CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

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Seagull

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  • Yes. They should be able to enter The U.S.A
  • No. Don’t allow them to enter the U.S.A
  • Whatever The President of the U.S.A decides.
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The distance from Tegucigalpa, Honduras to Brownsville, TX, is 2600 km-- which is about 1600 miles.

If you’re a refugee, you claim asylum in the first border you cross. In order to get to the US from Honduras, you have to cross from Honduras into Guatemala, travel all the way through Guatemala, cross into Mexico, travel all the way through Mexico, and then cross into the US.

If I got in a car in Dallas, TX, and drove for about 1600 miles, I’d end up in Saskatoon, Canada. Or, if I started in Washington, DC, and drove for about 1600 miles, I’d end up in Denver, CO.

If I was fleeing from Dallas or DC, does it make sense to not stop running until I got to Saskatoon or Denver? Or do you think that there would be a safe place to claim asylum before I had to travel anywhere near that distance?

The next question is, what’s wrong in Honduras that people are running from it? Hint: a lot of it is corruption, a lot of it is gang violence, and a lot of the two are related.

Rather than arguing, “Let’s allow all these people to travel thousands of miles to the country of their choosing, because borders and laws and stuff are so old-fashioned and you’re a heartless racist if you think otherwise!”, people need to say, “How do we clean house in Honduras and take back the country from what it’s sunk into?”
 
It worries me - the number is around 10,000 -
The news says it’s 4,000. Not true.
And there’s been robbery and rape left - as they move along.
I watched Judge Jeannie last night - on FOX network.
Her opening comments were great.
It is getting serious.
The President - The Militarily - Democrats - The Wall - Voting. Etc.
 
midori said:
Rather than arguing, “Let’s allow all these people to travel thousands of miles to the country of their choosing, because borders and laws and stuff are so old-fashioned and you’re a heartless racist if you think otherwise!”, people need to say, “How do we clean house in Honduras and take back the country from what it’s sunk into?”
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Yes!! minimal charity says “let’s house these who are struggling.” True charity and love would want to reach out to heal a land that is driving people away like this. It is what is best for everyone. People can stay in their homes, in their land, in their culture and be prosperous. Those who cannot move because of physical or financial limitations aren’t “left to rot” as it were. When borders are closed it protect the home nation, and gives a sense of urgency to fix these problems for ALL PEOPLE living there, instead of running away.
 
I think “the wall” is a ridiculous idea, and I don’t consider the positions generally supported by the republican party on illegal immigrants already here to be feasible politics, but I am in favor of actually better policing the border. We can’t just allow caravans of migrants to march across the border.
 
Whatever happened to the last caravan that was headed towards the US some time ago?
 
Seagull said:
It worries me - the number is around 10,000 -
The news says it’s 4,000. Not true.
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Where are you getting this? The closest I can find putting the number at 10,000 is this Fox News article, but that gives a range from 5,000 - 10,000, which is a pretty massive range. Sure, it is higher than 4,000, but that number was reported days ago and doesn’t account for any size increases.
midori said:
If I was fleeing from Dallas or DC, does it make sense to not stop running until I got to Saskatoon or Denver? Or do you think that there would be a safe place to claim asylum before I had to travel anywhere near that distance?
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The problem is that you’re comparing the U.S. and Canada to Guatemala and Mexico. Guatemala, while doing better than Honduras, isn’t that much more wealthy or safe, and in fact the caravan’s current position along the Guatemalan and Mexican border might be more dangerous than Honduras. While Mexico is wealthier than either, it also isn’t that safe and may be even more dangerous than Honduras. The next stop is the U.S.

With that said, I’m not sure the U.S. can support them, since I haven’t read anything analyzing the impact it will have, particularly on those states at the Mexican border.
midori said:
people need to say, “How do we clean house in Honduras and take back the country from what it’s sunk into?”
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While that is ideal, it is also very long-term. The caravan is an immediate problem, and I doubt these people will turn around just because the U.S. says it will help Honduras.
 
I think it’s fair for us to be skeptical of admitting people who are breaking down fences and disobeying authorities on the way to come here.

Back when the colonies were preparing to declare their independence, Thomas Paine said that we should do it not just for ourselves, but for the entire world. He wanted us to be a beacon for the world to follow- he didn’t have it in his mind that everyone should flock here, but that all oppressed countries should fight for their independence. Where is this idea now? Why doesn’t anyone want to stand up to their corrupt or incompetent governments to make their countries better? Everyone wants to come to the United States, but no one wants to implement policies that would make their country much like our own.
 
I think people often forget about legal immigrants when talking about illegals.

I don’t want illegals. I want people who have shown they will follow our laws and customs by following them in their process to get here in the first place.

I’m not an expert on immigration law and I’m sure someone’s gonna come along and tell me all it’s flaws. But let’s work together to fix legal immigration. If we agree on a legal immigration process which is fair and just, then we’ll agree that illegal immigration is wrong and unjust. I really think it’s absolutely fundamental to work this out before we even talk about illegals.

But as always the focus is on the hot button issue. That’s what fires up the voters.
 
Speaking of ‘passing the buck’
Illegal immigrants cost the American taxpayers 135 billion - a year.

( 29 billion for medical care )

( 46 billion for education )

( California alone pays out 23 billion in taxes )
 
redbetta said:
Anyone else noticed that this caravan is coming conveniently right before the midterms?
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The people financing the event chose the time. This is an organized procession, with supplies, new cameras, etc.
 
Make sense, considering they don’t seem to be able to or have the desire to organize like this to take back their country.
 
What I do know is their situation improved once they crossed the Mexico border. Lot there and build a new life.

All my great grandparents came legally. My Grandparents proudly had the American flag in their living room. That and the texas flag. Not once did I ever see the Italian flag.
 
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ZMystiCat said:
While that is ideal, it is also very long-term. The caravan is an immediate problem, and I doubt these people will turn around just because the U.S. says it will help Honduras.
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Honduras’ first president was elected in 1824, when they were part of the Central American Federation, and they’ve been independent since 1838. They’re currently on their 12th Constitution. (1839, 1848, 1865, 1873, 1880, 1894, 1906, 1924, 1936, 1957, 1965, and 1982.)

They had 17 coups/uprisings in between 1920-1923 alone-- at the end of their first century of democracy.

They also had a coup in 1963, 1975, and 2009. There was talk of another uprising in 2017-- getting pretty close to the end of their second century of democracy.

Uprisings happen all the time. Governments topple all the time. It’s the normal ebb and flow of power. Usually, it’s easier-- like under a monarchy. You just change your dynasty, a la 2000 years’ worth of Imperial China, but everything else stays the same. Democracies are notoriously unstable forms of government, and are lucky to have a shelf life of 200 years… you need a good dose of virtuous leadership combined with a virtuous populace, plus a strong Constitution, in order for it to work for any length of time. And virtue has been in short supply in Central America since at least the 70’s…

It’s easy to topple a nation, but it’s difficult to build one.

What’s going on in Central America that is leading to such instability, that they have trouble keeping a Constitution in play for more than 20 years at a time without some sort of Crisis?
 
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