Canadian Bishops: “Catholics for Choice” is Not Catholic

[Non_Serviam]

You may my point: in a court of law individuals who simply abandon their claims to be American will lose. But lots of soujourners in the world manage to "blend"into the local population, takeon new identities, so to speak, and yet do not give up their passports, and even renew it, all at the sam time enjoying the benefits of being an Italian. etc. We may not accept dual citizenship, other countries do, still others are indifferent.

As to claiming they are always “Catholic.” Well, all men “belong” to Christ, even, it might be said, even those in hell. Christ is our true king, and the pope is his vicar.

You do realize there is a formal way to renounce US citizenship? travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html it is very clear and straightforward, and absent certain outstanding obligations, once the renunciation is properly done, one is no longer a citizen of the US. There is no ned to go through the foolishness of hiding, the US has made it possible to leave.

The Vatican hasn’t been as reasonable with regard to leaving the Catholic church, so these people are Catholics (no quotation marks) whether that pleases you or not. If you don’t like that, complain to the Vatican-they made the rule.

To quote:

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

Anyhow, I need to get ready for some surgery tomorrow, so I won’t be replying for the next day or so. Take care.

 

[Ockham]

How about “Catholic Atheists”, or “Catholic Satanists”? Are these members in good standing too? At what point do the terms become contradictory?

You can’t be Catholic and condone infanticide anymore than to worship the devil.

 

[RobbyS]

You do realize there is a formal way to renounce US citizenship? travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html it is very clear and straightforward, and absent certain outstanding obligations, once the renunciation is properly done, one is no longer a citizen of the US. There is no ned to go through the foolishness of hiding, the US has made it possible to leave.

The Vatican hasn’t been as reasonable with regard to leaving the Catholic church, so these people are Catholics (no quotation marks) whether that pleases you or not. If you don’t like that, complain to the Vatican-they made the rule.

To quote:​

Who said anything about wanting to hide? If you don’t tell the US government, they won’t know. There are plenty of people in this world who carry both an American and a foreign passport and use which of them is the more convenient.

But let us forget the analogy since you carry it too far. If they are members of the Church, they are members of Christ’s body. Baptism leaves a mark on the soul, so it is an intervention that alters their soul forever. Even the souls in hell possess its mark, even if for them it is only a scar.

Good wishes on recovery.

 

[gus]

You do realize there is a formal way to renounce US citizenship? travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html it is very clear and straightforward, and absent certain outstanding obligations, once the renunciation is properly done, one is no longer a citizen of the US. There is no ned to go through the foolishness of hiding, the US has made it possible to leave.

The Vatican hasn’t been as reasonable with regard to leaving the Catholic church, so these people are Catholics (no quotation marks) whether that pleases you or not. If you don’t like that, complain to the Vatican-they made the rule.

To quote:

You seem to be the one that wants it both ways
I wonder what your point really is?

Anyhow, I need to get ready for some surgery tomorrow, so I won’t be replying for the next day or so. Take care.

 

[Non_Serviam]

How about “Catholic Atheists”, or “Catholic Satanists”? Are these members in good standing too? At what point do the terms become contradictory?

You can’t be Catholic and condone infanticide anymore than to worship the devil.

First off, if you read the previous posts, no one said that these people would be considered to be in “good standing”, just that the Vatican considers them to be Catholics, and as such they have a right to use the term to describe themselves.

Likewise the Conference of Bishops has every right to issue a communiqué as they did, clarifying the status of the individuals (not in good standing) and making it clear that they are in no way related to the Conference.

Who said anything about wanting to hide? If you don’t tell the US government, they won’t know. There are plenty of people in this world who carry both an American and a foreign passport and use which of them is the more convenient.

But let us forget the analogy since you carry it too far. If they are members of the Church, they are members of Christ’s body. Baptism leaves a mark on the soul, so it is an intervention that alters their soul forever. Even the souls in hell possess its mark, even if for them it is only a scar.

Good wishes on recovery.

Thanks for your good wishes, I’m doing quite well after a couple of days of solid rest and healing.

You are correct that it is Baptism upon which the Vatican makes its claim that these people are always Catholics-not necessarily in good standing, but that they are. What I’m saying is if the Bishops eventually finds it burdensome enough to share the term “Catholic” with all of these people who disagree with their teachings, they may find some loophole through which these people can cease being Catholic and then they would no longer have reason to use the term to describe themselves.