Canadian Family Fights to Keep Boy's Breathing Tube in Place

[JimR-OCDS]

There is nothing a doctor, the parents, or the government can do to make the child live. That is the point here.

And just in case you missed it in your own article, the doctors are the ones who are saying this, not the government. The doctors are the ones making the petition because the parents are refusing to accept reality. Doctors can’t make life when someone’s all but dead. Only God can, and it looks like He’s calling little Joseph home.

Also its important for us to keep in mind that the doctors and the hospital can not present their side of the issue because of confidentiality laws.

So, we’re only getting the parents side via an attorney, and Fox News spin.

Jim

 

[momor]

Catholics, I hate to be the one who has to bluntly say this—who the hell is some government panel to make this decision on the life of this child—if the parents want to move their child to another hospital—why is the government involved?

What is wrong with some of you people in Canada that you would allow a government panel to make a decision on your life or any of your family members?

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that the parents were free to move the child, the Canadian hospital cooperated, and the other hospital wouldn’t take him. You see it as a govt conspiracy. Others see it as one hospital agreeing with the other that his care is appropriate.

Why do you have to persist in making this a political issue instead of a medical one? Do you honestly believe that parents are never wrong about what’s best for their child? Do you reject the notion that doctors and hospitals and courts are sometimes required to step in and speak for the child who cannot speak for himself?

As long as you see this as parents against the “govt” instead of doctors trying to do what is medically best for the child you will continue to have a paranoid and skewed view.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that the parents were free to move the child, the Canadian hospital cooperated, and the other hospital wouldn’t take him. You see it as a govt conspiracy. Others see it as one hospital agreeing with the other that his care is appropriate.

Why do you have to persist in making this a political issue instead of a medical one? Do you honestly believe that parents are never wrong about what’s best for their child? Do you reject the notion that doctors and hospitals and courts are sometimes required to step in and speak for the child who cannot speak for himself?

As long as you see this as parents against the “govt” instead of doctors trying to do what is medically best for the child you will continue to have a paranoid and skewed view.

Again you and a few others are missing the point it was not the doctors that made the final decision.

IT WAS A GOVERNMENT PANEL!

 

[momor]

Again you and a few others are missing the point it was not the doctors that made the final decision.

IT WAS A GOVERNMENT PANEL!

It wasn’t a death panel. From the article you posted:

…A Superior Court judge, in turn, ordered that Maraachli’s breathing tube be removed on Monday…

If it went to a court decision it is because it was a matter of the doctors and hospital seeking to get a decision for the benefit of the child.

 

[donsnow]

Hi, Stan,

I came here from the World News thread about this boy.

Since Momor doesn’t show her location, I don’t know if she’s an American or Canadian nurse, which makes a big difference.

I’d just like to say, that when the government has the control it has in Canada over the medical and insurance fields, then those fields have been politicized and every case in those fields is burdened with being political because of the government’s presence.

I am Catholic and then an American. Then, after that, I choose what our government may or may not do. Citizens must limit government is they are to be free.

One fact stands out about this: the boy is not free to go home. The parents are not free to take him home. The child is dying, already, so what possible issue of miscare by parents could possibly prevail? The whole scenario is government control NOT care of patients.
The government does not know better than a parent.
God put children into parent’s authority and the biggest mistake that parents make is relinquishing that authority to educational and medical officials. Imho.

Anyway, Momor, where ever your are, freedom is always an issue: especially when there’s less freedom, it becomes more the issue.

God loves you,
Don

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

Hi, Stan,

I came here from the World News thread about this boy.

Since Momor doesn’t show her location, I don’t know if she’s an American or Canadian nurse, which makes a big difference.

I’d just like to say, that when the government has the control it has in Canada over the medical and insurance fields, then those fields have been politicized and every case in those fields is burdened with being political because of the government’s presence.

I am Catholic and then an American. Then, after that, I choose what our government may or may not do. Citizens must limit government is they are to be free.

One fact stands out about this: the boy is not free to go home. The parents are not free to take him home. The child is dying, already, so what possible issue of miscare by parents could possibly prevail? The whole scenario is government control NOT care of patients.
The government does not know better than a parent.
God put children into parent’s authority and the biggest mistake that parents make is relinquishing that authority to educational and medical officials. Imho.

Anyway, Momor, where ever your are, freedom is always an issue: especially when there’s less freedom, it becomes more the issue.

God loves you,
Don

As usual Don as most of you Marines—you see the logic.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

It wasn’t a death panel. From the article you posted:

…A Superior Court judge, in turn, ordered that Maraachli’s breathing tube be removed on Monday…

If it went to a court decision it is because it was a matter of the doctors and hospital seeking to get a decision for the benefit of the child.

I don’t see how it can benefit the child when a government panel ordered the hospital to pull the plug.

I had to make a decision in March of 2000 for my wife of 23 years—I told the hospital not to resuscitate once her heart stopped. I also had the right to move her to another hospital if I wanted too.

I DID IT! I MADE THE DECISION; NOT SOME GOVERNMENT PANEL! NOT SOME GOVERNMENT JUDGE!

The government needs to stay the hell out of these life and death decisions—period!

Check out my photos for a photo of her here on CAF if you think I’m lying

 

[donsnow]

As usual Don as most of you Marines—you see the logic.

Thanks, Stan,

Actually, I just try to seek the whole truth and a lot of times there’s more than only two sides to a story. I think this story is one of those times.

Go Army!

God loves you,
Don

 

[momor]

I don’t see how it can benefit the child when a government panel ordered the hospital to pull the plug.

I had to make a decision in March of 2000 for my wife of 23 years—I told the hospital not to resuscitate once her heart stopped. I also had the right to move her to another hospital if I wanted too.

I DID IT! I MADE THE DECISION; NOT SOME GOVERNMENT PANEL! NOT SOME GOVERNMENT JUDGE!

The government needs to stay the hell out of these life and death decisions—period!

Check out my photos for a photo of her here on CAF if you think I’m lying

I’m sorry about your wife.

For the last time there was no govt death panel. The doctors advised the parents that it was in the childs best interest to remove life support. The parents agreed except for how that would happen. Clearly the doctors did not think the parents wishes were in the childs best interest and refused to go along. Then things got adversarial. An ethics panel got involved and agreed with the doctors. The parents continued to dispute the findings and it went to a court proceeding where the doctors opinion was upheld again by a judge.

No govt death panel went roaming the halls looking for over-utilizers to take off life support to save some money. This whole dispute began between the parents and the doctors. Progressive steps were then taken to resolve the disagreement. The Canadian hospital cooperated with the parents wish to transfer their child to another hospital by sending the childs medical records to Michigan for review. That hospital refused to take the child. Now the parents have dug in their heels, supported by a euthanasia group, and the poor child seems to be lost in the political uproar.

The courts have every right to be involved when there is disagreement about what is best for a patient who cannot speak for themselves. I’m sure you supported Terry Schiavo’s parents going to court to stop the removal of the feeding tube (as did I).

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

lifesitenews.com/news/fr-pavone-the-terri-schiavo-priest-will-pay-to-bring-baby-joseph-to-us

ROME, Italy, February 25, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Father Frank Pavone, who became known as the “Terri Schiavo Priest” for his role in trying to save the life of the late Florida woman in 2005, has joined the fight to save a Canadian baby from a cruel early death.

“If I have to fly from Rome to Canada to get Baby Joseph out of the hospital and back home where he belongs, I am ready to do that right now,” said Father Pavone, who has been attending meetings at the Vatican this week.

Father Pavone said Priests for Life will pay all expenses to bring Baby Joseph and his family to a hospital in the United States that would agree to perform the tracheotomy that would make it possible for him to go home.

“The parents of this precious boy are asking only to be allowed to bring Baby Joseph home, where he can die surrounded by those who love him,” said Father Pavone, national director of Priests for Life. “It’s beyond imagination that they would have to ask. This is not an issue that belongs in the court, or in the hands of his doctors. This is their son; he needs to be home with his family.

“This couple lost a child to this same disease eight years ago so they know exactly what they are dealing with, and what to expect as Baby Joseph reaches the end of his life. The small comfort they could take from Zina’s death was to know she died in peace surrounded by those whose lives she had touched in her own short life. They want the same for Baby Joseph.”

Father Pavone was with Terri Schiavo’s parents, brother and sister in her hospital room in the hours before the Florida woman died in 2005, two weeks after a court declared she could be denied food and water to bring on her death. Like the Maraachli family, the Schindlers wanted to bring Terri home.

“This same barbaric act is what the Canadian court is asking Baby Joseph’s family to endure,” Father Pavone said. “It is cruel, it is criminal and it cannot be allowed to happen again.”

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

lifesitenews.com/news/fr-pavone-the-terri-schiavo-priest-will-pay-to-bring-baby-joseph-to-us

ROME, Italy, February 25, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Father Frank Pavone, who became known as the “Terri Schiavo Priest” for his role in trying to save the life of the late Florida woman in 2005, has joined the fight to save a Canadian baby from a cruel early death.

“If I have to fly from Rome to Canada to get Baby Joseph out of the hospital and back home where he belongs, I am ready to do that right now,” said Father Pavone, who has been attending meetings at the Vatican this week.

Father Pavone said Priests for Life will pay all expenses to bring Baby Joseph and his family to a hospital in the United States that would agree to perform the tracheotomy that would make it possible for him to go home.

“The parents of this precious boy are asking only to be allowed to bring Baby Joseph home, where he can die surrounded by those who love him,” said Father Pavone, national director of Priests for Life. “It’s beyond imagination that they would have to ask. This is not an issue that belongs in the court, or in the hands of his doctors. This is their son; he needs to be home with his family.

“This couple lost a child to this same disease eight years ago so they know exactly what they are dealing with, and what to expect as Baby Joseph reaches the end of his life. The small comfort they could take from Zina’s death was to know she died in peace surrounded by those whose lives she had touched in her own short life. They want the same for Baby Joseph.”

Father Pavone was with Terri Schiavo’s parents, brother and sister in her hospital room in the hours before the Florida woman died in 2005, two weeks after a court declared she could be denied food and water to bring on her death. Like the Maraachli family, the Schindlers wanted to bring Terri home.

“This same barbaric act is what the Canadian court is asking Baby Joseph’s family to endure,” Father Pavone said. “It is cruel, it is criminal and it cannot be allowed to happen again.”

Another reason I donate to PFL!

 

[curlycool89]

I don’t see how it can benefit the child when a government panel ordered the hospital to pull the plug.

Since when has a court been a government panel? Courts in Canada exists for the exact same purpose as they do in the States and every other Common Law jurisdiction. Just because you want it to be true doesn’t actually make it true.

There has been no medical reason given for the tracheotomy. Doctors do not perform medical procedures if there’s no medical reason. That is the short and long of it.

All I see are 2 desperate parents who refuse to accept the reality: their child is all but dead. There is nothing more that they can do. This one more procedure won’t make any difference except make them feel better. It’s all about them them them. Because baby Joseph is already all but dead. Sometime, you just have to let go.

 

[lauraabarlow]

My thoughts and prayers are with this boy and his family. Hearing both sides of the story, my conclusion is this: despite this neurological disease and its’ grim prognosis, for the parents’ sake, every measure should be taken to ensure that this young boy’s short time-however short should be allowed at the parents’ home. At least to give the family some extra time to at least to both pray for a miracle and to say their goodbyes-whichever is God’s will. I surely wouldn’t want to die in a hospital. Let them bring Joseph home and go from there-I am really surprised about the Canadian’s stand on this being that I myself grew up near Windsor (Toledo, Ohio). As a mother myself, I cannot fathom what they are going through-first losing their first child and now going through this agonizing situation. I pray that God will somehow comfort the parents and bring them peace beyond our understanding. We must continually keep the family in our thoughts and prayers-that would be the first step to take on this. I pray that they will at least be allowed to bring Joseph home-and for God to take care of the rest-whatever that may be. :grouphug:

 

[Rence]

Given the fact that whether the breathing tube is removed at the hospital, or whether it is removed by giving an unnecessary trach to the baby and removing the respirator, I’m not sure how this became a pro-life, anti-death, death panel, obama issue. This is clearly an issue of patient advocacy. In both senarios, the ventilator will be turned off. The result is the same (he will die).

Choice 1) the ventilator will be turned off at the hospital and he will be monitored by the staff who can properly assess him and treat him for resulting discomforts.

versus

Choice 2) the hospital gives an unnecessary surgical procedure (traching the child), removing the ventilator (why trach without ventilator?) and allowing the parents to take the now unstable child home where he isn’t being monitored by medical stafff that can properly assess and treat any discomfort that arises.

I don’t think most people realize that the parents want the ventilator removed as well. They just want an additional procedure (a tracheostomy) which is useless without the ventilator, and is inappropriate. Even the hospital in Michigan isn’t touching this case with a ten foot pole. I don’t see any Catholic hospitals stepping up (anywhere in the world) to intervene…I think that says a bit about it.

This is not a euthanasia issue. And I fail to see the comparisons with Terri Schiavo. Terri Schiavo was euthanized. Her feeding tube (which is totally different than artificial life support) was removed. This child is on artificial life support, and his ventilator will be removed in either case.

The issue is how the child’s care is being delivered.

cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/02/22/windsor-baby-joseph281.html

The baby’s parents want a tracheotomy performed on their son so they can take him off the respirator and bring him home to live his last days surrounded by family. The London hospital has refused to perform the procedure.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Given the fact that whether the breathing tube is removed at the hospital, or whether it is removed by giving an unnecessary trach to the baby and removing the respirator, I’m not sure how this became a pro-life, anti-death, death panel, obama issue. This is clearly an issue of patient advocacy. In both senarios, the ventilator will be turned off. The result is the same (he will die).

Choice 1) the ventilator will be turned off at the hospital and he will be monitored by the staff who can properly assess him and treat him for resulting discomforts.

versus

Choice 2) the hospital gives an unnecessary surgical procedure (traching the child), removing the ventilator (why trach without ventilator?) and allowing the parents to take the now unstable child home where he isn’t being monitored by medical stafff that can properly assess and treat any discomfort that arises.
I don’t think most people realize that the parents want the ventilator removed as well. They just want an additional procedure (a tracheostomy) which is useless without the ventilator, and is inappropriate. Even the hospital in Michigan isn’t touching this case with a ten foot pole. I don’t see any Catholic hospitals stepping up (anywhere in the world) to intervene…I think that says a bit about it.

This is not a euthanasia issue. And I fail to see the comparisons with Terri Schiavo. Terri Schiavo was euthanized. Her feeding tube (which is totally different than artificial life support) was removed. This child is on artificial life support, and his ventilator will be removed in either case.

The issue is how the child’s care is being delivered.

cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/02/22/windsor-baby-joseph281.html

I didn’t see the part where Joseph would not be ventilated at home? Isn’t that why the parents want the surgery, so he can be ventilated and die at home?.

 

[Rence]

I didn’t see the part where Joseph would not be ventilated at home? Isn’t that why the parents want the surgery, so he can be ventilated and die at home?.

I think they just want him to die at home…but the hospital will not do a trach in those circumstances.

The baby’s parents want a tracheotomy performed on their son **so they can take him off the respirator and bring him home ** to live his last days surrounded by family. The London hospital has refused to perform the procedure.

cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/02/22/windsor-baby-joseph281.html

 

[donsnow]

I haven’t seen any specific medical facts why the boy should remain in the hospital. What issues will the hospital staff be monitoring as he dies?

It just looks like overbearing officious control issues from the state and hospital, to me.

God loves them and all of you,
Don

 

[Rence]

I haven’t seen any specific medical facts why the boy should remain in the hospital. What issues will the hospital staff be monitoring as he dies?

It just looks like overbearing officious control issues from the state and hospital, to me.

God loves them and all of you,
Don

Ok, so then why won’t any Catholic hospitals step up to the plate? Surely there is a Catholic hospital out there somewhere who is compelled to “do the right thing”. The fact that a hospital offered to help, and then refused to touch it with a ten foot pole when they got the patient’s chart should tell readers that something is wrong and that maybe the parents’ demands are unreasonable.

Keep in mind that the hospital is limited on what it can say due to privacy laws. We’re only seeing one side. And while I am hardly an expert, I don’t know of any doctor who would take a person (regardless of age) without any brain stem function (kid can’t breathe on his own, is on life support, and there is evidence of no brain stem function) and trach that kid and just send him home. That’s just crazy.

 

[donsnow]

Ok, so then why won’t any Catholic hospitals step up to the plate? Surely there is a Catholic hospital out there somewhere who is compelled to “do the right thing”. The fact that a hospital offered to help, and then refused to touch it with a ten foot pole when they got the patient’s chart should tell readers that something is wrong and that maybe the parents’ demands are unreasonable.

Keep in mind that the hospital is limited on what it can say due to privacy laws. We’re only seeing one side. And while I am hardly an expert, I don’t know of any doctor who would take a person (regardless of age) without any brain stem function (kid can’t breathe on his own, is on life support, and there is evidence of no brain stem function) and trach that kid and just send him home. That’s just crazy.

Hi, Rence,

I don’t know why a Catholic hospital won’t step to the plate.

I don’t know why the Detroit hospital refused to take the boy.

I’m not going to make assumptions as to why.

I’m saying I’m doubting the Canadian laws and medical practice credibility.

I saying I’ve seen too much abridgment of parental authority and too much destruction of family values by past and current progressive advances at all levels of society in America, to sympathize with the doctors and nurses in charge of that boy.

I’m saying, I don’t want that type of hospital care in America.
I think that that boy is blessed with the parents he has.

So, what you see as a tiff between parents and hospital staff, I view as symptomatic of a growing malaise against the family that’s worldwide.
That’s where I’m at.

God loves you,
Don

 

[momor]

Hi, Rence,

I don’t know why a Catholic hospital won’t step to the plate.

I don’t know why the Detroit hospital refused to take the boy.

I’m not going to make assumptions as to why.

I’m saying I’m doubting the Canadian laws and medical practice credibility.

I saying I’ve seen too much abridgment of parental authority and too much destruction of family values by past and current progressive advances at all levels of society in America, to sympathize with the doctors and nurses in charge of that boy.

I’m saying, I don’t want that type of hospital care in America.
I think that that boy is blessed with the parents he has.

So, what you see as a tiff between parents and hospital staff, I view as symptomatic of a growing malaise against the family that’s worldwide.
That’s where I’m at.

God loves you,
Don

We already have the kind of hospital care you are seeing in this case right here in America and have had for many years. It happens in Catholic hospitals everyday. What doesn’t happen every day are parents who think they know better than the doctors. Or perhaps they have a sick desire to be at the center of a media storm and are willing to sacrifice their child to get attention. I have to wonder what makes them think they are medical experts.

Don’t forget, they are NOT fighting to keep their child on life support. They are fighting to have a surgery that is unneccesary and harmful and will not accomplish what they think it will. They would most likely not even get the child home before he suffocated or strangled to death. He will die a horrible slow death at their hands.

If you think that the parents wishes should be granted because Joseph is dying anyway and they just want him at home so let them have him at home - then you would deny him his personhood, a person deserving of the best nursing and medical care he can get to ease his passage from this world to heaven.