Canon Law Requiring Assent to Falsehood?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ThePuppyTurtle
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

ThePuppyTurtle

Guest
Can. 752 While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ’s faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.

So… if we discover some disproof of a non-infallible Church teaching, are we obligated to believe something we know factually to be false on pain of sin?

Please cite actual Church teaching in your answer.
 
Just curious, what Church doctrines on faith or morals do you suspect is incorrect? I suspect that that which you doubt is not an actual doctrine.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
Just curious, what Church doctrines on faith or morals do you suspect is incorrect? I suspect that that which you doubt is not an actual doctrine.
Click to expand...
That it is sinful for a person to disbelieve what he know by reason to be false hen he does not have the Church’s infallible assurance that it is true.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
Can. 752 While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ’s faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.

So… if we discover some disproof of a non-infallible Church teaching, are we obligated to believe something we know factually to be false on pain of sin?

Please cite actual Church teaching in your answer.
Click to expand...
The “IF” renders your entire theory hypothetical.

Who might have incited you to suspect that falsehood will be discovered?
 
Christ promised to remain with His Church until the end of the ages and has given Her the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. Therefore, there are no false teachings within the Church and won’t be. 👍
 
po18guy said:
The “IF” renders your entire theory hypothetical.

Who might have incited you to suspect that falsehood will be discovered?
Click to expand...
The Church, when she admitted that the teachins in question are fallible.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
The Church, when she admitted that the teachins in question are fallible.
Click to expand...
Re-reading your OP, it seems rather confused. Just what is it that you are trying to say?

Remember also that you are attempting to condemn something only if your desired IF is found.

2,000 years have passed.

No “IF”
 
po18guy said:
Re-reading your OP, it seems rather confused. Just what is it that you are trying to say?

Remember also that you are attempting to condemn something only if your desired IF is found.

2,000 years have passed.

No “IF”
Click to expand...
I am talking about non-infallible teaching which nonetheless demand “Religious Submission of Intellect and Will,” which, as some sources have said and others have denied, incl7des assent.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
That it is sinful for a person to disbelieve what he know by reason to be false hen he does not have the Church’s infallible assurance that it is true.
Click to expand...
I almost had to draw a wall chart to analyze this sentence.

Are you claiming that the Church must declare all truth, known and unknown, or only that which God has revealed?

It would also be very nice if you would link to the source for the canon law.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
I am talking about non-infallible teaching which nonetheless demand “Religious Submission of Intellect and Will,” which, as some sources have said and others have denied, incl7des assent.
Click to expand...
Must everything be dogma before you will disbelieve it? All teaching which stems from the “ordinary Magisterium” of the Church may be considered by the faithful to be infallible. It’s just that simple.

It is you, I must point out, who has alleged that assent must be given to falsehood. Please prove that falsehood exists and then we can talk. Not disagreement. Not confusion. Not misunderstanding.

Falsehood.
 
po18guy said:
Must everything be dogma before you will disbelieve it? All teaching which stems from the “ordinary Magisterium” of the Church may be considered by the faithful to be infallible. It’s just that simple.

What is your purpose in complicating it?
Click to expand...
Then why does canon law say that certain non-infallible teachings require "religious submission of intellect and will?
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
Then why does canon law say that certain non-infallible teachings require "religious submission of intellect and will?
Click to expand...
“Christ died for our sins” is not a dogmatic teaching. Should we grant intellectual assent to that teaching? I think that you misunderstand discipline, doctrine and dogma.
 
po18guy said:
“Christ died for our sins” is not a dogmatic teaching. Should we grant intellectual assent to that teaching? I think that you misunderstand discipline, doctrine and dogma.
Click to expand...
The attonement IS a dogma. Now, please address my question. Is a person required to assentto known falsehoods, and provide a document to back up your answer.
 
po18guy said:
“Christ died for our sins” is not a dogmatic teaching. Should we grant intellectual assent to that teaching? I think that you misunderstand discipline, doctrine and dogma.
Click to expand...
Yes it is a dogmatic teaching.
 
Your argument is undermined by the preceding paragraphs:
Can. 748 §1 All are bound to seek the truth in the matters which concern God and his Church; **when they have found it, then by divine law they are bound, and they have the right, to embrace and keep it. **

§2It is never lawful for anyone to force others to embrace the catholic faith against their conscience.
Click to expand...
No one is compelled to be a Catholic.

If you believe the Catholic Church was established by Jesus it is absurd not to respect its teaching.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
The attonement IS a dogma. Now, please address my question. Is a person required to assentto known falsehoods, and provide a document to back up your answer.
Click to expand...
Your question is merely hypothetical. You bear the burden of demonstrating falsehood before it makes sense to discuss this.
 
po18guy said:
It was an ex cathedra pronouncement? I believe that its infallibility comes as a result of it stemming from the ordinary magisterium of he Church, not from a papal pronouncement.
Click to expand...
Never mind! I had conflated dogma with ex cathedra pronouncements, of which there have only been two. My bad. :o
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top