Canonical Penalties For Border Patrol Agents

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So if clergy is willing to deny Eucharist to those engaging in formal but not material cooperation with evil - e.g. Pelosi and Biden - it would only make sense to deny it to border patrol agents, even if they pull the Eichmann Defense.
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No. What do you propose the Border Patrol agents do with the children accompanying adults whom they arrest? I am not trying to be flippant, but we don’t have babysitting stations set up at the borders. The separations are as temporary as possible. They are not cooperating with evil.

Also, why has this issue never been brought up in the context of non-border police arresting and incarcerating people who have children? In those cases, the separation is, sadly, usually much longer than those faced by illegal immigrants. I have never seen the bishops propose canonical penalties for police who are carrying out their duties (not speaking of abuse of duties, of course).
When a migrant is prosecuted for illegal entry, he or she is taken into custody by the U.S. Marshals. In no circumstance anywhere in the U.S. do the marshals care for the children of people they take into custody. The child is taken into the custody of HHS, who cares for them at temporary shelters.
The criminal proceedings are exceptionally short, assuming there is no aggravating factor such as a prior illegal entity or another crime. The migrants generally plead guilty, and they are then sentenced to time served, typically all in the same day, although practices vary along the border. After this, they are returned to the custody of ICE.
If the adult then wants to go home, in keeping with the expedited order of removal that is issued as a matter of course, it’s relatively simple. The adult should be reunited quickly with his or her child, and the family returned home as a unit. In this scenario, there’s only a very brief separation.
(from the link in Post 9 above)
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I disagree with this ultra liberal take on hurting people’s livelihoods.We will see more Catholics going to conservative services. I would be one of those, even if it was further away. I do not like what is going on,who knows what will happen if people are pushed. God help the Catholic church!
 
PureKathleen46 said:
We will see more Catholics going to conservative services. I would be one of those, even if it was further away.
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No, I don’t think we will see that. I disagree strongly with this bishop’s proposed approach, as you can see by my above posts, but I would never consider leaving the Church founded by Christ. That is not even an option, and hopefully most Catholics feel the same.
 
We are coming to a point in our society where there will be more and more jobs that a Catholic simply cannot hold.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Thing is, it is not a zero-sum game.

You, I, a Bishop, can oppose both abortion AND breaking up families. We can oppose both rape AND murder.
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Absolutely, and we should 100% oppose all of those things.
Although when you say something like “breaking up families” (for example), people will clump enforcing immigration policies to by default mean this. Just as sending a criminal to prison will likely mean breaking apart a family, this doesn’t mean we should now remove the prison system or all laws.

Also, some things are magisterial dogmatic matters like abortion and suicide while some aren’t, like immigration policy or foreign intervention.

I’m not saying prudential matters like immigration or foreign involvement should be ignored – they shouldn’t and they are very, very important. However, they are not more important than magisterial matters because those must be in line 100% with Church teaching, despite the fact that they are so commonly violated, even by many Catholics.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
We are coming to a point in our society where there will be more and more jobs that a Catholic simply cannot hold
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I think the fundamental point of disagreement in this thread is whether Border Patrol agents are doing something bad or evil in the course of carrying out their duties. If I understand you correctly, you are implying that it is morally wrong to be a Border Patrol agent, at least at this point in time.

I have to disagree that they are doing something “evil.” When a person is arrested, it may be a necessity to temporarily separate them from their children. Care should be taken to make such a separation as short as possible. In the case of most illegal immigrants, that is what they are doing. In other cases, the process taking longer than it should; and that is where Congress should step in to reform the laws.

Unless I missed it, no one has answered my question as to why the bishop is not jumping on regular police who separate families by arresting and incarcerating the parents. (I am not proposing we do that. But I would like to know why it is only the border police that he is going after.)
 
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The solution, as clearly laid out by USCCB, is to provide a just path to citizenship for these people.

If you care Catholic, you are called to advocate likewise.
 
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blackforest said:
Are you considering leaving the Church if you disagree with this teaching?
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Penalties for border patrol agents isn’t a teaching, and doing your job as an agent for that is far different than performing an abortion.

I guess the military would be next, then. That’s why this suggestion is preposterous.
 
I’m saying that determination of the level of sin is in the hands of those above my pay grade. What I am hearing and reading is that this is not in the “whatsoever is good” basket, that is for sure!

There are certain jobs that require sin. For instance, it would be evil for me to be a madam at a brothel.

At least one Bishop is asking his brother Bishops to determine if acting in this way toward migrant children is a grave sin. The Bishops will speak on this, I will obey them.
 
If the border patrol is as shorthanded as I’ve heard they are, I doubt that’s an option.
 
I don’t think anyone is opposed to a pathway to citizenship. The US has one of the most open immigration policies in the world, and I side with it. However, immigrants must abide by the law of the land as well. This is pointed out in the Catechism in paragrph 2241.

This is a part that is being ignored. I say we welcome them, but just as we hold citizens accountable, they must be held accountable as well, and violation should mean justice. It’s a privilege. That’s what I believe, and it’s not in opposition to official Church teaching.
 
Having worked at Duke in the not-so-distant past and having attended school there (and still having friends who are employed by the health system), she should either change departments or seek employment elsewhere. It’s made perfectly clear when you apply and are interviewed what your job in that position will entail. You either bring it up in the interview or you decline the offer.

She knew what would be involved. Duke doesn’t hide stuff; they’re pretty explicit in your package.
blackforest said:
And some of the most learned members of hierarchy in the Catholic Church disagree with you.
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They’re entitled to that, as I’m entitled to my opinion. Once they’ve done the job, I’ll view it a bit differently. I did TDY assignments with border patrol when I was a dog handler back in the 1990s. Doesn’t make me an expert by far, but I’ve actually talked to agents about what they do and how they do it. This isn’t a new “thing”, despite what the media would like all to believe.
 
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