Can't bear another Hurd / Haas / etc hymn

[TheLeastofThese]

What I am complaining about may be summed up in the lack of objectively beautiful art. Like church architecture, there is objectively beautiful music. One of the reasons why my heart was opened to the Catholic faith were the beautiful cathedrals of Europe. Everyone agrees they are beautiful. How about music that everyone agrees is beautiful for the Mass?

How ironic you should say that…

One of the reasons why my heart was opened to the Catholic faith was the beauty I heard in the OCP composers’ music. You and others may not find the OCP composers’ music “objectively beautiful” but it was absolutely beautiful to me when I came into the Church and it continues to stir my heart whenever I hear it some 20+ years later.

 

[Monica4316]

Is there a Latin Mass where you live? The music at Latin Mass parishes is always beautiful, chant, polyphony or old hymns

 

[OraLabora]

Is there a Latin Mass where you live? The music at Latin Mass parishes is always beautiful, chant, polyphony or old hymns

That term to describe the extraordinary form Mass really irritates me. I have been to many an ordinary form Mass in Latin, in Gregorian chant, and beautiful. Plus as I pointed out the there are EF Masses with poorly done Chant, so they’re not always beautiful, and at the local abbey, the OF Mass has magnificent chant. The abbey is in fact the foremost place in Canada for Gregorian chant. With, as bonus a magnificent pipe organ and two accomplished and award winning organists.

 

[otjm]

That term to describe the extraordinary form Mass really irritates me. I have been to many an ordinary form Mass in Latin, in Gregorian chant, and beautiful. Plus as I pointed out the there are EF Masses with poorly done Chant, so they’re not always beautiful, and at the local abbey, the OF Mass has magnificent chant. The abbey is in fact the foremost place in Canada for Gregorian chant. With, as bonus a magnificent pipe organ and two accomplished and award winning organists.

I can second that. We have a very small parish in our archdiocese which has the EF. The choir tries. But they sing at Gregorian chant, which is a tad bit different than singing it. I do not fault them for their enthusiasm. But skill wise, they collectively need to find a large washtub with a lid on it to carry the the music, as the notes they sing don’t carry it all that well.

I don’t mean to belittle. It is just … not good.

 

[Samuel_Mary]

That term to describe the extraordinary form Mass really irritates me. I have been to many an ordinary form Mass in Latin, in Gregorian chant, and beautiful. Plus as I pointed out the there are EF Masses with poorly done Chant, so they’re not always beautiful, and at the local abbey, the OF Mass has magnificent chant. The abbey is in fact the foremost place in Canada for Gregorian chant. With, as bonus a magnificent pipe organ and two accomplished and award winning organists.

I’ve been many times to a wonderful and reverent Solemn Latin Mass in the ordinary form at a local Oratory (more elaborate Baroque polyphony than Gregorian chant though). I wish there were more like that, but to be honest what percentage of OF Masses said regularly worldwide are in the original Latin? Five per cent? Ten per cent? I’d be shocked if it was more than that. It’s not surprising that many people think of ‘Latin Mass’ as interchangeable with ‘TLM’ or ‘Extraordinary Form’ given these numbers.

 

[EqualinHim]

I agree with the suggestions that you should help out with the music ministry. A friend of mine once said that “for every two cents there should be two hands.”

I feel so bad for poor music ministers because it seems like people can be very uncharitable towards them. It seems like today people love to bash music ministers and priests. Can’t we all just relax and enjoying praying the mass, guys? And say a thank-you for the music directors and musicians who volunteer their time?

I’m starting to get a bit tired of the whole ‘chant vs. modern music’ debate because the debaters aren’t always very charitable.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ve been many times to a wonderful and reverent Solemn Latin Mass in the ordinary form at a local Oratory (more elaborate Baroque polyphony than Gregorian chant though). I wish there were more like that, but to be honest what percentage of OF Masses said regularly worldwide are in the original Latin? Five per cent? Ten per cent? I’d be shocked if it was more than that. It’s not surprising that many people think of ‘Latin Mass’ as interchangeable with ‘TLM’ or ‘Extraordinary Form’ given these numbers.

It’s not a huge percentage but it is not insignificant either. There are 3600 abbeys and priories around the world, and a significant number of them still incorporate Latin in their liturgies.

Where I live, there are two Benedictine abbeys that still use Latin; the one I’m affiliated with uses Latin for the Propers, and Latin/Greek for the ordinary, the rest in French plainchant. The Benedictine women just outside of Montreal say the Mass entirely in Latin except for readings, in the OF. Our schola sings a Gregorian chant Mass every month in the small city of Sherbrooke Quebec. There are also scholas in Montreal, Quebec City, Chicoutimi, Toronto, etc., that sing in Latin at OF Masses. I’ve been to all-Latin and mixed Latin/Italian Masses in Italy, all-Latin OF Masses in France and England, and of course in Canada.

It’s enough for me that the term “Latin Mass” to describe the EF Mass is a misnomer.

 

[Samuel_Mary]

It’s not a huge percentage but it is not insignificant either. There are 3600 abbeys and priories around the world, and a significant number of them still incorporate Latin in their liturgies.

Where I live, there are two Benedictine abbeys that still use Latin; the one I’m affiliated with uses Latin for the Propers, and Latin/Greek for the ordinary, the rest in French plainchant. The Benedictine women just outside of Montreal say the Mass entirely in Latin except for readings, in the OF. Our schola sings a Gregorian chant Mass every month in the small city of Sherbrooke Quebec. There are also scholas in Montreal, Quebec City, Chicoutimi, Toronto, etc., that sing in Latin at OF Masses. I’ve been to all-Latin and mixed Latin/Italian Masses in Italy, all-Latin OF Masses in France and England, and of course in Canada.

It’s enough for me that the term “Latin Mass” to describe the EF Mass is a misnomer.

True, the percentage would definitely be higher if we include those parishes/communities that do the propers and/or parts of the Mass Ordinary in Latin.
What I meant was doing the whole Mass in Latin, using the untranslated Novus Ordo Missae. Because I think that’s the point when we could expect people to refer to an Ordinary Form as a ‘Latin Mass’. I don’t think many people would say they were at a Latin Mass just because the propers, the dialogue, the sanctus and the Agnus Dei were in Latin, like on EWTN’s Masses. Those are still clearly vernacular Masses.

In any case, we agree that ‘Latin Mass’ for Extraordinary Form/Vetus Ordo/Usus antiquior/TLM is a misnomer.