Cantor: Latin hymns for Easter Vigil

[aemcpa]

Yes, Latin is the Official Language of the Church. True.

And yes, Vatican II made it clear that Latin can be used in the OF Mass. False. Vatican II said that the vernacular “may” be used, but that the language of the Roman Rite is Latin.

But each bishop is given the authority, by the CHURCH, to determine how much Latin will be used in the Masses in his diocese.False. No permission is needed to celebrate the Roman Rite in its native language. Permission is needed to use the vernacular.

If the bishop allows/encourages the use of the vernacular in the Masses, then a parish priest is not wrong to have vernacular Masses.True.

So OP, like I said, you need to work with your PRIEST on this, and not run ahead of him and make plans and decisions about the Mass music. He may very well be on board with the use of a Latin hymn. Or he may not. At any rate, it’s HIS decision, not yours.She already stated this in her original post.

 

[ProVobis]

The Easter Vigil is a Mass in which many non-Catholics are present (to see their loved ones baptized and confirmed into the Church)–the priest may wish to keep everything in the vernacular for the sake of clarity.

Then you wouldn’t have a problem if the bishop had half or most of the vigil in Spanish, for example? And you’d be okay with all the music-clapping that goes along with it?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Then you wouldn’t have a problem if the bishop had half or most of the vigil in Spanish, for example? And you’d be okay with all the music-clapping that goes along with it?

Isn’t it pretty standard to have a bilingual Mass for the Easter Vigil and Holy Thursday where there is only one Mass? Why would it be a problem to include the entire congregation as much as possible?

The OP needs to learn about the nature of the Easter Vigil and what is included. Will she be chanting the Exsultet, for example? Leading all seven responsorial psalms? Leading the Litany of the Saints? She has a lot of preparation to do for the Vigil without trying to introduce new music to the parish.

 

[aemcpa]

The OP needs to learn about the nature of the Easter Vigil and what is included. Will she be chanting the Exsultet, for example? Leading all seven responsorial psalms? Leading the Litany of the Saints? She has a lot of preparation to do for the Vigil without trying to introduce new music to the parish.

If only my parish did all the readings and psalms…

 

[ProVobis]

Why would it be a problem to include the entire congregation as much as possible?

And couldn’t that be accomplished with Latin, which is for all Catholics?

 

[WetCatechumen]

youtube.com/watch?v=pVslvdBwjzU

I recommend this. It would be awesome for someone to sing the Paschal Troparion at a Roman church for Pascha.

 

[catholicmom2010]

From the GIRM

The Importance of Singing

1. The Christian faithful who come together as one in expectation of the Lord’s coming are instructed by the Apostle Paul **to sing together **Psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles (cf. Col 3:16). Singing is the sign of the heart’s joy (cf. Acts 2:46). Thus St. Augustine says rightly, “Singing is for one who loves,”[48] and there is also an ancient proverb: “Whoever sings well prays twice over.”

 

[ProVobis]

From the GIRM

The Importance of Singing

1. The Christian faithful who come together as one in expectation of the Lord’s coming are instructed by the Apostle Paul to sing together Psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles (cf. Col 3:16). Singing is the sign of the heart’s joy (cf. Acts 2:46). Thus St. Augustine says rightly, “Singing is for one who loves,”[48] and there is also an ancient proverb: “Whoever sings well prays twice over.”

For the record, It’s been pointed out that what St. Augustine actually said was this:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=10471901#post10471901

 

[dshix]

Did anybody READ the original post?

“I would have to, of course, discuss this with the pastor.”

She is trying to get ideas for what she should bring TO the pastor.

Haha, you’re right; Cat spent time writing a long post which wasn’t relevant just because she didn’t read the OP.

 

[ellzeena]

The Gloria is one of the highlights of the Easter Vigil.

seas1.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/alleluia-confitemini_domino-easter-vigil.pdf

Note that the chant starts on E; it is to be sung six times - twice starting on E (cantor then congregation), twice starting on F (cantor then congregation), and twice starting on G (cantor then congregation). Then follows the Psalm verse or verses, then a seventh Alleluia, also starting on G.

A cappella at the Easter Vigil?

It’s always a Capella. I wish I could find an accomplished accompanist (NOT a guitarist, can’t stand that at Mass). Thanks for the link!

 

[ellzeena]

youtube.com/watch?v=pVslvdBwjzU

I recommend this. It would be awesome for someone to sing the Paschal Troparion at a Roman church for Pascha.

When? Looking through the Missal and seeing no place, where?

 

[ellzeena]

Do you have permission from your Priest and/or coordinator of music ministry at your Parish to do so?

IMO, Easter just isn’t the time to be singing hyms or speaking in a language the majority of us don’t know a word of.

The “coordinator of music” is a rank amateur who plays a guitar (badly) and is in this placement purely because there is no professional (other than myself, and she was there before I was). As for not knowing Latin: it is the language of the Roman Catholic Church. Learn it. Just as I had to as a child. It is reverential, it is profoundly beautiful in a way no hymns found in this missal are beautiful, and it speaks the language of God imho. I use it often at Mass, the priest has never complained once, nor has the congregation.

 

[dshix]

As for not knowing Latin: it is the language of the Roman Catholic Church. Learn it. Just as I had to as a child. It is reverential, it is profoundly beautiful in a way no hymns found in this missal are beautiful, and it speaks the language of God imho. I use it often at Mass, the priest has never complained once, nor has the congregation.

Good for you! I’m glad there are good people trying to bring the Church’s liturgical language back.

 

[Mike30]

First, I think the OP needs to consult with the priest who will be offering the Easter Vigil. Whether or not Latin is used is HIS call.

aemcpa, the territorial authority (bishop and priests) determines what type of music will or will not be used in his Masses–that is the teaching of the Church. A cantor or music minister or any layman can’t take it upon themselves to “do” the music. This isn’t a concert.

From her posts, it appears that the OP has never experienced an Easter Vigil Mass (e.g., not being sure if the Gloria is used). Since the OP is asking about using Latin hymns, I’m assuming that Latin is something “different” in the Masses in her parish, which means that the parish is probably having OF Masses.

So it seems to me that the OP should sit down with the priest and carefully study the “Order” of the Easter Vigil in the OF. This is a three-hour event, not just another Mass. It needs to be well-planned by those involved.

The priest is the pastor of the parish, and he knows what is best for his “sheep.” He may love the idea of including a Latin hymn. OR…he may prefer not to use Latin.

The Easter Vigil is a Mass in which many non-Catholics are present (to see their loved ones baptized and confirmed into the Church)–the priest may wish to keep everything in the vernacular for the sake of clarity.

I am a convert to Catholicism, and my husband and I were received into the Church during the Easter Vigil in 2004. ** I’ll be blunt–I would have been upset if a lot of Latin had been used in the Easter Vigil. I needed very badly to understand everything that was happening that evening–Latin would have been strange and confusing to me, and I very possibly would have backed out of the Mass because it would have frightened me**. Please do not underestimate the tremendous emotions, positive and negative, that happen when an Evangelical Protestant converts to Catholicism. I don’t know that a cradle Catholic can truly understand this. Thankfully, the Church seems to understand it, and thankfully, the Church does encourage the use of vernacular in the Mass in spoken word and hymns.

As an ex-Evangelical Protestant, I (and my husband) found everything about the Catholic Church strange and different than what we were used to. We were in RCIA in a very contemporary parish, and that felt somewhat "comfortable to us, but the liturgy was still completely foreign. (We were attending Mass for two years before we entered RCIA, BTW.)

We were not interested in the practices of “ancient Catholicism”. (We still aren’t.) I know that on CAF, we hear from a lot of ex-Evangelical Protestants who LOVE ancient Catholicism and Latin and Gregorian chant and all the rest. But I honestly don’t think that’s the norm–many converts are drawn to the Catholic Church by the “modern” hymns and use of the vernacular.

Yes, Latin is the Official Language of the Church. And yes, Vatican II made it clear that Latin can be used in the OF Mass. But each bishop is given the authority, by the CHURCH, to determine how much Latin will be used in the Masses in his diocese. If the bishop allows/encourages the use of the vernacular in the Masses, then a parish priest is not wrong to have vernacular Masses. That’s according to Church teaching.

So OP, like I said, you need to work with your PRIEST on this, and not run ahead of him and make plans and decisions about the Mass music. He may very well be on board with the use of a Latin hymn. Or he may not. At any rate, it’s HIS decision, not yours.

I absolutely love it when this sort of ant-Latin prejudice makes its way onto the forum. Let me explain why. Several years ago I was raked over the coals for even considering or contemplating that such things could happen as you described in the bolded section. I was told in no unceratin terms that such feelings on my part were most uncharitable, rude and even, should I repeat it, giving scandal to converts who feel as you apparently do and that no convert could possibly feel that way towards the use of Latin.

Thanks for letting me know that I wasn’t wrong then.

So let me see if I have this right. You believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church. The Church founded by Saint Peter on the command of Jesus, You believe in God the Father Almighty, who created Heaven and Earth, believe in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived of the Holy Spirit who was crucufied, died and buried , who descended into Hell and rose on the third day. You believe in the the Holy Spirt, who proceeds from the Father and the Son and is worshiped and glorified, you believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins and the resurection of the body.

You believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived without sin and is known as the Immaculate Conception. You believe that the Holy Father, the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and when he speaks definitively on a matter of faith and morals that is binding on the Church then that pronouncement is infallible. You believe that during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that the bread and wine that are offered truly becomes the body, soul, blood and divinity of Jesus Christ and you believe in what the Church teaches.

Yet in spite of all of that, in spite of all that truth, had you heard Latin:bigyikes: being used during the Easter Vigil, the very language that the Mass itself is written in, the very language that sustained the Church for almost two thousand years, and in great part evangelized the world, then you would have been upset, maybe even terrified and very possibly might have left the Mass as a result, in effect abandoning all these things that you believe in.

All because of Latin.:bigyikes:

Sorry lady. You are right. I just don’t get it at all.

 

[ellzeena]

First, I think the OP needs to consult with the priest who will be offering the Easter Vigil. Whether or not Latin is used is HIS call.

aemcpa, the territorial authority (bishop and priests) determines what type of music will or will not be used in his Masses–that is the teaching of the Church. A cantor or music minister or any layman can’t take it upon themselves to “do” the music. This isn’t a concert.

From her posts, it appears that the OP has never experienced an Easter Vigil Mass (e.g., not being sure if the Gloria is used). Since the OP is asking about using Latin hymns, I’m assuming that Latin is something “different” in the Masses in her parish, which means that the parish is probably having OF Masses.

So it seems to me that the OP should sit down with the priest and carefully study the “Order” of the Easter Vigil in the OF. This is a three-hour event, not just another Mass. It needs to be well-planned by those involved.

The priest is the pastor of the parish, and he knows what is best for his “sheep.” He may love the idea of including a Latin hymn. OR…he may prefer not to use Latin.

The Easter Vigil is a Mass in which many non-Catholics are present (to see their loved ones baptized and confirmed into the Church)–the priest may wish to keep everything in the vernacular for the sake of clarity.

I am a convert to Catholicism, and my husband and I were received into the Church during the Easter Vigil in 2004. I’ll be blunt–I would have been upset if a lot of Latin had been used in the Easter Vigil. I needed very badly to understand everything that was happening that evening–Latin would have been strange and confusing to me, and I very possibly would have backed out of the Mass because it would have frightened me. Please do not underestimate the tremendous emotions, positive and negative, that happen when an Evangelical Protestant converts to Catholicism. I don’t know that a cradle Catholic can truly understand this. Thankfully, the Church seems to understand it, and thankfully, the Church does encourage the use of vernacular in the Mass in spoken word and hymns.

As an ex-Evangelical Protestant, I (and my husband) found everything about the Catholic Church strange and different than what we were used to. We were in RCIA in a very contemporary parish, and that felt somewhat "comfortable to us, but the liturgy was still completely foreign. (We were attending Mass for two years before we entered RCIA, BTW.)

We were not interested in the practices of “ancient Catholicism”. (We still aren’t.) I know that on CAF, we hear from a lot of ex-Evangelical Protestants who LOVE ancient Catholicism and Latin and Gregorian chant and all the rest. But I honestly don’t think that’s the norm–many converts are drawn to the Catholic Church by the “modern” hymns and use of the vernacular.

Yes, Latin is the Official Language of the Church. And yes, Vatican II made it clear that Latin can be used in the OF Mass. But each bishop is given the authority, by the CHURCH, to determine how much Latin will be used in the Masses in his diocese. If the bishop allows/encourages the use of the vernacular in the Masses, then a parish priest is not wrong to have vernacular Masses. That’s according to Church teaching.

So OP, like I said, you need to work with your PRIEST on this, and not run ahead of him and make plans and decisions about the Mass music. He may very well be on board with the use of a Latin hymn. Or he may not. At any rate, it’s HIS decision, not yours.

I have sung Easter Vigil Mass for years and years, I used to be the official “house” singer in two RC Churches and I actually did it last year in this church, but have no memory of it since it was at a time when I was new in grief (and I’m still suffering).

I do use Latin at some Masses and the Pastor has never complained. I will be seeing him on Thursday for another purpose and will discuss it with him. Regarding evangelical protestantism, been there, done that. I spent about ten years out of the RC Church. I understand the different emphasis on music and praise there than in RC Churches but that difference should not be as great as it seems. Music is a very important part of worship, as we are told in the OT and the NT. Singing well and with love is very important. To me, it’s offensive to have a rock band at Mass and singers who can’t even read music (which is the case with the other cantor who fell into the position of music director). Guitars and drums just don’t cut it for me, having been raised in the traditional Roman rite (Latin, incense, etc.) If the Holy Spirit intended to touch you that day (as it appears He did), it would have happened regardless of what language the music was in. After all, there are other RC churches where Spanish and Korean, et al, are spoken. Gregorian chant happens to be one of the most profound musical prayer there is. It is absolutely impossible to sit and hear it and not be moved toward love for Jesus, if one is His follower.