It means it is not an officially Catholic organization.It should read Excommunicated Catholics for Choice.If they were baptised Catholic they individually remain Catholic no matter how black their souls are and because they have had the Special Grace of being born Catholic then rejecting a major tenant of the Faith they will have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do at their Judgement and I would not want to be in their shoes for ANYTHING.
Zatzat, the bishops were not referring to persons, but to an organization. While sprinkling CFFC with holy water might not be bad idea, I don’t think it has ever been baptized.
You hit it right on the head. It’s a shell game the church plays with regard to who is “Cathlolic” vs “real Catholic.” On the one hand, they love to crow about having 1.3 Billion members, which they can do because their canon law says any human who ever had water splashed on them by a priest is Catholic forever. Doesn’t matter if you never practiced it, or don’t believe any of it, or find the whole deal an affront to your conscience. Doesn’t matter if you formally renounce it. You’re strapped in for the Billion Year Contract ala Scientology. Silly, I know, but so far logically consistent silliness.
Protestant have the right to define their faith; Catholics do not. Not that many Catholics don’t (wrongly) exercise the right of private judgment that is part and parcel of Protestantism. The label is “Cafeteria Catholics.”Unfortunately for the Bishops, they also say that anyone who is baptized a Catholic is aways a Catholic, thus capable of using the term “Catholic” to describe themselves.
The Bishops can talk about what they believe and teach Catholics “should” be, but that doesn’t diminish the fact that Catholics “are” a whole lot more than that. They can’t have their cake and eat it too, by switching definitions when it suits them.
Or they can find a loophole in the theology that lets people cease being Catholic.
Why do you make a simple matter hard? Anyone who raises his hand and sears an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States is not spared from the consequences of breaking that oath if he is found out. That does not mean he is no longer an American, It only means he is a bad or a faithless one. This is especially true if he attempts to set up a government opposed to the legitimate one. "Catholics for Choice are not mere dissenters: they are Catholics who oppose the Magisterium and are its rivals for the loyalty of Catholics.
They are self declared excommunicated Catholics who are the enemies of the Church and deserve to be exposed for what they are-disobedient Catholics who are not in communion with the church and use the nane"catholic"to cause confusion and scandal and they will forfeit theirsouls if they do not repent.I am not judging them but their actions and they are in deep,deep,trouble and they merit our prayer.They have sinned and mortally.I would bet that each one meets the three requirements for grave sin.If they want to spend eternity weeping and gnashing their teeth it is up to them.God Damns no one we damn ourselves…
It’s not a simple matter for the fact that most of us “ex” or rebellious Catholics never had the opportunity to make an informed, adult choice to support and defend the faith. To break a vow and act in bad faith demands that you first made an oath in good faith, that is, of free will. Back to your example of citizenship, it’s why we have officholders and soldiers etc swear out a real oath in adulthood. Yes, the fact that they were born American sort of implies that they will have sympathies and loyalties accordingly, but we want to hear it from them as adults, when we know (or reasonably expect) that they understand the implications of what they promise.
Well spoken. I personally disagree with abortion, but I also disagree with the Catholic church’s claim to people after they’ve made it clear they don’t want to be part of it. While I disagree with the group’s goals, I support their right to call themselves Catholics as long as the Vatican continues to insist that they are Catholic no matter what.
Funny, I don’t see that term in the Catechism anywhere.
That said, even the term Cafeteria Catholic acknowledges their right to use the word Catholic to describe themselves.It is important to note that a person can renounce their citizenship and both they and the US government will accept that if done properly.Afterwards it is clear that the person is not American and has no call to use that term to describe themself. Were the Vatican to be that reasonable there would be no problem here-the members could be declared non-Catholic and the whole issue could be resolved. The problem only occurs because of the Vatican insisting on having its cake and eating it too.
I agree 100% that it is within the purview of the Bishops to clearly state that these people are not officially related to the College and that the Bishops disagree with their goals and intentions. I also agree that supporting abortion is likely to earn them God’s displeasure.
They are self declared excommunicated Catholics
If you could convince the Magisterium to come around to your way of thinking and state that one can cease to be Catholic it would certainly solve the problem. Why don’t you suggest it to them? Until then"once Catholic, always Catholic" is the rule of thumb we operate under.
A great many Catholics–you may not be one of them—have received the sacrament of confirmation as teenagers. They are not much younger than the young Marines who got to war. Of course in a society where we allow 25 year olds to pretend they are not adults, this may be said not to matter. But I disagree. They were old enough to make a choice. Not so long ago, in societies less comfortable, fifteen year old nobles led troops, and their feudal levies contained men no older than that. No, the problem is that they have been taught false doctrine and refuse to accept now that they were misled.
Why do you use the term “Vatican” as if the Vatican were just like a governmental agency Do you think that all Catholics are "citizens of the Vatican?Well spoken. I personally disagree with abortion, but I also disagree with the Catholic church’s claim to people after they’ve made it clear they don’t want to be part of it. While I disagree with the group’s goals, I support their right to call themselves Catholics as long as the Vatican continues to insist that they are Catholic no matter what.
Funny, I don’t see that term in the Catechism anywhere.
It is important to note that a person can renounce their citizenship and both they and the US government will accept that if done properly.Afterwards it is clear that the person is not American and has no call to use that term to describe themself. Were the Vatican to be that reasonable there would be no problem here-the members could be declared non-Catholic and the whole issue could be resolved. The problem only occurs because of the Vatican insisting on having its cake and eating it too.
Beyond that, many people renounce their citizenship as informally as many Catholics leave the Church. They marry foreigners and sever their connections without our government ever being aware of it. The US doesn’t write them off formally, and they certainly don’t turn in their passports. Only if some legal need is there a formal breech. Even the IRS, believe it or not, just loses contact with people.I used Vatican because it was one of the Pontifical Councils, in consultation with the CDF, as well as a further clarifying missive from Benedict XVI that clearly stated that ones membership in the church continued inspite of any act to the contrary (albeit with certain penalties depending on the circumstances). I did that to clarify their action from that of the CCCB, who issued the message referred to in the OP.Why do you use the term “Vatican” as if the Vatican were just like a governmental agency Do you think that all Catholics are "citizens of the Vatican?
Yet, while insisting that people can never actually stop being Catholics, the is a desire to tell these people that they shouldn’t call themselves Catholics because they don’t believe the same things as other Catholics. So it’s quite simple, if there are people that the hierarchy would rather not have referred to as Catholics, then stop insisting they will always be Catholics.
You may my point: in a court of law individuals who simply abandon their claims to be American will lose. But lots of soujourners in the world manage to "blend"into the local population, takeon new identities, so to speak, and yet do not give up their passports, and even renew it, all at the sam time enjoying the benefits of being an Italian. etc. We may not accept dual citizenship, other countries do, still others are indifferent.I used Vatican because it was one of the Pontifical Councils, in consultation with the CDF, as well as a further clarifying missive from Benedict XVI that clearly stated that ones membership in the church continued inspite of any act to the contrary (albeit with certain penalties depending on the circumstances). I did that to clarify their action from that of the CCCB, who issued the message referred to in the OP.
While you claim that many renounce their US citizenship informally, such isn’t the case. There were a number of individuals who sought to avoid their obligations during the Vietnam war by casually “renouncing” their US citizenship in Canada. The only way to cease being a citizen is to formally renounce that citizenship and have that renunciation accepted. US citizens have a method to do that, Canadian citizens have a method to do that, as do most citizens of countries around the world.
The Vatican states that with regard to membership in the Catholic church, there is no such renunciation possible. Much like the Eagles song “Hotel California”
Yet, while insisting that people can never actually stop being Catholics, the is a desire to tell these people that they shouldn’t call themselves Catholics because they don’t believe the same things as other Catholics. So it’s quite simple, if there are people that the hierarchy would rather not have referred to as Catholics, then stop insisting they will always be Catholics.
Otherwise, if the hierarchy wishes to continue to insist that these people will always be Catholics, it should get used to a future where it will have to share the name Catholic with groups of differing beliefs. It’s quite simple, really.