Can't Wrap My Head Around Mariology

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It appears I have come to an absolute wall in my quest for Truth and clarity. It is very disappointing and disheartening when you’ve done the following:
  1. Accepted that the See of Peter is indeed the rightful leader of the Christian Church. I have looked at both Orthodox and Roman Catholic arguments on this. And while I believe that the Orthodox reverence of mystery and tradition is a fine thing (and in many ways to be emulated), I cannot help but see in my minds eye shelter being sought in the storm that is this Christian life, with a sign sticking out saying “We’ll hang back and wait”. Indeed, maybe there is something to be said for such a faith, something more than my finite, Catholic leaning cerebrum can contemplate.
  2. Protestantism provides no lasting, true edification of the human spirit it would seem. Evangelism and teaching the general maxim’s of the Christian life is one thing. But to reject the authority of the Church (despite her misgivings and imperfections), and worse yet, to write off the Eucharist as a mere ‘symbol’ or ‘memorial’ brings me to nausea. Need I even mention that the father of the Reformation wrote “On the Jews and Their Lies”?
But what of Mariology?? Truly, what of it?! It just doesn’t seem to fit with Apostolic teaching. Visions? Crying Statues? What?! (Please do not take offense at my ignorance and confusion). The teachings of Christ, the Apostles, and their successors bring both clarity, universal truths and edification to the Catholic faith and it’s 1 billion plus adherents.

However, what do visions and admonishments to some nuns in Japan, Spain, or Mexico have to do with the Catholic faith? So many question marks come up about this for me.

My foot is hanging over the edge and I’m absolutely ready to take the plunge. All I ask is for someone to point me to some clear and concise teachings on this. What about any Traditional Anglicans (such as myself) who’ve had to struggle with this? Any takers?

In Christ,

James
 
It appears I have come to an absolute wall in my quest for Truth and clarity. It is very disappointing and disheartening when you’ve done the following:

But what of Mariology?? Truly, what of it?! It just doesn’t seem to fit with Apostolic teaching. Visions? Crying Statues? What?! (Please do not take offense at my ignorance and confusion). The teachings of Christ, the Apostles, and their successors bring both clarity, universal truths and edification to the Catholic faith and it’s 1 billion plus adherents.
Hi James, I don’t get Mariology either. I simply ignore it. There is nothing saying you have to say the Rosary or ask Mary to pray for you. Different strokes for different folks.
 
It appears I have come to an absolute wall in my quest for Truth and clarity. It is very disappointing and disheartening when you’ve done the following:
  1. Accepted that the See of Peter is indeed the rightful leader of the Christian Church. I have looked at both Orthodox and Roman Catholic arguments on this. And while I believe that the Orthodox reverence of mystery and tradition is a fine thing (and in many ways to be emulated), I cannot help but see in my minds eye shelter being sought in the storm that is this Christian life, with a sign sticking out saying “We’ll hang back and wait”. Indeed, maybe there is something to be said for such a faith, something more than my finite, Catholic leaning cerebrum can contemplate.
  2. Protestantism provides no lasting, true edification of the human spirit it would seem. Evangelism and teaching the general maxim’s of the Christian life is one thing. But to reject the authority of the Church (despite her misgivings and imperfections), and worse yet, to write off the Eucharist as a mere ‘symbol’ or ‘memorial’ brings me to nausea. Need I even mention that the father of the Reformation wrote “On the Jews and Their Lies”?
But what of Mariology?? Truly, what of it?! It just doesn’t seem to fit with Apostolic teaching. Visions? Crying Statues? What?! (Please do not take offense at my ignorance and confusion). The teachings of Christ, the Apostles, and their successors bring both clarity, universal truths and edification to the Catholic faith and it’s 1 billion plus adherents.

However, what do visions and admonishments to some nuns in Japan, Spain, or Mexico have to do with the Catholic faith? So many question marks come up about this for me.

My foot is hanging over the edge and I’m absolutely ready to take the plunge. All I ask is for someone to point me to some clear and concise teachings on this. What about any Traditional Anglicans (such as myself) who’ve had to struggle with this? Any takers?

In Christ,

James
Since visions and crying statues are not something you have to believe in to be Catholic, could you provide us with some actual Marian doctrines that are causing you grief?
 
James,

Greetings to you. I am excited to hear about your interest in the Catholic Church. As a convert to the Church (from Presbyterianism), it always excites me to hear about this sort of thing.

Being reluctant about “all that Mary business” is a very normal thing to occur for those new to the Church. Before I make my remarks, I would like to recommend you some excellent resources that will clear all of this up for you.

Catholic Apologist Mark Shea’s Trilogy “Mary, Mother of the Son”. This series is an all encompassing look at Mary in Catholicism that looks at it from every possible angle and does great in depth explanations of all Marian related teachings. It can be found here: amazon.com/Mary-Mother-Son-Vol-I/dp/1933919191/ref=pd_sim_b_1

amazon.com/Mary-Mother-Son-Vol-II/dp/1933919205/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

amazon.com/Mary-Mother-Son-Vol-III/dp/1933919213/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Also helpful is this book:
amazon.com/Refuting-Attack-Mary-Defense-Doctrines/dp/1888992085/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382744020&sr=1-1&keywords=refuting+the+attack+on+mary

Now, let me say two things by way of clarification.

1. Not every claimed “vision” about Mary is approved by the Church. There is plenty of nonsense out there, and weird people claiming all manner of things. That’s why it’s good to stick to the officially Church approved visions.

2. Although Marian devotion in the West and East can take significantly different forms, you will find that Marian devotion in the East can be very intense. In terms of the actual liturgy, it far surpasses anything in the west. In addition, the early Protestant reformers held to a significant Marian take on things, but it faded with the advent of Puritanism.

Now, let me give you just a brief run down of some of the key Marian concepts in the Church, hopefully this will help you understand it all a bit better.

The starting concept is this: The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, in assuming a human nature, became the only person who had the opportunity to choose his own Mother. All of us are born with Mothers that were not of our choosing. But Christ was able to choose whom he wished to dwell in, indeed, even create her! It is for this reason that Catholics hold that Mary is the star of God’s creation, because God prepared her as his own holy temple! It is for this reason the Church teaches the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Mary was preserved from all stain of Original Sin because she was to be a Holy Ark of the New covenant, if you will, in which The Lord of Glory would dwell.

Now, in the account of the Fall of mankind in Genesis we see that through Eve’s disobedience, Adam plunged the human race into death. Eve made the fall possible, and the fall was actually enacted through the transgression of Adam. In redemption, Mary will make redemption possible, and Christ will actually redeem us. We see not only Christ as a new and better Adam, but Mary as a new and better Eve. God wanted the free consent of his creature in this redemption, and he got it in Mary, who is the ultimate Daughter of Zion. Mary’s “Yes!” to God is what enabled the Incarnation and Redemption. It is this reason that the Church fathers said “Death through Eve, Life through Mary.” Mary’s “yes” to God continued all the way through the ministry of Jesus, to the end of her life. She never forsook God through any personal sin.

Moving on, then, Mary is not only the Mother of Jesus, but our Spiritual Mother as well. This is apart of what it means to be United to Christ. When Christ was on the Cross he said to the Apostle John, who was at the foot of the cross in place of all of us, “Man, behold thy Mother”. We believe this was spoken to all of us. Indeed, Revelation 12 speaks of those who follow the testimony of Jesus as “offspring” of the woman. So Mary is the Mother of all believers. She was with Jesus at the hour of his death, and her sufferings were closely united to his sufferings on the Cross.

At the end of Mary’s earthly life, the Church teaches she was assumed into heaven, both body and Spirit, by God. This was Christ’s special reward to his most faithful follower. The womb that bore the incarnate Son of God would not be allowed to see corruption.

When Mary was then in heavenly glory, she was crowned as the Queen of Heaven and Earth. This has Old Testament roots.In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen Mother would rule on a throne beside her King Son. This emphasized the Son’s rightful decent. It is the same way in the New Covenant, Mary reigns under Christ as the Queen. In this role, as the Queen and The Mother of the Faithful, she intercedes for us, being closest to her Son, bringing us the fruit of her womb, Jesus.

That is a very brief synopsis of Catholic Marian belief, but the end of the matter is this: We honor Mary because we worship Christ. Mary is our Mother and guide in the faith, who ever anew shows us the blessed fruit of Her womb, Jesus.
 
Hi James, I don’t get Mariology either. I simply ignore it. There is nothing saying you have to say the Rosary or ask Mary to pray for you. Different strokes for different folks.
No, but you do have to believe in the dogmatic teachings of the Church. Such as, Mary’s status as Mother of God, Her Immaculate conception and sinless life, her assumption into Heaven, her Spiritual motherhood and intercession for us.

None the less, even if you do believe in these Dogma’s, you are living in an impoverished spiritual state without a close relationship with Mary, Mother of the Faithful.
 
Since visions and crying statues are not something you have to believe in to be Catholic, could you provide us with some actual Marian doctrines that are causing you grief?
Hi Credo,

What I have highlighted in bold seems to be the rub for me. I quote here regarding the apparition of Our Lady of Akita "Sister Sasagawa stated that the Virgin Mary told her: “Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone (bold is mine) am able still to save you from the calamities which approach.” Is this not the expounding of a doctrine? Can you perhaps sense my trepidation?

It follows that what was seen and taught here is either:

A) 100% truthful and (somehow) centered around our (or perhaps her own personal) salvation.
B) The Nun was mentally disturbed, lonely, hallucinatory, or a combination thereof.
C) Demonic activity

Again, after these have been thought through and contemplated, even more questions arise. Especially if such an apparition is ever officially recognized by the Church.

However more to the important point. Since my belief and acceptance of such things does not impede my going into the full Catholic faith (according to some posters) the next step is RCIA.

In Christ,

James
 
TRH,

Your works are fruitful. Although I will explore this all the more now and hopefully RCIA will shed more light.

A little light just went on.

In Christ,

James
 
I totally get where your coming from James. I am in RCIA right now (Thank God!) and this was a hurdle for me.

How I got over that hurdle.

Your point number one is critical. Once I realized that I totally accepted that the See of Peter is the head of the church and is protected from error by the Holy Spirit. That the Pope and Church of Rome had the AUTHORITY to settle doctrinal issues, then the rest sort of falls into place right?

I mean you either believe the Holy Spirit has protected them or not regarding Marian dogma.

So what are you required to believe about Mary??? This is the Huge QUESTION!

Crying statues, and rosaries, and visions. No you do not have to believe any of it.

Even the huge apparitions like lourdes and guadalupe, you are free to believe or not believe.

One thing I like about Catholicism though is that it is still in touch with the miraculous, so I would encourage you to put these things on the shelf for a while and slowly study them over time once you’ve joined the church.

So what do you need to believe…? See below!
 
Hi Credo,

What I have highlighted in bold seems to be the rub for me. I quote here regarding the apparition of Our Lady of Akita "Sister Sasagawa stated that the Virgin Mary told her: “Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone (bold is mine) am able still to save you from the calamities which approach.” Is this not the expounding of a doctrine?
No. Private revelations do not teach doctrine.
Can you perhaps sense my trepidation?
It follows that what was seen and taught here is either:
A) 100% truthful and (somehow) centered around our (or perhaps her own personal) salvation.
B) The Nun was mentally disturbed, lonely, hallucinatory, or a combination thereof.
C) Demonic activity
Or

D. Her perception of the message she was receiving, which was no doubt colored by her individual perspective.
Again, after these have been thought through and contemplated, even more questions arise. Especially if such an apparition is ever officially recognized by the Church.
However more to the important point. Since my belief and acceptance of such things does not impede my going into the full Catholic faith (according to some posters) the next step is RCIA.
The mechanics of RCIA have, in my case, proved a far more formidable obstacle than any doctrine. It’s weeded me out at least twice . . . .

Edwin
 
So here is pretty much what the church requires you to believe about Mary. Dont make your hurdle higher than it needs to be!
963 Since the Virgin Mary’s role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is ‘clearly the mother of the members of Christ’ . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
I. MARY’S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH
Wholly united with her Son . . .
964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. “This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death”;504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:
Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505
965 After her Son’s Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507
. . . also in her Assumption
966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:
In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509
. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace
967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.
968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512
970 "Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514
  • II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517
 
And Finally, this is the last portion of the Catechism on Mary:
III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH
972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own “pilgrimage of faith,” and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, “in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity,” "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.
In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.519
973 By pronouncing her “fiat” at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.
974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son’s Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.
975 “We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ” (Paul VI, CPG § 15).
 
It appears I have come to an absolute wall in my quest for Truth and clarity. It is very disappointing and disheartening when you’ve done the following:
  1. Accepted that the See of Peter is indeed the rightful leader of the Christian Church. I have looked at both Orthodox and Roman Catholic arguments on this. And while I believe that the Orthodox reverence of mystery and tradition is a fine thing (and in many ways to be emulated), I cannot help but see in my minds eye shelter being sought in the storm that is this Christian life, with a sign sticking out saying “We’ll hang back and wait”. Indeed, maybe there is something to be said for such a faith, something more than my finite, Catholic leaning cerebrum can contemplate.
  2. Protestantism provides no lasting, true edification of the human spirit it would seem. Evangelism and teaching the general maxim’s of the Christian life is one thing. But to reject the authority of the Church (despite her misgivings and imperfections), and worse yet, to write off the Eucharist as a mere ‘symbol’ or ‘memorial’ brings me to nausea. Need I even mention that the father of the Reformation wrote “On the Jews and Their Lies”?
But what of Mariology?? Truly, what of it?! It just doesn’t seem to fit with Apostolic teaching. Visions? Crying Statues? What?! (Please do not take offense at my ignorance and confusion). The teachings of Christ, the Apostles, and their successors bring both clarity, universal truths and edification to the Catholic faith and it’s 1 billion plus adherents.

However, what do visions and admonishments to some nuns in Japan, Spain, or Mexico have to do with the Catholic faith? So many question marks come up about this for me.

My foot is hanging over the edge and I’m absolutely ready to take the plunge. All I ask is for someone to point me to some clear and concise teachings on this. What about any Traditional Anglicans (such as myself) who’ve had to struggle with this? Any takers?

In Christ,

James
Keep it simple Mary is the mother of Jesus who is the second part of the trinity. So she’s the mother of God, having said that if somebody wanted to be your friend wouldn’t you want them to respect your mom? Same with Jesus, you can’t have love him w/o given the respect to his mother.

Mary is a topic that Protestants use to keep ppl away. But Jesus doesn’t get bothered if you love his mother. Remember she said at the wedding at Cana, do whatever he tells you.
 
Visions or apparitions are not binding on the faithful. If you don’t want to believe in them, you don’t have to.
 
James,

Greetings to you. I am excited to hear about your interest in the Catholic Church. As a convert to the Church (from Presbyterianism), it always excites me to hear about this sort of thing.

Being reluctant about “all that Mary business” is a very normal thing to occur for those new to the Church. Before I make my remarks, I would like to recommend you some excellent resources that will clear all of this up for you.

Catholic Apologist Mark Shea’s Trilogy “Mary, Mother of the Son”. This series is an all encompassing look at Mary in Catholicism that looks at it from every possible angle and does great in depth explanations of all Marian related teachings. It can be found here: amazon.com/Mary-Mother-Son-Vol-I/dp/1933919191/ref=pd_sim_b_1

amazon.com/Mary-Mother-Son-Vol-II/dp/1933919205/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

amazon.com/Mary-Mother-Son-Vol-III/dp/1933919213/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Also helpful is this book:
amazon.com/Refuting-Attack-Mary-Defense-Doctrines/dp/1888992085/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382744020&sr=1-1&keywords=refuting+the+attack+on+mary

Now, let me say two things by way of clarification.

1. Not every claimed “vision” about Mary is approved by the Church. There is plenty of nonsense out there, and weird people claiming all manner of things. That’s why it’s good to stick to the officially Church approved visions.

2. Although Marian devotion in the West and East can take significantly different forms, you will find that Marian devotion in the East can be very intense. In terms of the actual liturgy, it far surpasses anything in the west. In addition, the early Protestant reformers held to a significant Marian take on things, but it faded with the advent of Puritanism.

Now, let me give you just a brief run down of some of the key Marian concepts in the Church, hopefully this will help you understand it all a bit better.

The starting concept is this: The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, in assuming a human nature, became the only person who had the opportunity to choose his own Mother. All of us are born with Mothers that were not of our choosing. But Christ was able to choose whom he wished to dwell in, indeed, even create her! It is for this reason that Catholics hold that Mary is the star of God’s creation, because God prepared her as his own holy temple! It is for this reason the Church teaches the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Mary was preserved from all stain of Original Sin because she was to be a Holy Ark of the New covenant, if you will, in which The Lord of Glory would dwell.

Now, in the account of the Fall of mankind in Genesis we see that through Eve’s disobedience, Adam plunged the human race into death. Eve made the fall possible, and the fall was actually enacted through the transgression of Adam. In redemption, Mary will make redemption possible, and Christ will actually redeem us. We see not only Christ as a new and better Adam, but Mary as a new and better Eve. God wanted the free consent of his creature in this redemption, and he got it in Mary, who is the ultimate Daughter of Zion. Mary’s “Yes!” to God is what enabled the Incarnation and Redemption. It is this reason that the Church fathers said “Death through Eve, Life through Mary.” Mary’s “yes” to God continued all the way through the ministry of Jesus, to the end of her life. She never forsook God through any personal sin.

Moving on, then, Mary is not only the Mother of Jesus, but our Spiritual Mother as well. This is apart of what it means to be United to Christ. When Christ was on the Cross he said to the Apostle John, who was at the foot of the cross in place of all of us, “Man, behold thy Mother”. We believe this was spoken to all of us. Indeed, Revelation 12 speaks of those who follow the testimony of Jesus as “offspring” of the woman. So Mary is the Mother of all believers. She was with Jesus at the hour of his death, and her sufferings were closely united to his sufferings on the Cross.

At the end of Mary’s earthly life, the Church teaches she was assumed into heaven, both body and Spirit, by God. This was Christ’s special reward to his most faithful follower. The womb that bore the incarnate Son of God would not be allowed to see corruption.

When Mary was then in heavenly glory, she was crowned as the Queen of Heaven and Earth. This has Old Testament roots.In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen Mother would rule on a throne beside her King Son. This emphasized the Son’s rightful decent. It is the same way in the New Covenant, Mary reigns under Christ as the Queen. In this role, as the Queen and The Mother of the Faithful, she intercedes for us, being closest to her Son, bringing us the fruit of her womb, Jesus.

That is a very brief synopsis of Catholic Marian belief, but the end of the matter is this: We honor Mary because we worship Christ. Mary is our Mother and guide in the faith, who ever anew shows us the blessed fruit of Her womb, Jesus.
I was going to suggest Mark Shea as well, or Scott Hahns. Great post, thanks!
 
Keep it simple Mary is the mother of Jesus who is the second part of the trinity. So she’s the mother of God, having said that if somebody wanted to be your friend wouldn’t you want them to respect your mom? Same with Jesus, you can’t have love him w/o given the respect to his mother.

Mary is a topic that Protestants use to keep ppl away. But Jesus doesn’t get bothered if you love his mother. Remember she said at the wedding at Cana, do whatever he tells you.
Chero,

I pray the Angelus when I wake up and when I go to bed. I know full well that to love Christ is to love his Mother. Helpers here need not worry that I am some Hyper Calvinist, Matthew Henry reading redactive heretic, far from it. My questions simply are those concerning doctrine as regards the Holy Mother.

In Christ,

James
 
Chero,

I pray the Angelus when I wake up and when I go to bed. I know full well that to love Christ is to love his Mother. Helpers here need not worry that I am some Hyper Calvinist, Matthew Henry reading redactive heretic, far from it. My questions simply are those concerning doctrine as regards the Holy Mother.

In Christ,

James
Hey, don’t diss Matthew Henry. His exegetical methods are, in many respects, very Catholic.

Edwin
 
And while I believe that the Orthodox reverence of mystery and tradition is a fine thing (and in many ways to be emulated), I cannot help but see in my minds eye shelter being sought in the storm that is this Christian life, with a sign sticking out saying “We’ll hang back and wait”. Indeed, maybe there is something to be said for such a faith, something more than my finite, Catholic leaning cerebrum can contemplate.
All we have is what God has revealed to us, through the Scriptures, Sacred Traditions, the Liturgy, Hymnography and the like. It is up to us to take that step and embrace the Spirit. There is no “shelter” in this world, as we are having to live in it (unless you become a Monastic of course, but that is a rigorous spiritual challenge in and of itself).

As someone else pointed out, we in the East venerate the Theotokos very highly. Perhaps you should start with the traditional Teachings on venerating her, before the Scholastic Age. My advice: Forget about the Immaculate Conception and all of that (for now). Focus on what the Ancient Fathers, East and West said about the Theotokos and see what was done. THEN, move forward in time and see where you are.

God be with you on your journey.
 
But what of Mariology?? Truly, what of it?! It just doesn’t seem to fit with Apostolic teaching. Visions? Crying Statues? What?! (Please do not take offense at my ignorance and confusion).
You don’t have to accept any of these.

Visions are what are known as ‘‘private’’ revelations and as such there is no requirement for you to believe them or accept them.

They are not Church teachings.

As for crying statues, well, you can be as skeptical as you like here, knock yourself out, because again the Catholic Church doesn’t require you to accept or believe such an event actually happened.

You are required to believe the Marian Dogmas of:

Divine Motherhood - proclaimed at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

Perpetual Virginity - clarified and expounded on by the Council of the Lateran, 649.

Immaculate Conception - Decreed by Pope Pius IX , Ineffabilis Deus, 1854.

The Assumption - Decreed by Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Munificentissimus Deus, 1950.

There is a movement in some parts of the Catholic world to have a fifth Dogma, that of Mary as Co-Redemptrix but this remains a controversial debate for some.

If you can accept the first four, as you’re required to as a Catholic, you’re good to go 😃

Hyperdulia is the name given to the veneration owed to Mary alone, as the Mother of God.

This can, in terms of practice, to an outsider looking in, almost seem like worship, but it’s important to remember that Catholics worship only God, regardless of how the practices of veneration of Mary may seem!

Sarah x 🙂
 
Chero,

I pray the Angelus when I wake up and when I go to bed. I know full well that to love Christ is to love his Mother. Helpers here need not worry that I am some Hyper Calvinist, Matthew Henry reading redactive heretic, far from it. My questions simply are those concerning doctrine as regards the Holy Mother.

In Christ,

James
If you allow me, even those who read this post, I’m setting up this apologetic booklet. I will talk about 100 different things, from moral issues, to the sacraments. There 15 things that I’m getting bible verses about the Virgin Mary. Unfortunately it’s in Spanish, I’m not finished yet tough. I will work on it and post it here at CAF. When I post it, I’ll send you a private message letting you know that it’s been posted.
 
From a personal standpoint, I wish that I had more Marian devotion rather than less.

The Mass, of course, is the primary Catholic worship, and it is a prayer essentially directed to the Father.

But it is nice to be able to call upon Jesus’ mother, the Theotokos, for prayer, and I should do it more often.
 
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