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theCardinalbird
Guest
Can a Pope be removed from office? Does Canon law say anything about a heretical Pope?
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Brendan
Guest
Nope, Canon Law is at the service of the Pope, he is not subject to it.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I do hope we’re not looking to impeach the Pope now.
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Usige
Guest
I am approaching this question from a purely conceptual standpoint. The discussion does not in of itself speak to any specific Pope now or in the future so please do not treat this as being disrespectful to the Papal Office.
Strictly speaking a Pope cannot be removed by a juridical act. In other words, he cannot be tried be an ecclesiastic tribunal.
That being said, it has been long held that a Pope that teaches heresy automatically looses (or perhaps abdicates is a better word) the papal office. As the New Commentary on Canon Law states, “To fall from the faith of Peter is to fall from his chair”.
Now that does leave an interesting conundrum. From the stand point of law, one must be adjudicated to be formally held as a heretic. Since the Pope cannot be tried in an ecclesiastic court I don’t know that he could ever be formally declared as having fallen into heresy. So it is possible that a Pope could teach say Arianism, but could not be formally tried. Unfortunately Canon Law itself does not have a “legal” remedy if that were to ever happen.
We can trust that the Holy Spirit would protect the Church in a case like that so the answer then would not be found in canon law so much as theology or ecclesiology.
Dr Edward Peter’s wrote an interesting article on this subject last December:
Strictly speaking a Pope cannot be removed by a juridical act. In other words, he cannot be tried be an ecclesiastic tribunal.
That being said, it has been long held that a Pope that teaches heresy automatically looses (or perhaps abdicates is a better word) the papal office. As the New Commentary on Canon Law states, “To fall from the faith of Peter is to fall from his chair”.
Now that does leave an interesting conundrum. From the stand point of law, one must be adjudicated to be formally held as a heretic. Since the Pope cannot be tried in an ecclesiastic court I don’t know that he could ever be formally declared as having fallen into heresy. So it is possible that a Pope could teach say Arianism, but could not be formally tried. Unfortunately Canon Law itself does not have a “legal” remedy if that were to ever happen.
We can trust that the Holy Spirit would protect the Church in a case like that so the answer then would not be found in canon law so much as theology or ecclesiology.
Dr Edward Peter’s wrote an interesting article on this subject last December:
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theCardinalbird
Guest
No of course not, I was just curious if there was any law that was put in place for this
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Blue_Horizon
Guest
God save us if Bellarmine is consideted the last word, or even mainstream, on this matter. He also erroneously believed in geocentrism.
The simple fact is there is no solid “traditional” teaching on this matter as its never had to be faced in any serious way.
The simple fact is there is no solid “traditional” teaching on this matter as its never had to be faced in any serious way.
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Crusaderbear
Guest
A very slippery slope question indeed!
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Usige
Guest
Regardless if St Robert Bellarmine believed in geocentrism, he was still declared a Doctor of the Church so I wouldn’t dismiss his thoughts about heresy as unimportant. That does not mean he has the last word, but rather that the Church trusts that his thoughts were important enough in adding to the body of faith that we was declared Doctor for his contributions.
I would certainly agree that it is in the realm of speculation since we have not had to face it. I hope we all pray that the Church not ever have to face that prospect either.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
Doesn’t the “gates of hell shall not prevail” thing prevent a heretical Pope problem? I think that sounds a bit more reliable than many of the opinions flung about.
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acanonlawyer
Guest
Hello,
No, not by any man…at least not lawfully. Canon law doesn’t say anything specifically/directly about a heretical Pope. It addresses, in general, what heresy is and what its effects are.
Dan
(formerly dans0622)
No, not by any man…at least not lawfully. Canon law doesn’t say anything specifically/directly about a heretical Pope. It addresses, in general, what heresy is and what its effects are.
Dan
(formerly dans0622)
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commenter
Guest
In terms of whether a pope can be removed from his office…It is possible a given pope has filed written instructions with someone (maybe the Secretary of State?) stating something like this:
"In the event of my physical or mental incapacity to serve as pope, as certified by 2 physicians I have designated in advance, their certification will constitute an effective resignation by me, upon public release of the papers by the Secretary of State. I bind my future self now, to this possible status in the future. "
This does not directly address the question of heresy, but heresy might be overlapping in a situation of mental incapacity. Of course, it would be the mental incapacity, not the heresy, that would trigger this action, but the two might be simultaneous.
"In the event of my physical or mental incapacity to serve as pope, as certified by 2 physicians I have designated in advance, their certification will constitute an effective resignation by me, upon public release of the papers by the Secretary of State. I bind my future self now, to this possible status in the future. "
This does not directly address the question of heresy, but heresy might be overlapping in a situation of mental incapacity. Of course, it would be the mental incapacity, not the heresy, that would trigger this action, but the two might be simultaneous.
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Usige
Guest
I was hoping you’d find your way here, @acanonlawyer (formerly known as @dans0622
).While I’m not advocating it, is there anything preventing a Pope from abolishing Canon 1404 and then including the First See under 1405§3?
I guess I’m just wondering if 1404 is purely a matter of ecclesiastic law or does Papal Primacy underpin it to the point that one could not support the theology and allowing the Pope to be judged by the Rota at the same time.
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Blue_Horizon
Guest
I have no idea what this means. Persons are canonised not teachings.
Clearly his thoughts on deposing of a Pope are no more “added to the body of faith” than his erroneous teaching of geocentrism.
I don’t feel any need to pray re such a thing … why do you?
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Rau
Guest
Who’d have though we’d need to pray for the safety of children in the care of Church institutions, clergy and religious? Who’d have ever thought we’d have to pray for the Bishops to place safety of children above other concerns? Pope’s routinely ask for prayers - not just for good health I think, but also to faithfully carry out their duties which includes not making errors in teaching (well meaning no doubt). Sounds a reasonable thing.
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10gr8kids
Guest
God allows us to play a part in His plan. TBH this is something I don’t fully understand, but our prayers really are efficacious. Even though God has promised that the gates of hell will not prevail over the Church, I am still compelled to pray that Christ’s church is protected from the evil one.
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Blue_Horizon
Guest
Wondered if you’d come back 
.
Gave you your first like so you can upgrade your trust level from Basic to Member.
I don’t know what you are on about above though.
I have never felt the need to pray that any Pope in my lifetime (that’s seven now) needed prayers so as not to be removed by disaffected Catholics and 4-2=2 Dubious Cardinals.
.Gave you your first like so you can upgrade your trust level from Basic to Member.
I don’t know what you are on about above though.
I have never felt the need to pray that any Pope in my lifetime (that’s seven now) needed prayers so as not to be removed by disaffected Catholics and 4-2=2 Dubious Cardinals.
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Usige
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Blue_Horizon
Guest
He floated a few things as pure speculation with no tradition to back him up.
He is certainly entitled to his speculations but to pretend that he adds any great credibility to your own obviously held view on matters the Church has never seriously tackled is just foolishness.
There is no solid view on this matter other than that there is nobody who has the authority to depose a pope except God Himself.
And as God rarely makes public appearances these days that suggests only his Vicar can do so.
Which doesn’t make a lot of sense given that the Pope is His Vicar
He is certainly entitled to his speculations but to pretend that he adds any great credibility to your own obviously held view on matters the Church has never seriously tackled is just foolishness.
There is no solid view on this matter other than that there is nobody who has the authority to depose a pope except God Himself.
And as God rarely makes public appearances these days that suggests only his Vicar can do so.
Which doesn’t make a lot of sense given that the Pope is His Vicar
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Rau
Guest
Gee Thanks
Wisely, all Popes ask for prayers - fundamentally that they will serve well as Pope. Fair enough don’t you think?
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