Can't use Yaweh any more?

[turtleoompa]

So are we not to use Jehovah also?

 

[MarkThompson]

So are we not to use Jehovah also?

This, I think, is covered by the letter I linked above. The letter states that “[t]he practice of vocalizing [the sacred Tetragrammaton] . . . occurs in diverse written and spoken forms, such as, for example, ‘Yahweh,’ ‘Yahwè’, ‘Jahweh,’ Jahwè,’ ‘Jave,’ ‘Yehovah,’ etc.” It then directs: “In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton YHWH is neither to be used or pronounced.” Since “Jehovah” is a vocalized form of the Tetragrammaton, it is not to be pronounced in the liturgy.

 

[Brendan]

So are we not to use Jehovah also?

That is correct. Jehovah is really just a German spelling for “Yahweh”.

Saying that is pretty much making a claim, in Hebrew, that you are Existance Itself.

There were reasons that the Jews did not pronounce that word, or that the Early Christians translated that word as Kyrie (Lord), reasons that still exist today.

Perhaps that is the real ‘dumbing down’ that exists in the Church, that the philosophical underpinnings of the Sacred Tetragammon are lost to many of today’s Catholics, when they were so apparent to the Jews and Early Christians.

 

[Phemie]

I was telling my husband about this discussion and why the Church decided we shouldn’t use “Yaweh” in the Liturgy or Hymns. I thought he summed it up quite well. He said the way of the Church seemed to be going the way of our culture which is to “dumb it down” for those of us who can’t read or pronounce the words.

I really think it’s pretty dumb that they made this decision when there are so many other issues that are so much more important.

How is it dumbing down? It has nothing to do with inability to read the word: tradition for many thousand years (long before Jesus Christ) dictated that the sacred Tetragrammaton never be pronounced. All of a sudden hymn writers of the 60s decided to throw tradition out the window. The Church is just reining them back in.

 

[5Loaves]

I recall when the word “Yahweh” came into fashion in the late 1960s. Those teaching religion classes in parochial schools (early on, it was still mostly religious sisters with “modified” habits at first, then no habits at all), CCD (usually directed by those very same religious sisters), etc, all of sudden started using that word when speaking of the OT. Apparently it was part of the whole “spirit of Vatican II” thing, and frankly I could never make sense of it. I’m very pleased that the pendulum has officially swung back to where it should have stayed all along.

…All of a sudden hymn writers of the 60s decided to throw tradition out the window. The Church is just reining them back in.

Dan Schutte who authored “You Are Near” attributes his use to the publication at that time of the Jerusalem Bible which used “Yahweh” whenever the Tetragrammaton YHWH appeared in the original Hebrew text. He said 8/08 he was preparing an " ‘official’ revised text" for the song. With thousands of years of singing liturgical music sans the Tetragrammaton I wonder why it’s a challenge to make such a revision, or having been made, such a challenge to get it to the choir directors.

 

[MarkThompson]

Dan Schutte who authored “You Are Near” attributes his use to the publication at that time of the Jerusalem Bible which used “Yahweh” whenever the Tetragrammaton YHWH appeared in the original Hebrew text. He said 8/08 he was preparing an " ‘official’ revised text" for the song. With thousands of years of singing liturgical music sans the Tetragrammaton I wonder why it’s a challenge to make such a revision, or having been made, such a challenge to get it to the choir directors.

This was revised like two years ago and OCP, to their credit, promptly announced it and revised all subsequent missallettes. I believe the hymn in question now starts, “O Lord, I know you are near.” On the other hand, here’s a complete EWTN FAIL from last year.

 

[benedictgal]

Dan Schutte who authored “You Are Near” attributes his use to the publication at that time of the Jerusalem Bible which used “Yahweh” whenever the Tetragrammaton YHWH appeared in the original Hebrew text. He said 8/08 he was preparing an " ‘official’ revised text" for the song. With thousands of years of singing liturgical music sans the Tetragrammaton I wonder why it’s a challenge to make such a revision, or having been made, such a challenge to get it to the choir directors.

I read the piece. He is just trying to find a way to justify a bad piece of music. He is still insistent that this song was appropriate. I was hoping that the song was just go away.

 

[choy]

I read the piece. He is just trying to find a way to justify a bad piece of music. He is still insistent that this song was appropriate. I was hoping that the song was just go away.

but its one of my favorite songs :crying:

 

[Elizium23]

but its one of my favorite songs :crying:

And I agree it’s great for the radio or for CD or MP3, but not in the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Church calls us to use a different style of music than that.

 

[choy]

And I agree it’s great for the radio or for CD or MP3, but not in the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Church calls us to use a different style of music than that.

where does it say we can’t use it in Mass?

 

[benedictgal]

where does it say we can’t use it in Mass?

Choy, with all due respect, did you not read any of the documentation stemming from the Holy See, including Liturgiam Authenticam? Even Cardinal Arinze’s letter is very clear about that.

 

[choy]

Choy, with all due respect, did you not read any of the documentation stemming from the Holy See, including Liturgiam Authenticam? Even Cardinal Arinze’s letter is very clear about that.

my question was simple, where does it say we CANNOT use that song in Mass?

 

[jmcrae]

So are we not to use Jehovah also?

Yikes. No. That would be even worse, since “Jehovah” is just “Yahweh,” mispronounced.

I’ve always been uncomfortable with the whole hippie, flower-child, being-on-a-first-name-basis-with-God thing anyway - I’m glad the Church is finally stepping in and putting a stop to it.

 

[jmcrae]

my question was simple, where does it say we CANNOT use that song in Mass?

In the Directive to music liturgists, from the Vatican, which is referenced in the hymnal.

 

[benedictgal]

my question was simple, where does it say we CANNOT use that song in Mass?

Here it is from the CDWDS:

II. Directives

In light of what has [just] been expounded, the following directives are to be observed:

1. In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton YHWH is neither to be used or pronounced.

1. For the translation of the biblical text in modern languages, intended for the liturgical usage of the Church, what is already prescribed by n. 41 of the Instruction Liturgiam authenticam is to be followed; that is, the divine tetragrammaton is to be rendered by the equivalent of Adonai/Kyrios; “Lord,” Signore, Seigneur, Herr, Señor, etc.

1. In translating, in the liturgical context, texts in which are present, one after the other, either the Hebrew term Adonai or the tetragrammaton YHWH, Adonai is to be translated “Lord” and the [word] “God” is to be used for the tetragrammaton YHWH, similar to what happens in the Greek translation of the Septuagint and in the Latin translation of the Vulgate.

I don’t think that it could have been expressed any clearer.

 

[Brendan]

Yikes. No. That would be even worse, since “Jehovah” is just “Yahweh,” mispronounced.

:

Technically speaking, that is simply how you write “Yahweh” in German. It is pronounced 'Ya -vay" in German.

 

[jmcrae]

Technically speaking, that is simply how you write “Yahweh” in German. It is pronounced 'Ya -vay" in German.

I wasn’t aware of that. The only place I’ve seen it is in Jehovah’s Witness materials, and they of course pronounce it according to the English pronunciation of those letter combinations.

 

[choy]

In the Directive to music liturgists, from the Vatican, which is referenced in the hymnal.

no, we cannot use the word Yahweh
i’m talking about the song itself, with revised lyrics

 

[choy]

Here it is from the CDWDS:

I don’t think that it could have been expressed any clearer.

i thought that conversation was already at the point where we’re already talking about the song with the revised lyrics

 

[Brendan]

I wasn’t aware of that. The only place I’ve seen it is in Jehovah’s Witness materials, and they of course pronounce it according to the English pronunciation of those letter combinations.

It entered the English lexicon through German\Lutheran theologians such as Zwigli, so it has been around for quite awhile. One English Civil War regiment used it as a regimental motto “Jehova Provit” , which is a wierd mix of German and Latin, but hey, they were Roundheads simply trying to sound smart

But you are correct in that if used as an English word, and pronounced as such, it’s even worse