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J
jdnation
Guest
Good show! :clapping:
C
Cradle
Guest
And we’ll be back at the polls in 18 months… sigh
G
Gerry_Hunter
Guest
Yes, that could happen, but maybe a bit longer. With Paul Martin stepping down as party leader, the Liberal Party won’t be in a big hurry to face the electorate. True, Pierre Trudeau lost to a minority Conservative government, and it fell after he’d announced he would step down, but Trudeau agreed to withdraw his resignation, and won a majority. But Trudeau was nicknamed “The Northern Magus,” and Paul is simply in no position to pull those kinds of rabbits out of hats.
Ancient Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.”
Blessings,
Gerry
F
Franze
Guest
It´s a pity, a minority is an inestable goverment.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Maybe Ani or someone else could explain some of the nuances of Canadian politics to me.
If Conservatives were already the minority party, then how could Conservatives be elected to be the minority party?
Clearly there are terms at work that I have no understanding of.
[dangling participle… sorry… “…at work, of which I have no understanding.”]
So, anyway, what exactly happened?
If Conservatives were already the minority party, then how could Conservatives be elected to be the minority party?
Clearly there are terms at work that I have no understanding of.
[dangling participle… sorry… “…at work, of which I have no understanding.”]
So, anyway, what exactly happened?
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
Al Masetti:
PF
I think it means that they now have the most seats, but do not have over 50% of the seats to make them the majority.
PF
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
Here is the count from an MSNBC: article
PF
J
JamesG
Guest
I think Harper will become a very popular prime minister.
When I saw that he had two young childern I realized that this is a victory for the family. The media will focus on his family, and he will be far more interesting then all the other prime ministers in recent years. Pierre Trudeau became popular for this very reason (he took his childern to the north pole to see santa).
As for what happened, the seats around toronto got scared. Far too many of the people around toronto support abortion. We can only pray that this does not continue.
The conservatives know that it will be a two step process in canada before they become the majority party. The next government will be a conservative one as well. If another election is forced, most will elect them again for the remaining 1% GST reduction. Clearly this is all part of a long term conservative plan.
When I saw that he had two young childern I realized that this is a victory for the family. The media will focus on his family, and he will be far more interesting then all the other prime ministers in recent years. Pierre Trudeau became popular for this very reason (he took his childern to the north pole to see santa).
As for what happened, the seats around toronto got scared. Far too many of the people around toronto support abortion. We can only pray that this does not continue.
The conservatives know that it will be a two step process in canada before they become the majority party. The next government will be a conservative one as well. If another election is forced, most will elect them again for the remaining 1% GST reduction. Clearly this is all part of a long term conservative plan.
J
JamesG
Guest
Al Masetti:
there are 4 major parties. not just two like in the US .
M
Marilena
Guest
Al Masetti:
In Canada, a party needs 155 seats for it to be a majority government. The Conservatives got in with 124 seats, that makes them a minority government. This also means that they will likely
have to get support from the bloq, or the NDP. If they do not have sufficient support from one of the opposition parties, the chances for us having another election is good, likely within 10 months. With 155 seats, the conservatives would not be in a minority standing. The election would then have been held in 4 years. But, that did not happen. Canadians still strongly support the liberal party, the ones who had been in power for 12 years. The liberals hold 103 seats, the bloq 51, the NDP 29. 1 independent. They are a very thin minority government, and they need to make good choices in the next year, or we will have another election. This might be all foreign to you, but not to us canadians
The Conservatives were the opposition party before the election.
In Canada, a party needs 155 seats for it to be a majority government. The Conservatives got in with 124 seats, that makes them a minority government. This also means that they will likely
have to get support from the bloq, or the NDP. If they do not have sufficient support from one of the opposition parties, the chances for us having another election is good, likely within 10 months. With 155 seats, the conservatives would not be in a minority standing. The election would then have been held in 4 years. But, that did not happen. Canadians still strongly support the liberal party, the ones who had been in power for 12 years. The liberals hold 103 seats, the bloq 51, the NDP 29. 1 independent. They are a very thin minority government, and they need to make good choices in the next year, or we will have another election. This might be all foreign to you, but not to us canadians
M
Marilena
Guest
don’t underestimate the Conservative Party of Canada. Since your not Canadian, and likely do not understand our political system,
do know that some minority governments can work really well, especially with the support of one of the opposition parties. The opposition if it is the BQ, likely will hold off a potential election for at least a year ot 2. It depends. If the Consevatives do as they say they will, and live up to their agenda, and have the support of one of the oppostion parties, they will stave off an election for possibly even 2 years.
M
Marilena
Guest
Actually, there are more parties. The Marxist lennists, the marijuana party, ext.there are 4 major parties. not just two like in the US .
L
Lapsed
Guest
There are actually only three major parties with a shot at forming government at this time. The Bloc, though holding more seats than the NDP, cannot be considered a major party because they run candidates in only one province and could never form government as there are not enough seats in Quebec.there are 4 major parties. not just two like in the US .
The fringe parties, like the Greens, Christian Heritage, Marijauna, etc. are just that - fringe parties that have never had a single candidate elected.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Al Masetti:
Al Masetti:
However, the number of seats it has won may be less that the combined number of seats of the other parties put together.
If the governing party puts forward a bill and the other parties combined vote against it, then the bill is defeated. That is called a vote of non-confidence which means the governing party loses the right to govern and must call an election within a fixed period of time.
A minority government does not mean that the governing party won fewer votes than another party.
Franze is right. Minority governments are not as stable as majority governments. However there are more checks and balances on them. The governing party must put forward bills which the other parties or even just one other party can support while still saving face.
It makes sense that Canadians have done this. The Liberals have wronged us. The Conservatives wronged us gravely in the Mulroney era (federal) and in the Harris era (Ontario). After Mulroney we knocked back a majority government to 2 seats! As for the NDP: many Canadians are not that socialist.
If Green could get fair coverage by the CBC, then the Green might start winning seats. The Green has launched a lawsuit about this. In any case, Canadians are saying that nobody gets a majority until they smarten up and demonstrate that they are serving Canada and not themselves. Canadians are also saying that there is no party out there which credibly gives an alternative to the Liberals.
In this present case, it will be the Bloq that keeps the Conservatives in power. Why? Not because the Conservatives agree with separatism. They don’t. But the Bloq is not a one trick pony.
The Bloq is a decentrist party. So are the Conservatives. The Conservatives will give Quebec much more stature and autonomy internationally. This new step will prove to be very very interesting.
The Bloq has been a big proponent of balancing the inequities between federal money and provincial money. That balance has been on the Conservative’s platform.
Quebec needs the immigration policy to be rationalized. That rationalization has been on the Conservative platform.
The biggest thing, though, has been mending the insult to Quebec which the Liberals delivered by means of the Sponsorship program. The Liberals contracted out huge amounts of money to companies in order to promote Canadian unity in Quebec. That money was squandered and much of it made its way into the pockets of Liberals or was just plain lost. This humiliated Quebec.
The first thing Harper will do is to bring in the Federal Accountability Act which will not only fix the Sponsorship Scandal but will prevent such things from ever happening again.
Changing the Senate to an elected Senate will also help Quebec.
So you see there are many things which the Conservatives will do which the Bloq wants without even opening the discussion of separation.
As for dangling prepositions: Canadian usage permits them (Messenger and DeBruyn) in informal speech. Using prepositions in the traditional way renders formal writing clearer.
I’ll try.
Al Masetti:
A party which forms a minority government has won more seats that any one of the other parties. Therefore it gets to govern.
However, the number of seats it has won may be less that the combined number of seats of the other parties put together.
If the governing party puts forward a bill and the other parties combined vote against it, then the bill is defeated. That is called a vote of non-confidence which means the governing party loses the right to govern and must call an election within a fixed period of time.
A minority government does not mean that the governing party won fewer votes than another party.
Franze is right. Minority governments are not as stable as majority governments. However there are more checks and balances on them. The governing party must put forward bills which the other parties or even just one other party can support while still saving face.
It makes sense that Canadians have done this. The Liberals have wronged us. The Conservatives wronged us gravely in the Mulroney era (federal) and in the Harris era (Ontario). After Mulroney we knocked back a majority government to 2 seats! As for the NDP: many Canadians are not that socialist.
If Green could get fair coverage by the CBC, then the Green might start winning seats. The Green has launched a lawsuit about this. In any case, Canadians are saying that nobody gets a majority until they smarten up and demonstrate that they are serving Canada and not themselves. Canadians are also saying that there is no party out there which credibly gives an alternative to the Liberals.
In this present case, it will be the Bloq that keeps the Conservatives in power. Why? Not because the Conservatives agree with separatism. They don’t. But the Bloq is not a one trick pony.
The Bloq is a decentrist party. So are the Conservatives. The Conservatives will give Quebec much more stature and autonomy internationally. This new step will prove to be very very interesting.
The Bloq has been a big proponent of balancing the inequities between federal money and provincial money. That balance has been on the Conservative’s platform.
Quebec needs the immigration policy to be rationalized. That rationalization has been on the Conservative platform.
The biggest thing, though, has been mending the insult to Quebec which the Liberals delivered by means of the Sponsorship program. The Liberals contracted out huge amounts of money to companies in order to promote Canadian unity in Quebec. That money was squandered and much of it made its way into the pockets of Liberals or was just plain lost. This humiliated Quebec.
The first thing Harper will do is to bring in the Federal Accountability Act which will not only fix the Sponsorship Scandal but will prevent such things from ever happening again.
Changing the Senate to an elected Senate will also help Quebec.
So you see there are many things which the Conservatives will do which the Bloq wants without even opening the discussion of separation.
As for dangling prepositions: Canadian usage permits them (Messenger and DeBruyn) in informal speech. Using prepositions in the traditional way renders formal writing clearer.
J
JamesG
Guest
Ani Ibi:
As for Harris, he did very well for Ontario. He did everything he said he would. He even scraped all the affirmative action nonsense that the NDP had in place.
Mulroney introduced the GST and Canadians hated him for it. Regardless the country needed it. The liberals promised to scrap it but never did because they also realized that it was needed. The GST is the very reason the liberals have a surplus.
As for Harris, he did very well for Ontario. He did everything he said he would. He even scraped all the affirmative action nonsense that the NDP had in place.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Yes, I agree. Mulroney had a plan which included Nafta. The trouble is that, like Harris, he didn’t really let us ordinary Canadians in on it. He only announced things already accomplished. Therefore everything came as a shock; there was no adjustment time; no integrated understanding. It was another example of treating us ordinary Canadians like idiots.
Harris had a utopian vision. He was wrong about the poor. He was right in principle but socialist in method. He hit the nail on the head when he claimed that the poor needed the dignity of work. He missed the mark by adopting socialist means. Arm’s length job-search workfare companies were contracted at huge public expense for no other purpose than to con the poor into thinking there were jobs.
At the Federal level HRDC advertised jobs but they were non-existent, for no wages, or just plain silly. One job for instance required a couple of degrees in computing but didn’t pay anything. Then both levels of government rigged the employment stats. There were more jobs: jobs with no pay; volunteer jobs, part-time jobs, temporary jobs but not jobs which allowed the poor the “dignity of working.” What dignity is there in economic slavery?
Also Harris’s finance minister Ernie Eaves made off with what was it? $3B or $5B? Money shouldn’t just go missing like that.
And Harris was responsible for Ipperwash. Don’t underestimate Ipperwash. Ipperwash was the nail in the coffin of the poor. It demoralized us, humiliated us, and made us strangers in our own land.
What about Waterton? The diseased water? First of a long list of diseased water sites. Big cover up since then which has resulted in our having to transport whole communities of First Nations at tremendous public expense and house them and feed them until their water supplies were healed.
No. I am not for all Conservatives for the sake of being for Conservatives. The Conservatives in Canada have a lot of splaining to do. At least as much as the Liberals. People remember and that is why we have a thin minority government. Do I think Harper is smarter than Mulroney and Harris? Yes. Another bonus is that Duceppe is on the scene. Duceppe is smarter than all of them combined.
The healing of the Conservative party will take time and courage.
C
Christus_Rex
Guest
Hallelujah!!!
J
JamesG
Guest
Ani Ibi:
Honestly, I think Harper is very intelligent. He may not show it, but his campaign is very calculating and he has executed it quite well. He uses his low key personality to his advantage.
Do you think that Mulroney or Harris could of pulled two parties together and then get elected a very short time later?.
I think Harpers first task should be to hang low and restructure the courts. He is against the activist judges and knows all to well of how they turned into snakes and entered the courts.
Now I don’t agree with how most governments help the poor, but I still think that a conservative government will be great for toronto. It will help limit funding to special interest groups. For example, I’ve heard talk that the conservatives might fund the ttc directly. That would prevent the city (toronto) from keeping the money and using it for other hidden reasons (ie gay activists groups)
For now, all I can do is just vote conservative and then help the poor myself.
As a catholic you should vote for the party that might actually do something to stop the culture of death. With that in mind Harper is the only one with a family and he is a family man. It will be nice to see childern and a loving wife around our PM. This is the kind of message that must be sent to all canadians.
Honestly, I think Harper is very intelligent. He may not show it, but his campaign is very calculating and he has executed it quite well. He uses his low key personality to his advantage.
Do you think that Mulroney or Harris could of pulled two parties together and then get elected a very short time later?.
I think Harpers first task should be to hang low and restructure the courts. He is against the activist judges and knows all to well of how they turned into snakes and entered the courts.
Now I don’t agree with how most governments help the poor, but I still think that a conservative government will be great for toronto. It will help limit funding to special interest groups. For example, I’ve heard talk that the conservatives might fund the ttc directly. That would prevent the city (toronto) from keeping the money and using it for other hidden reasons (ie gay activists groups)
For now, all I can do is just vote conservative and then help the poor myself.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
I agree. Except for the Christian Heritage which is a fringe party that does not run candidates in all ridings, there is no such party. Not even the Conservatives.
Yes, he reminds me of Kennedy’s Camelot before we lost our innocence. Look at his hairline. He has JFK’s hairline.
I agree. He seems humble enough to learn from experience. He seems substantial enough to make hard, realistic, pragmatic decisions.
Bush doesn’t show it either. But what is the use of show? Delivery of the goods is what counts. And Bush delivers.
Yes, this is about discipline. And about leadership.
His personality is low key. He doesnt try to be something he is not. In this he reminds me of Bobby Kennedy. RFK would sit motionless and silent until a question was asked in its entirety and then sit for some second more thinking. Only when he had something to say did he speak.
They both had their accomplishments.
His promise was to introduce the Federal Accountability Act before anything else. Duceppe wants the fiscal imbalance to be addressed immediately and without Duceppe, Harper can do nothing.
Duceppe calls on Harper to make good on promises
Duceppe has wasted no time. Wanna know who is running Canada today? Look no further than Duceppe. He is one in a million.
I haven’t heard this, but one must remember that Miller is – actually I believe the Bay Street NDP boys got him into power. I believe Miller helped the Liberal campaign in Toronto. Miller is a Harvard man, a friend of Joseph Kennedy.
It will be a relief to see people get off the street.
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