Cardinal Bertone: Homosexuality is the problem, not celibacy [CWN]
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NewEnglandPriest
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Sexual abuse of male teenagers has as much to do with homosexuality as sexual abuse of female teenagers has to do with heterosexuality.
When a male teacher has sexual contact with a female student we don’t decide to only have homosexual teachers for female students.
And on top of that, Fr. Kiesle who molested boys yet he also ended up marrying an adult woman. So, is he gay or straight? When it comes to sexual abuse, the normal lines of homosexual/heterosexual are useless.
When a male teacher has sexual contact with a female student we don’t decide to only have homosexual teachers for female students.
And on top of that, Fr. Kiesle who molested boys yet he also ended up marrying an adult woman. So, is he gay or straight? When it comes to sexual abuse, the normal lines of homosexual/heterosexual are useless.
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estesbob
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Which is self-evident to anyone who read the Jay report and looks at the % of males molested by preachers of denominatons that allow marriage. Our culture, with its willing accomplices in the MM, have went out of their way to try and ignore the homosexual component of the overwheming majority of the abuse that ocurred.
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buffalo
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Ahhh - let us see how the press plays this one.
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markeverett49
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Only a fool at the Vatican would defend the Church against the crisis of predator priests and their enablers by saying, “Wait, the REAL problem is all the gay priests we’ve ordained” as if ordaining all those priests was not the Church’s responsibility.
Furthermore, why is the Vatican not moving to laicize all gay priests and bishops on the grounds that they are a threat to children?
Furthermore, why is the Vatican not moving to laicize all gay priests and bishops on the grounds that they are a threat to children?
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irishpatrick
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Those in the Vatican making such claims are not fools if they speak the truth, even if you do not like that truth. The Vatican never said the Church is absolved of guilt.
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markeverett49
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I agree that something is the truth whether I like it or not. No argument there. But I notice that although there is a move to remove priests guilty of sexual abuse from ministry, there is no move to remove gay priests from ministry. Why is that? Perhaps, cynically, because the US presbyterate would be cut in half! But I think the reason is that there is no reason to believe that being gay is incompatible with ministry whereas being a child molestor is.
I am no apologist for homosexuals in the clergy. My point is that if THAT is the problem, why not laicize all the gay priests? Also, if THAT is the problem, who bears the responsibility if not bishops? Bertone talks as if the Vatican bears no responsibility for who is ordained in the Roman Catholic Church!
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irishpatrick
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First, the abuse peaked in 1980, and by the early to mid-90s it had come down to 1950s and lower levels. In 2009 there were a mere six credible allegations of abuse against a base of 70,000,000 Catholics. All that means the Church already responded to this crisis a long time ago, and my understanding is that work was done mainly in the seminaries.
Second, part of the goal today is to screen men much more carefully.
Third, I do not believe that anywhere near half the clergy are gay. I do believe probably 10%are gay. Those men remained celibate as they should.
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pollylodges
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Maybe it’s the overwhellming % of male alter boys serving in the Catholic Church that has something to do with that???
There are allowing alter girls though; perhaps when that number goes up and the % of male priests molesting alter girls goes up: THEN the RCC will finally make the simple jump to the truth of the matter: homosexuality and pedophilia are different.
I’ll ask this question again: If the problem in the Catholic Church is purley a homoesexual one - WHY aren’t there more cases of adult male gay priests’ involved with other Gay priests or adult gay Bishops, Cardinals, or Eucharistic ministers?
If you are wondering if I am saying that the RCC should change their postion on Homosexuality or the Homosexual lifestyle; I can assure you that’s not what I am proposing at all.
I remember a priest who spoke out on the matter in 2002 ( his name ecapes me at the moment), but his comment was pretty straight forward:
“They just don’t get it.”
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Soutane
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I know a few people who are homosexual that you would never suspect in a million years.Very few homosexuals are limp-wristed lisping men,and since they’re not branded with a scarlet letter(yet)how do you propose to identify them?An Inquisition?There are more than a few priests who suffer from same-sex attraction yet maintain their chastity and hebephiliac molestation of pubescent boys and young men are the furthest thing from their minds.They strive to be Holy priests.Men who suffer from same-sex attraction are now refused admission to the seminaries as per JP2.They are tested for this predeliction.The Lavender Mafia is being uprooted.
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irishpatrick
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First, imo, girls should NOT be ALTAR servers.
Second, the evidence is quite clear. Over 80% of the abuse cases were of minor males aged 12-17, which is not pedophilia. That sort of activity is beyond any doubt homosexual in nature. Straight men are not turned-on by other males…that is just a fact.
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pollylodges
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Is this study online?
I went to The Catholic league’s website and I did not see it.
There is just a research and essays page that goes to another page that has link to articles on the website.
Please post a link.
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JimG
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The problems with homosexual subculture in the seminaries was written about by Michael Rose in Goodgye Good Men. See Chapter 4.
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JimG
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It can be found here.
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pollylodges
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Yes it is.
I think at the very least, the law would agree with me.
-Not to mention over 90% percent of the poplulation.
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irishpatrick
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Agree with you regarding which point? “Yes” to what?
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wisdomseeker
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great Cardinal. it is about time someone begin to speak the Truth without fear.
the progressives try to diverge the sin of homosexuality as if celibacy is the evil one and not homosexuality. good for you Cardinal.
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tr1strev
Guest
Yes, thats right, they are and the VAST majority of sexual abuse in the church is homosexual in nature, not pedophilia and that is the main problem and the crux of the issue. The abuse is on young, teenage boys (homosexual), not small children and infants (pedophilia).
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prodigal-sun
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I think he is saying yes it is Paedophilia and that the law and 90% of the population agrees with him.
Of course the Law would not agree with him because the law is all about terminology and evidence. Also the pop would not agree if they could grasp the idea of what the to definitions are.
Peace!
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pollylodges
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No-you’re just towing the Catholic league’s line.
The ages in the study from what I’ve seen so far involving boys are between 11 and 17.
Maybe everyone here in this messageboard thinks so, but, I can assure you it’s not.
- And the study does not make any judgement on that. It does not say, at least from the 4 pages I’ve read through so far concerning the abuse AND the behavioral problems concerning priests that it is homosexuality. The study, from what I’ve seen so far only made a distinction between ttypes of sexual abuse and you yourselves just filled in the blanks.
As for “the VAST majority of sexual abuse in the church is homosexual in nature”:
Table 3.4.7 CLASSIFICATION OF FITNESS AND/OR
BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS
Classification of Problem Count % of all
responses
Sexual Relationship
Problems
Coercive Sex with Males 18 .8%
Coercive Sex with Females 10 .4%
That’s not overwhelming -You are just jumping to conclusions.
You have to totally ignore the law and mentally obfuscate basic Christian societal standards to come to the conclusions that people here are coming to.
I’m tired of arguing this. It’s just going to have to get worse before it gets better.
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