Can't we stick together?

[Roman_Catholic_1]

If you and I are out together sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, how important is it that the person ends up in the CC, IYO?

My point was, based on my experience, I don’t think you and I would be out sharing the Gospel together in the first place. Perhaps I am jaded. An anti-Catholic fundamentalist FIL will do that to you But that is why I asked if it was anyone else’s experience.

To your question I believe what the Catholic Church teaches that “…All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.” CCC 818 and …Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church… CCC 819

My answer is, it depends. It depends on their reason for rejecting the Catholic Church. Ultimately it is the Holy Spirit that converts the heart, not me.

God bless you

 

[Dokimas]

My point was, based on my experience, I don’t think you and I would be out sharing the Gospel together in the first place.

My answer is, it depends. It depends on their reason for rejecting the Catholic Church. Ultimately it is the Holy Spirit that converts the heart, not me.

God bless you

Not to share the Gospel together would be your choice. BTW, the Gospel to me to be shared is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1ff.

Whose speaking about rejecting the CC? Just because I don’t go to the CC doesn’t mean I reject it as a place to have a relationship with Jesus and His children. I don’t accept some of its teachings, but that should NEVER be an issue in sharing the Gospel. If a person truly responds to the Holy Spirit and the Gospel, I’m sure He can lead the new convert to the church best designed for her/him. The Holy Spirit doesn’t need our help, although He may ask us to be involved.

 

[Cat]

Chuck Colson is my hero and has been for many years. He’s an intellectual that writes and speaks at a level that non-intellectuals can understand. He’s also a tireless worker for good charitable causes, which, IMO, is what Jesus wants us to do more than sit around and post on CAF!

To the OP–are you aware that Chuck Colson and Father Richard John Neuhaus started Evangelicals and Catholics Together, an organization that is dedicated to finding common ground between these two denominations? Google the organization. Many great Evangelical Protestant leaders, as well as Catholic leaders, have signed their documents. One of the greatest leaders to sign the ECT documents was Dr. Bill Bright (God rest his soul), the founder and president of Campus Crusade for Christ.

One of the notable Evangelical leaders who has not signed the documents is J.I. Packer.

Perhaps my mention of those Protestant names will help you to decide whether or not you are a supporter or opponent of ECT.

Colson and Neuhaus worked hard to bring the Orthodox Church into this organization, too, but last I heard, it hasn’t happened yet.

If you haven’t already read it, read Being the Body, by Chuck Colson and Ellen Vaughn. It’s a fantastic book that puts out the call to come together and work in unity to advance the Gospel in this sin-filled world. I recommend it to Catholics and Protestants. But if you’re Protestant, be careful–it was one of the factors that helped me decide to convert from Evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism!

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Not to share the Gospel together would be your choice. BTW, the Gospel to me to be shared is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1ff

I disagree. Again, if you go back to my original post in this thread I am basing this on my experience; that usually it is evangelicals who do not want to “stick together” with Catholics. I was curious if this was others experience. My experience is flawed because it is based on my experience and is therefore limited to… my experience. Hence the reason for my question.

Just because I don’t go to the CC doesn’t mean I reject it as a place to have a relationship with Jesus and His children.

Did I say you did? Perhaps a reread of my post would be beneficial? Particularly my quotes of the CCC to which I said I very much agree with.

God bless you

 

[Dokimas]

I disagree. Again, if you go back to my original post in this thread I am basing this on my experience; that usually it is evangelicals who do not want to “stick together” with Catholics. I was curious if this was others experience. My experience is flawed because it is based on my experience and is therefore limited to… my experience. Hence the reason for my question.

Did I say you did? Perhaps a reread of my post would be beneficial? Particularly my quotes of the CCC to which I said I very much agree with.

God bless you

What I was saying is that if you and I did not share the Gospel together with unbelievers, as I’ve commented on, it would be your choice not mine.​

I’m not sure what the conversation was about that I felt I had to make the comment the way I did. If you can string them together, I’ll better understand and will most likely be able to answer your question.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

What I was saying is that if you and I did not share the Gospel together with unbelievers, as I’ve commented on, it would be your choice not mine.​

I’m not sure what the conversation was about that I felt I had to make the comment the way I did. If you can string them together, I’ll better understand and will most likely be able to answer your question.

yellowbird stated that there is already Catholics and Evangelicals working together on “many issues.” Yellowbird used the pro-life issue as an example.

You then responded:

How about lost souls?

I took that to mean that you were asking whether or not Catholic and Evangelicals have, could or would work together in reaching lost souls. My question was directly related to that; whether it had been other’s experience that it was evangelicals (some not all) who do not want to “stick together” in that venture with Catholics. I used Wretched Radio as an example of my experience that saw the Manhattan declaration as a “compramise of the true Christian faith” because they were signing it with, what they felt, were non-Christians, ie Catholics.

When Catholics and Evangelicals do not “stick together” in reaching lost souls, has it been other’s experience that it was Evangelicals who did not want to “stick together” with Catholics? That was my question.

God bless you

 

[GraceSofia]

One of the notable Evangelical leaders who has not signed the documents is J.I. Packer.

Just sort of a by the way, I just googled and found 2 sites which said that J. I. Packer had signed. John White signed originally and then removed his name at some later date.

 

[GraceSofia]

the Gospel to me to be shared is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1ff.

What verse is this?

Whose speaking about rejecting the CC? Just because I don’t go to the CC doesn’t mean I reject it as a place to have a relationship with Jesus and His children. I don’t accept some of its teachings, but that should NEVER be an issue in sharing the Gospel. If a person truly responds to the Holy Spirit and the Gospel, I’m sure He can lead the new convert to the church best designed for her/him. The Holy Spirit doesn’t need our help, although He may ask us to be involved.

Great! I’m glad to hear that.
I think Christians should work together on things like saving souls and fighting the so-called culture wars. And we need to present a united front to an unbelieving world and to other religions.

 

[Dokimas]

What verse is this?

Great! I’m glad to hear that.
I think Christians should work together on things like saving souls and fighting the so-called culture wars. And we need to present a united front to an unbelieving world and to other religions.

That means in the First letter to the Corinthians, chapter 15 starting at verse one and reads several f(f)ollowing verses.​

Agreed. The world needs to see all Christians love each other as fellow heirs to the Kingdom of which Jesus is King, Lord, Savior, Lion, Lamb, etc.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Just sort of a by the way, I just googled and found 2 sites which said that J. I. Packer had signed. John White signed originally and then removed his name at some later date.

I would be very curious as to why. Would you know? Was there a reason given?

God bless you

 

[GraceSofia]

My point was, based on my experience, I don’t think you and I would be out sharing the Gospel together in the first place. Perhaps I am jaded. An anti-Catholic fundamentalist FIL will do that to you But that is why I asked if it was anyone else’s experience.

My experience, and it is only my experience, has been that many evangelicals will say either to my face or behind my back that Catholics are not Christians and/or are not saved. I was extremely uncomfortable in a protestant-led Bible-study knowing that people thought I was lost/damned. I gave up going. The Catholics I know consider that Protestants are Christians, just not having the fullness of the faith.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

My experience, and it is only my experience, has been that many evangelicals will say either to my face or behind my back that Catholics are not Christians and/or are not saved. I was extremely uncomfortable in a protestant-led Bible-study knowing that people thought I was lost/damned. I gave up going. The Catholics I know consider that Protestants are Christians, just not having the fullness of the faith.

Yep, I would wish that experience on no one. My wife has not spoken to her fundamentalist father in going on 3 years now (other than an occasional anti-catholic email here and there) because of her conversion to the CC. It has, and always will, seem strange to me that evangelicals, who accept such a wide range of beliefs on numerous beliefs, find the need to suddenly make a stand with Catholics (in that they believe Catholics are not christians) because of *such and such *belief held by the Catholic Church.

Again, though, this is certainly not true for all evangelicals (my wife was one example of an evangelical who was not like that) and I would be willing to argue that it is probably a small minority of them. They are just the most vocal of them. And they seem to gravitate towards me

God bless you

 

[GraceSofia]

I would be very curious as to why. Would you know? Was there a reason given?

God bless you

No reason given. Here is where I found it: seekgod.ca/ect.htm

Christianity Today has a couple of long articles on the subject. The answer might be in them.

 

[GraceSofia]

And they seem to gravitate towards me

Or maybe it’s just they’re in your wife’s orbit, so to speak, so you get a few meteor showers now and then.

 

[GraceSofia]

That means in the First letter to the Corinthians, chapter 15 starting at verse one and reads several f(f)ollowing verses.

Oh, thanks! I learn something new every day.

Agreed. The world needs to see all Christians love each other as fellow heirs to the Kingdom of which Jesus is King, Lord, Savior, Lion, Lamb, etc.

Amen!

 

[yellowbird]

My experience, and it is only my experience, has been that many evangelicals will say either to my face or behind my back that Catholics are not Christians and/or are not saved. I was extremely uncomfortable in a protestant-led Bible-study knowing that people thought I was lost/damned. I gave up going. The Catholics I know consider that Protestants are Christians, just not having the fullness of the faith.

Sadly, this has been my experience as well. I atteneded a “non-denominational” Bible study for years called Bible Study Fellowship (BSF). The small group discussion leaders were from a variety of Chrisitan backgrounds… Lutheran, Church of Christ, Baptist ect… all were allowed to lead a group - but not Catholics. They had previously asked me to lead but when they found out I had converted to the Catholic Church, they kindly said my help was no longer needed.

I’ve found that Protestants - esp. Evangelicals believe I am saved in spite of my Church… like I’m some sort of Catholic yet Christian anomaly.

 

[JRKH]

Can we find areas to agree on so the Gospel of Jesus able to save souls can go to the lost souls of our world? Jesus said they’d know us by our love for one another (or something quite like that).

Yes we can but what is more important and to the point is can we find a way to settle disputes between us so that we may speak with one voice and fulfill Christ’s prayer that we be one as he and the Father are one (John 17:20-21). Without some way of settling doctrinal disputes we are left with “diminishing returns”.
For Instance

You and I sit down and review our beliefs. We come up with a list of 15 things we agree on. Result = 15 points of agreement.
We take the list to someone from another denomination. They agree with most things on the list but disagree on 2. Result = 13 points of agreement.
We take the list to another. They agree with all but one Result = 12 points of agreement.
And so on.
See what I mean by diminishing return?
By the time we get through all of the various denominational groups I suspect that the list would be rather short.
And could very well NOT include homosexuality (the issue in your OP).

The only way to restore and maintain a unified Gospel is to have a mechanism whereby Doctrinal disputes can be intelligently and prayerfully discussed by “officers” of the church(es) and decisions reached based, not on current sensabilities, but on Christian orthodoxy, historical teachings, and Scripture etc. Then each and every person, from each and every community needs to accept these decisions, reached in council, and submit, to the decisions of the church in council. Not unlike the Judaizers in Acts had to submit, in humility, to the decision of the Council in Jerusalem

The Catholic Church, with it’s reliance on the Magisterium, has the mechanism for resolving disuptes and in most cases it works very well. Each time a decision is made, a new or modified teaching is issued, there are those who agree and those who disagree with it. However, those who disagree humbly submit their own personal view to that of “The Church in Rome”.

Is there any hope that the non-catholic communites could ever create such a mechanism?

Peace
James