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MelanieAnne
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pigtown
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Your welcome, Spockrates. I wondered about those missing books and found this information to be very interesting and informative. Hope it helps you also. Join our Catholic Church. You will, hopefully, find what you are missing.Thanks Pig.
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Gabriel_of_12
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I make no confusion about faith here; There is no faith to build on this new (faith) way yet; until Simons name is changed to Peter ( Simons faith is the sign from heaven for Jesus to begin building his Church). God had revealed Jesus to Simon and chose him from heaven, Jesus acts from this sign from heaven by changing Simon to Peter.spockrates;6765152 said:
Peter never makes a profession of faith for Jesus to build his church upon. Simon makes the profession of faith, but Jesus changes Simon to Peter." The faith" you introduced here from Simons faith in Jesus begins it’s course upon Peter, of whom Jesus is building his Church, never Simon bar Jona’s faith does Jesus begin building his Church, only when Jesus changes Simons name to Peter is when Jesus begins to build his church.
Mt. 16:17
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. **For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. **
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And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
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I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Please read what Jesus states from John 5:34 “** I do not accept testimony from a human being, **but I say this so that you may be saved”.
Jesus does not need mans faith to build his church. The Word of God takes dust and water and breathes life into it and so it lives. Jesus the Word of God now speaks to Simon and changes him into Peter to be with him until the end of the world.
Luke 19:38
They proclaimed: “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord. 7 Peace in heaven and glory in the highest.”
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Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples.” 8
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He said in reply, **“I tell you, if they keep silent, the stones will cry out!” **
I don’t disagree with your description of faith between what is professed and what is believed in; From Mt.16 faith initiates, God does the action of changing Simon to Peter. God is not building his church upon “faith only”, God is building his church upon the new person of Peter never Simons faith which initiated the change to Peter. God’s will be done, should Simon had kept silent, the rocks would of cried out. God could of chose rocks had they cried out to build his church upon, but instead Simon professed who Jesus was, and Jesus changed Simon into a Rock which Jesus confessed to build his Church.
Peace be with you
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cyberwolf001
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No but I have got plenty of warnings for “Proselytizing” and having a “anti-Catholic,I know one person who was banned after five years on the forum. This fellow spent much time discussing Catholicism and expressing his doubts and asking tough questions and explaining why he was not convinced that the Catholic faith is the true faith. What got him banned were not his objections to Catholicism, but his blatantly crossing the line in a discussion about pedophilia, and he admitded this.
Now, unless the rules have changed, or unless they are not applied equally and thus equitably, I’d say it is pretty safe to give an honest opinion as to why one has doubts Catholicism is God’s religion. Then again, perhaps it is the method one employs? If one plays the part of a protagonist, saying his religion is the right religion and no one can convince him otherwise, then perhaps such a one would be viewed in a different light from the fellow I mentioned who said he was not 100% sure what the truth is, but he was sure he had good reasons to doubt what much of what Catholics believe is truth.
That’s what I’m asking. Does anyone have a good reason to doubt Catholicism? It’s like I’m the groom, standing at the alter, and I’m asking others if they know of any reason why this man should not be joined to this faith in holy matrimony. I’m asking others to speak now, or for ever hold their peace.
But perhaps it will not be misconstrued as proselytizing if I were to ask you why you are not a Catholic, or why you are a Pagan? Surely you’ve answered that question of others on this forum and have not been banned for sincerely answering!
Pro-Pagan Agenda.” Particularly after posting a series of articles showing that Pagans are not just teenagers incapable of holding a respectable job and following a fad.
Mind you this only increased my own Pagan faith. I mean if they can only build a straw man of Paganism (see the This Rock article on Pagan Apologetics) and must censor anyone that really rips the straw man apart, well how can they possibly affect Pagans off this forum where moderators won’t be around to control the debate?
Off topic.Pig:
My answer to you: Yes, yes, yes, and I believe the Protestant answer is that they believe the seven removed disagree with the 66 that remain, and so must not be inspired.
Thanks for the welcome!
This is not necessarily the case. There were many Catholic theologians from St. Jerome to Cardinal Cajetan who did not believe they were equal to the canon. Clearly they had other reasons, not because they thought they conflicted with the other 66.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.
Jon
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wmscott
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Off topic first then back on topic:
Off topic, The Church Fathers and theologians who expressed reservations about the deuterocanon were expressing their private opinions about the deuterocanon and they were just that: private opinions. The overwhelming majority of Church Fathers and other early Christian writers regarded the deuterocanonical books as having exactly the same inspired, scriptural status as the other Old Testament books. In his later years St. Jerome did indeed accept the Deuterocanonical books of the Bible. In fact, he wound up strenuously defending their status as inspired Scripture, writing, St Jerome goes on to state “What sin have I committed if I followed the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susanna, the Son of the Three Children, and the story of Bel and the Dragon, which are not found in the Hebrew volume (ie. canon), proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. For I wasn’t relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they [the Jews] are wont to make against us” (Against Rufinus 11:33 [A.D. 402]). LINK
On topic, I would just like to say that I am surprised and impressed by the comments left by our non-Catholic brothers and sisters. They have been very charitable and supportive of a person who is on their spiritual journey with the exception of a few valed jabs. In every case Pray and trust in the Holy Spirit, the same advice I would give if someone was trying to find where they belonged. Kudos to all.
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Contarini
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I am not very interested in talking people out of becoming Catholic, but perhaps you should make sure you have given serious attention to the claims of Eastern Orthodoxy first.I’m pretty sure I’m making the right decision, but I’d like to hear any reasons why I should not become Catholic. Anyone have any thoughts?
On the other hand, if you are a Western Christian, then the Catholic Church is in a sense the more “natural” place to return to.
I would also caution against assuming that Catholicism has “all the answers” and that everything will be clear and simple. Catholic apologetics often do not do justice to the complexity and uncertainty present within Catholicism.
Edwin
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Contarini
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That’s a very serious reason to think carefully. (I share it.)If it were just me, there’d be no fear nor worries. But one close to me will find my change more fearful and worrisome than I. It will turn her world upside down.
Another consideration is whether you are presently involved in a Christian community. Such ties should not be lightly broken.
Edwin
You are absolutely correct, Edwin. My brother remains in the ELCA, despite his strident disagreement over the events at last year’s Churchwide Assembly. His reason is he finds it quite difficult to break ties with the local parish he is a member of. That distance way from synod headquarters, the part of the Church that touches him is the local congregation.
Jon
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Contarini
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Yes–I cringe when my conservative friends/acquaintances say in tones of disbelief, “You’re *still *an Episcopalian?” I almost left the Episcopal Church in 2003 when I got married and moved to NJ. But my wife had already started attending the local Episcopal church; I had no interest in being part of a new Anglican church plant, given my abhorrence of schism and the existence of plenty of orthodox churches in the area; I didn’t want to join the Calvinistic Reformed Episcopal Church, or for that matter any conservative Protestant church; and becoming Catholic or Orthodox would have caused stress in my new marriage. So with many misgivings, I attended the local Episcopal church for the three years I lived there. Then when I moved to Indiana, the local Episcopal church was much more orthodox. I am now heavily involved in that parish (I’m on the vestry and I play the organ, and I was a delegate to Diocesan Convention last year and will be again this year), and I appreciate my local priest and bishop very much.
If I were to move to a new place, I don’t think I’d go on being Episcopalian. But admittedly I’ve said that before, and it keeps sucking me back in.
Edwin
Moving makes a change easier, for sure. When we moved to NC ten or so years ago, the only Lutheran Church here was LCMS. I was already having many doubts about the ELCA, so it was quite fortunate timing.
And while I like my local congregation, it is not as orthodox as I would prefer. There is a local ACA (TAC) Anglican Church here I am quite interested in trying, but this church is so good to us, they have helped my daughter with college expenses, etc., and the pastor is a fine man who I can talk to about my desire for more orthodox Lutheran practices.
It is tough to make a move.
Jon
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qui_est_ce
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What will happen when your pastor moves on? What will happen when the congregation splits on an issue?Moving makes a change easier, for sure. When we moved to NC ten or so years ago, the only Lutheran Church here was LCMS. I was already having many doubts about the ELCA, so it was quite fortunate timing.
And while I like my local congregation, it is not as orthodox as I would prefer. There is a local ACA (TAC) Anglican Church here I am quite interested in trying, but this church is so good to us, they have helped my daughter with college expenses, etc., and the pastor is a fine man who I can talk to about my desire for more orthodox Lutheran practices.
It is tough to make a move.
Jon
I mean no criticism. I find myself in that trap, and so do many Catholics whose parishes have closed. We belong to something bigger.
Is the sale of KFUO-FM/Classic 99 causing any problems in your area of the country?
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RebeccaJ
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By signing up for RCIA, you are not committing to returning to Catholicism. I signed up with the intent to learn more about Catholicism, with no intention to be baptized. God had other plans.LOL! That I have, JM; that I have. Maybe I’m just afraid to make the swim? I suppose it will be one giant leap for me to sign up for RCIA.
My husband is atheist, as was I, and I was worried about religion splitting us up. So was he. So, we determined to not let it happen.
I went to RCIA, and when I did decide to be baptized, I just said I’ve decided to be baptized. It was very scary, but fear of something is not a good reason to not do what you know you need and should do. At least for me, I can’t live that way.
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Contarini
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And I attended RCIA off and on for a couple of years, eventually being a candidate for admission for two months before dropping out. No pressure was ever put on me. In fact I rather wish that the priest and lay catechists *had *given me a hard time about dropping outBy signing up for RCIA, you are not committing to returning to Catholicism. I signed up with the intent to learn more about Catholicism, with no intention to be baptized. God had other plans.
Edwin
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RebeccaJ
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But they won’t.And I attended RCIA off and on for a couple of years, eventually being a candidate for admission for two months before dropping out. No pressure was ever put on me. In fact I rather wish that the priest and lay catechists *had *given me a hard time about dropping out
Edwin
I help out with our RCIA now, and pressuring someone to be baptized is not on the schedule! We teach, pray, read scripture and let God do the rest. If He is calling someone to baptism, they will hear.To the point of moving as a convenient time for religious change. I thought I was the only one who did that. I was raised LDS and when I moved out of my parent’s house, I left mormonism. It wasn’t practical or possible for becoming Catholic. Just had to do it. It was not as scary as I thought. Not scary at all really. As a friend of mine says, we fear those monsters under the bed.
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qui_est_ce
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A lot of Catholics here are giving you a hard time, thoughAnd I attended RCIA off and on for a couple of years, eventually being a candidate for admission for two months before dropping out. No pressure was ever put on me. In fact I rather wish that the priest and lay catechists *had *given me a hard time about dropping out
Edwin
.I’m not wondering if, so much as when.
Yes, we do, too.
When the pastor moves on, we will use the synod offices (more specifically our district), to call another pastor. He might come from another church, or he may come from the seminary, but he must be ordained by LCMS.
In the matter of dispute, the district is there to mediate. If it is an issue of Church teaching
the parish is bound to the Lutheran Confessions, and the determination by our district or synod.
You know, I hear more banter about that online than in my home congregation, probably because is not on any local station here. I know some are not particularly happy about it, and I suspect that would be in the areas where there is a much larger Lutheran population.
Jon
He’s no Lone Ranger when it comes to that.A lot of Catholics here are giving you a hard time, though
Jon
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qui_est_ce
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You mentioned one of your reasons for staying in your church was your pastor.
I was curious if your staying there is bigger than the pastor and the congregation.
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