Can't put my finger on it, but it doesn't feel right

[LilyM]

I believe that this is the EWTN LIVE Show that Bwavenit was talking about.

EWTN LIVE 1/10/2007

I know he was talking on tv about the Schoenstatt movement - which has a similar practice to do with an image of Mary and the Christ Child.

I think the proliferation of different images and objects (such as the Elijah cup mentioned above) shows that the focus is not on the particular image, rather it’s on re-energising the prayer life of the family which has it, which most families find continues long after the image or object is gone from their homes.

Rather like I chose on Ash Wednesday last year to begin the practice of daily Mass. It’s not that the day itself was of supreme importance, it simply marked a convenient time to begin the practice, which has continued ever since

 

[Sir_Knight]

You need to define your “not feeling right” before any answer to you is possible.

What is it that bothers you, specifically?

I think that these two posts verbalize it best …

1. *]
   

   I had the same feeling once upon a time when my sister opened her home to a group of people that promoted devotion to Mary with a “traveling statue” approach.
   
   It bothered me that special significance was placed upon the particular statue representing the Blessed Virgin.

   *]
   

   As others have pointed out, the problem is not the presence of the statue, rather it was the presence of a particular statue. The idea that arrival of the statue in the home is somehow special is, I think slipping into dangerous territory,

 

[vern_humphrey]

Regard the statue as a sacramental, like the Rosary itself – an object consecrated to prayer and meditation.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu
You need to define your “not feeling right” before any answer to you is possible.

What is it that bothers you, specifically?

I think that these two posts verbalize it best …
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax
I had the same feeling once upon a time when my sister opened her home to a group of people that promoted devotion to Mary with a “traveling statue” approach.

It bothered me that special significance was placed upon the particular statue representing the Blessed Virgin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchale
As others have pointed out, the problem is not the presence of the statue, rather it was the presence of a particular statue. The idea that arrival of the statue in the home is somehow special is, I think slipping into dangerous territory,

Ah,… the PARTICULAR statue…

Isn’t EVERY statue a PARTICULAR STATUE…?!

You’ve described a distinction without a difference.

If you have a problem with that particular statue, you MUST have a problem with ALL statues.

Is that the case, and if not, why not?

 

[rr1213]

We are saved by Christ’s sacrifice not by the Blessed Virgin Mary. Why can’t this gathering take place around a statue of Jesus if there has to be a statute?

 

[Keikiolu]

We are saved by Christ’s sacrifice not by the Blessed Virgin Mary. Why can’t this gathering take place around a statue of Jesus if there has to be a statute?

If I wanna talk to Jesus’s mom, and have her put in a good word for me, you gonna object to that?

Why?

Because it’s a “waste of time”?

Why?

Do you pray for your loved ones?

Why?

Is it a waste of time?

Why not?

So,… 'ya gonna answer me, punk,… Are 'ya…?!

(( Catholic Dennis the Menace Dialogue ))

 

[rr1213]

If I wanna talk to Jesus’s mom, and have her put in a good word for me, you gonna object to that?

Why?

Because it’s a “waste of time”?

Why?

Do you pray for your loved ones?

Why?

Is it a waste of time?

Why not?

So,… 'ya gonna answer me, punk,… Are 'ya…?!

(( Catholic Dennis the Menace Dialogue ))

Because as this thread demonstrates it can be a distraction. Because it is peripheral as opposed to central. Because when you are sick and you need a physician you see a physician not his mother (as blessed a woman as she may be). Because when you need an attorney to plead your case you seek an attorney to plead your case, not the attorney’s mother to plead the case. None of this is intended to suggest disrespect for the Blessed Virgin Mary, just as suggestion that the focus always needs to be on Jesus.

(Now, yes, I know, I know, you will tell me that the focus always is on Jesus because Mary always points towards her Son…yet somehow it just isn’t convincing when we’re discussing bringing statues of Mary into the home rather than statues of Jesus…)

 

[jmcrae]

Because as this thread demonstrates it can be a distraction. Because it is peripheral as opposed to central. Because when you are sick and you need a physician you see a physician not his mother (as blessed a woman as she may be).

But you make the appointment to see him with the woman at the front desk. If she doesn’t put your name on the calendar, you don’t get to see him at all. She’s also the one who tells you what the customs of the office are, and how best to approach him, to get the results that you want.

Because when you need an attorney to plead your case you seek an attorney to plead your case, not the attorney’s mother to plead the case.

But you make the appointment to see him with the woman at the front desk. If she doesn’t put your name on the calendar, you don’t get to see him at all. She’s also the one who tells you what the customs of the office are, and how best to approach him, to get the results that you want.

Jesus is the Davidic King. In the Davidic Kingdom, the King’s mother is the person who organizes the appointments, and decides whose case is urgent enough for a personal appointment, and who can wait, or who can solve their problem in a different way.

Mary, being the Mother of the King, intercedes for us with Jesus. She helps us to pray more perfectly, and she also prays on our behalf.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Because as this thread demonstrates it can be a distraction. Because it is peripheral as opposed to central. Because when you are sick and you need a physician you see a physician not his mother (as blessed a woman as she may be). Because when you need an attorney to plead your case you seek an attorney to plead your case, not the attorney’s mother to plead the case. None of this is intended to suggest disrespect for the Blessed Virgin Mary, just as suggestion that the focus always needs to be on Jesus.

(Now, yes, I know, I know, you will tell me that the focus always is on Jesus because Mary always points towards her Son…yet somehow it just isn’t convincing when we’re discussing bringing statues of Mary into the home rather than statues of Jesus…)

To to any Protestant church in the land and the odds are very good you will hear the Minister ask the congregation to pray for someone who is sick or in difficulties.

Now, that’s the minister praying to the congretation (that’s what “pray” means – “ask”) and he is asking them for intercessory prayer.

No different from asking a saint to intercede for someone.

 

[st_lucy]

We are saved by Christ’s sacrifice not by the Blessed Virgin Mary. Why can’t this gathering take place around a statue of Jesus if there has to be a statute?

So what you are saying rr, is that since you think know exactly what these people are doing they should stop because their is a statue of Mary and not Jesus. I am sure you know this since you have been told here on CAF on many occasions that we don’t worship Mary or statues.

Since you cannot read others heart I sure hope you are not judging them.

Well, I have to go now and say te divine mercy with my children as we do everyday at three. Oh yeah my five year old loves it when we set out the statues. so there will be a statue of Our Lord on the cross in front of us. As well as our lady of Guadalupe. So in your eyes are we paying more attention to Mary and not of Jesus.

 

[rr1213]

But you make the appointment to see him with the woman at the front desk. If she doesn’t put your name on the calendar, you don’t get to see him at all. She’s also the one who tells you what the customs of the office are, and how best to approach him, to get the results that you want.

But you make the appointment to see him with the woman at the front desk. If she doesn’t put your name on the calendar, you don’t get to see him at all. She’s also the one who tells you what the customs of the office are, and how best to approach him, to get the results that you want.

Jesus is the Davidic King. In the Davidic Kingdom, the King’s mother is the person who organizes the appointments, and decides whose case is urgent enough for a personal appointment, and who can wait, or who can solve their problem in a different way.

Mary, being the Mother of the King, intercedes for us with Jesus. She helps us to pray more perfectly, and she also prays on our behalf.

Nah, this is the same Christ who is the only mediator, who told us to come to him because his burden is light, who said in Revelation 3:20 “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.” Jesus has an open door policy…no appointment necessary, just walk in.

 

[Jaypeeto3]

**Jesus is the Davidic King. In the Davidic Kingdom, the King’s mother is the person who organizes the appointments, and decides whose case is urgent enough for a personal appointment, and who can wait, or who can solve their problem in a different way.

**

Protestants don’t realize that the office of Queen Mother (of the Davidic King) is firmly rooted in the Old Testament scriptures, which were the only scriptures the early church had and naturally referred to when trying to understand the role of Mary. The Davidic King’s mother, the Gebirah,
was all arrayed in gold, in Gold of Ophir, and she had a throne at the Davidic King’s right hand, and she brought the petitions of the people before the King and the King would NEVER refuse to listen to her requests. He didn’t always grant them, like Solomon refused to grant one of BathSheba’s requests, but he never refused to HEAR her petitions that the people had asked her to bring before the Davidic King.
Jesus IS the Davidic King, Mary IS the Gebirah, the Queen Mother, and one plus one equals two.

Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

 

[LilyM]

Nah, this is the same Christ who is the only mediator, who told us to come to him because his burden is light, who said in Revelation 3:20 “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.” Jesus has an open door policy…no appointment necessary, just walk in.

And that’s why you ask other people to pray for you and that’s why you pray for them? Because Christ is the only mediator and each of us can just walk in any time and get ourselves heard perfectly well?

Guess what you’re doing when you pray for someone - you are MEDIATING for them, bud. Guess what they are doing when they pray for you - they also are MEDIATING!!! And any mediator will tell you there is strength in numbers and there are ways to approach that are more advantageous than others.

 

[Theodora]

I thought we were past all that, I though we worshiped banners now…

:rotfl: :rotfl:

 

[rr1213]

To to any Protestant church in the land and the odds are very good you will hear the Minister ask the congregation to pray for someone who is sick or in difficulties.

Now, that’s the minister praying to the congretation (that’s what “pray” means – “ask”) and he is asking them for intercessory prayer.

No different from asking a saint to intercede for someone.

Probably. Again, it is a question of focus, emphasis and practice. The devil is in the details.

 

[SAHM02]

wondering…

What does Queen of Heaven, intercessory prayer, and one mediator have to do with the OP?

The OP is about a statue being taken around to different homes…
What does all of this have to do with a statue?

 

[drforjc]

I’d describe it as pilgrimage by proxy. For those who could not go on a physical pilgrimage (for whatever reason- monetary, schedule or family/work responsibilities conflicted, etc.) this is a way for them to bring something from the pilgrimage to them even though they couldn’t actually go.

I don’t see a problem with it.

 

[rr1213]

So what you are saying rr, is that since you think know exactly what these people are doing they should stop because their is a statue of Mary and not Jesus. I am sure you know this since you have been told here on CAF on many occasions that we don’t worship Mary or statues.

Since you cannot read others heart I sure hope you are not judging them.

Well, I have to go now and say te divine mercy with my children as we do everyday at three. Oh yeah my five year old loves it when we set out the statues. so there will be a statue of Our Lord on the cross in front of us. As well as our lady of Guadalupe. So in your eyes are we paying more attention to Mary and not of Jesus.

Now this is unfair criticism. ***Of course ***I know nothing about these people or what they are doing other than what has been posted in this thread. And unless you know them personally neither do you. The OP said that this “doesn’t feel right” and asked for responses. Which I did.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Probably. Again, it is a question of focus, emphasis and practice. The devil is in the details.

Protestant ministers regularly ask (pray to) their congregations to intercede for members who are sick or in difficulty. What details are there for the devil to hide in?

 

[Keikiolu]

Because as this thread demonstrates it can be a distraction. Because it is peripheral as opposed to central. Because when you are sick and you need a physician you see a physician not his mother (as blessed a woman as she may be). Because when you need an attorney to plead your case you seek an attorney to plead your case, not the attorney’s mother to plead the case. None of this is intended to suggest disrespect for the Blessed Virgin Mary, just as suggestion that the focus always needs to be on Jesus.

Curiously enough, it IS always on Jesus.

You just (habitually and relfexively) assume it isn’t.

(Now, yes, I know, I know, you will tell me that the focus always is on Jesus because Mary always points towards her Son…yet somehow it just isn’t convincing when we’re discussing bringing statues of Mary into the home rather than statues of Jesus…)

It isn’t convincing to you out of your prejudice.

I’m not going to try to convince you otherwise, because the only way you’d change your mind is to actually want to understand the position of the Church on Marion doctrine.

You won’t.

Wanting to have as many people, especially important people, praying for you as possible is emminently “convincing”.

The reason you don’t actually answer the questions I asked in my post, specifically whether you pray for your loved ones, and why that isn’t a waste of time, is because it points out this basic silliness of anti-Marions.

Is it, or is it not, good to have as many people praying for you, and your loved ones, and whomever, as possible?

Mary is another person who can pray for us while we’re doing elsewhat.

Is it not better to have help?