to mind. All of a sudden I was really there. Christmas!

I remember when I was in the RCIA asking so many questions, getting some pretty sound answers. When I started feeling as if I was home I said:

"This is like coming over the rise and seeing the ocean for the very first time”

A Catholic said to me “that is good, but its much better to swim in it”
The Holy Trinity comes to mind.

Jump in and swim

Pick any cross you like,
www.chooseyourcross.com
No Cost to you. Jesus asked me to give one to you, that He has paid for it already!. Let me know what Parish to send it to in your name. Then you can go and pick it up. Any one of them! I will make it and send it.
In Christ
Rich
www.utahmission.com

By saying the door is open do you mean I can just show up unannounced?

 

[pigtown]

As for the question of whether or not to become Catholic, I have a question for you. Have you ever read the Bible? Do you realize that the version that Protestants read is not the entire Bible? Do you know that there are 7 books in the Catholic versions that have been removed from the Protestant Bible? Read a Catholic version and you’ll get the entire Bible. The Catholic Church has the Truth in its entirety. After all, the Bible is the Inspired Word of God so why not have the entire version and not just parts and pieces?
Good luck on your road to the Catholic Church.
Welcome!