CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seagull
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unlike the British colonies in America, the Spanish colonies in the New World had very little practice at self government. Even Simon Bolivar acknowledged that.

EDIT: It is actually pretty rare for a colony to win independence and keep its act together.
 
Last edited:
midori said:
What’s going on in Central America that is leading to such instability, that they have trouble keeping a Constitution in play for more than 20 years at a time without some sort of Crisis?
Click to expand...
I’m not qualified to answer that, but I’m not sure how any of this is relevant to my comment about short-term and long-term issues and solutions. :confused:
 
I said, “They need to figure out what’s broken and they need to fix it.”

You said, “That’s nice, but reform takes a long time.”

And I point out that Honduras has been in turmoil-- and a thus a constant state of reform-- for the last 200 years.

None of this is new, but at the same time, it’s different from how it used to play out. So, they’ve had issues for 200 years… but why are things spilling into the global stage-- and becoming a crisis for a country 1600 miles away that has always been 1600 miles away throughout their entire existence-- now?

We don’t share a language or a culture or a history, and we haven’t been invited to reform their government or eradicate their internal corruption-- so why aren’t they turning to their neighbors who do share a history, culture, and language in common to help solve things? Or is it that their neighbors are also plagued by the exact same things that are keeping Honduras in turmoil?

It’s like giving a thirsty person a cup of water. You help the person who’s thirsty right now, but what about their thirstiness an hour from now? Or the hundred other thirsty people you don’t see? Whereas if you dig a well and install a pump, you take care of both their immediate and long-term needs, because you solved the big problem, not the immediate problem.

It’s useless to just say, “We have to help these specific individuals” but not do anything about the situation that has put those individuals in motion in the first place. You have to solve the underlying situation to help both the people we see and the people we don’t see— unless we’re going to start arguing that, “Well, you’ve had 200 years to figure it out, and you’ve done a rotten job of it… If you want to live in the US, let’s make Honduras a US Protectorate and we’ll administer your territory for you.” That would go over like a lead balloon, since the world spent most of the 19th and 20th centuries shedding colonialism… but if a country can’t keep itself running, and is hemorraghing its population because they’re fleeing from drugs, gangs, violence, crime, and corruption, when do people say, “OK, you’re not a real country-- you’re a territory that’s ruled by territorial warlords?” and step in to do something about it?
 
midori said:
I said, “They need to figure out what’s broken and they need to fix it.”

You said, “That’s nice, but reform takes a long time.”
Click to expand...
If you think I’m being flippant or taking an either/or approach, then you missed the point entirely. I didn’t say we shouldn’t talk about it. However, talking about a long-term solution doesn’t do us much good when it has no hope of addressing the immediate situation we find ourselves in. We need to discuss and act on the current situation while we look for more long-term solutions.
 
It’s not just Honduras. Economic migrants from the Middle East and Africa are spilling into Europe instead of neighboring countries with shared culture and language because those countries aren’t as generous. People only think about the here and now, so they leech off healthy countries instead of fighting to rebuild their own. They don’t care about what happens to their host nation or what will happen to future generations when the gravy train finally runs dry.
 
Cruciferi said:
I suppose there could be Military action and regime changes…
Click to expand...
Well then we’re just hoping that the new regime doesn’t turn on us and manages to address the country’s internal problems. I’m not really sure either is a reasonable assumption.
 
As usual, we are a county of short memories. I didn’t even vote since there was no option for considering the asylum option. I can almost guarantee you many of the instability problems in Latin America have roots directly or indirectly through 100 plus years of American intervention along the lines of the Monroe Doctrine. For those who aren’t aware, a Banana Republic is a real thing (not a clothing store)…and guess which county the term was coined for? Ding, ding if you came up with Honduras and the United Fruit Company. Honduras is the poster child for many of the things the US has done to promote its financial, political, and military interests. We own part of this issue.

So does everyone trying to obtain political asylum qualify, I’m sure not. However I encourage you to crack your history books or use a minimal effort to google these things. The talking heads on TV and politicians want you fired up about this for money or votes. There are much greater problems in our country.

You also should understand the trek these people are taking to get up here. If you think this “caravan” is some sort of bus ride to our boarder, think again. A good portion of the trip involves riding a freight train known as “the beast”. Many people lose body parts or their lives trying to get on the train. Many women are raped on the way. They will be taken advantage of in Mexico and stolen from. If you have a hard time believing their stories, keep in mind what they have done and what they have risked to even get to our boarder.
redbetta said:
People only think about the here and now, so they leech off healthy countries instead of fighting to rebuild their own. They don’t care about what happens to their host nation or what will happen to future generations when the gravy train finally runs dry.
Click to expand...
Seriously? See above.
 
Last edited:
Actually, let’s invade and annex every county straight down to Panama. Then we’ll build a modest wall and call it a day 🇺🇸
 
Why don’t illegal immigrants enter LEGAL ports of entries for TRUE asylum-seekers?
 
The caravan comprised mostly of young men shamelessly put women and children in the front as human shields.
 
The America-haters and kneeling NFL protesters are kind of wrong about America. Millions of legal and illegal immigrants CHOOSE to come to the UNITED STATES (far more than any country) because the United States is the opposite of evil, racist, and oppressive.
 
I always find polls difficult because almost always they leave out other options to consider. Americans-by and large-are imigrants from one time frame or another.
 
I won’t answer the poll, because I do not know the answer.

This is a very difficult problem for Europe too.

I just happen to be born “privileged”, meaning “with the right papers” to be able to move around “wealthier” countries if things aren’t going too well for me. And as such, sometimes think “hey! You are invading my space/work/customs/religion!/etc.”

But, I also sometimes stop to think, if I weren’t born “privileged”. …”what would I do if my children were hungry and I had no other options?”

Would I have been “smart enough” not to have had 4 kids if I could not afford it? I do not know, maybe culture would have prevented me from thinking this far.

Would I have been “smart enough” to be one of the few lucky “rich” in a third world country? I do not know, maybe dependant on possible studies I may have been able to afford? Or my willingness to “step” on people to get ahead of the others?

I doubt I can fully put myself in their position…being as I have no idea what hardships they have gone through, especially since I am giving an opinion from the comfort of my five seater couch in a temperature controlled living room in front of a laptop that may seem like a luxury to all these people but that almost everyone in my neighbourhood has and we are all taking for granted. Throw in a full fridge, money to buy more food, transport available at a drop of a hat, with the government to back me up in case things go horribly wrong.

Nope…I do not think I am qualified to give an opinion on what these people should or shouldn’t do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top