Cardinal Burke and Grand Master Festing defied wishes of Pope Francis by sacking Grand Chancellor

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The latest Tablet article quotes a Dec 12 letter from the Secretary of State to Matthew Festing that tends to undercut the “defiance” meme:
“As I expressed to you in my letter of 12 December 2016: ‘as far as the use and diffusion of methods and means contrary to the moral law, His Holiness has asked for dialogue as the way to deal with, and resolve, eventual problems. But he has never spoken of sending someone away!’”
This seems a response to a statement from Festing along the lines of, “By dismissing Boeselager, I thought I was acting consistent with the policy of the Holy Father.” In any case, it’s unclear how Grand Master Festing could defy on Dec 6, the date of the dismissal, a directive delivered on Dec 12.
 
The latest Tablet article quotes a Dec 12 letter from the Secretary of State to Matthew Festing that tends to undercut the “defiance” meme:This seems a response to a statement from Festing along the lines of, “By dismissing Boeselager, I thought I was acting consistent with the policy of the Holy Father.” In any case, it’s unclear how Grand Master Festing could defy on Dec 6, the date of the dismissal, a directive delivered on Dec 12.
Yeah… Dialogue and terminate. I get those two mixed up all the time too. I can see how he could make that mistake.
 
I too found the phrase “beyond the Pope’s authority” improper. They are a Catholic order.** Of course they are under the Pope’s authority**. .
Actually, they are not. They are a sovereign Nation, just like the Vatican. They have the same status in the UN as the Vatican does. The*Vatican and the Order exchange Ambassadors.

Yes, they are Catholic, but they are not a religious Order. They have their own set of laws, none of which are subject to the Pope.If the Pope sacked his financial advisor, what right would Italy have tocomplain?

catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2017/01/05/a-vatican-inquiry-into-the-order-of-malta-legally-speaking-this-makes-no-sense/
 
Yes, they are Catholic, but they are not a religious Order. They have their own set of laws, none of which are subject to the Pope.If the Pope sacked his financial advisor, what right would Italy have tocomplain?
They are a religious order as well and as such report to the Holy Father. I don’t think they are disputing that.

The Sovereign Order of Malta is one of the oldest institutions of Western and Christian civilisation. A lay religious order of the Catholic Church since 1113 and a subject of international law, the Sovereign Order of Malta has diplomatic relations with over 100 states and the European Union, and permanent observer status at the United Nations. It is neutral, impartial and apolitical.
orderofmalta.int/sovereign-order-of-malta/
 
Actually, they are not. They are a sovereign Nation, just like the Vatican. They have the same status in the UN as the Vatican does. The*Vatican and the Order exchange Ambassadors.

Yes, they are Catholic, but they are not a religious Order. They have their own set of laws, none of which are subject to the Pope.If the Pope sacked his financial advisor, what right would Italy have tocomplain?

catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2017/01/05/a-vatican-inquiry-into-the-order-of-malta-legally-speaking-this-makes-no-sense/
Brendan,it is not than I am particularly interested in the topic,but I read their Constitutional Charter because I knew very little about the Order and it called my attention it’s pecularity.
It is indeed an lay religious order and it’s purpose is specifically connected to the Holy Father.
It is interesting they have no territory ,I didn t know much about it really. Here is its purpose :

P a r. 1 — The purpose of the Order is the promotion of
the glory of God through the sanctification of
its members, service to the faith and to the Holy
F a t h e r, and assistance to one’s neighbour, in
a c c o rdance with its ancient traditions.

So,as usual,anything that sounds attractive as opinion may be published,but little in fact is known. And it is OK ,they will solve it hopefully.
 
One doesn’t have to be a Knight Grand Errant to share the anodyne aims and purposes quoted, though there is equally no reason why not.

Maybe the “story” is considered a “neat” way of bringing the names “Francis” and “Burke” into the “frame”. But is the writer, in reality, tilting at windmills?

Storms have even been known to erupt in teacups. One thing I treasure about our Church is it’s so serene. No news is good news!
 
Really, I see him being lionized as some kind of voice for true orthodoxy in the Church and the Pope is being consistently criticized.
Either way, it’s not about what it’s about.

Who is going to be set up as BOTH a better alternative to the Francis tendency in the eyes of those who “deplore” it AND a better alternative to the Burke tendency in the eyes of those who “deplore” that?

“Letters seen by” is curious. Whilst in depth reporting is vital, the real issue here is the affairs of the Order concerned and the precise conduct of its officers.

What a Pope thinks of how matters proceed from there is very secondary. It is not a Pope’s job to micro-manage such things, much as a lot of Catholics of all tendencies wish (for their own reasons) to portray him thus. Francis is fairly conversational in manner and that gets misused. (There is also the question of letters allegedly written in his name, but against his wishes. I bet that hapens an immense amount.)
 
Brendan,it is not than I am particularly interested in the topic,but I read their Constitutional Charter because I knew very little about the Order and it called my attention it’s pecularity.
It is indeed an lay religious order and it’s purpose is specifically connected to the Holy Father.
It is interesting they have no territory ,I didn t know much about it really. Here is its purpose :

P a r. 1 — The purpose of the Order is the promotion of
the glory of God through the sanctification of
its members, service to the faith and to the Holy
F a t h e r, and assistance to one’s neighbour, in
a c c o rdance with its ancient traditions.

.
Where does it say that it leadership roles are subject to the Holy See?
 
Where does it say that it leadership roles are subject to the Holy See?
The Holy See has final juristiction of the leadership roles of all religious orders. Normally it is not involved, however in this case it appears that some inside the order were justifying the firing by saying the Holy See wanted the removal, which was not the case.
 
I have a cousin who made a career out getting transferred. He worked for the state highway dept and had a bad reputation. He never really had to do much work because each region would pass him along as soon as they could.

I am seeing some similarities in this story. I see a transfer coming very soon.
 
Actually, they are not. They are a sovereign Nation, just like the Vatican. They have the same status in the UN as the Vatican does. The*Vatican and the Order exchange Ambassadors.

Yes, they are Catholic, but they are not a religious Order. They have their own set of laws, none of which are subject to the Pope.If the Pope sacked his financial advisor, what right would Italy have to complain?
What do you mean: “None of which are subject to the Pope”? Their Constitutional Charter and Code itself had to be approved by the Pope.

There is an exchange of ambassadors in view of the work that this organisation does. As the Constitutional Charter and Code says in Article 4, Paragraph 6:
The religious nature of the Order does not prejudice the exercise of sovereign prerogatives pertaining to the Order in so far as it is recognized by States as a subject of international law
That is bi-directional. The sovereign prerogatives pertaining to the Order do not prejudice the religious nature of the Order.

The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is not actually a sovereign nation. It is granted an effective sovereignty in the international community but that is different from being a sovereign nation. They have some few buildings which have been granted extraterritoriality. The situation of (name removed by moderator) is not comparable to that of the Holy See.

They are recognized – though not universally – as being a sovereign entity. But it is in a functional sense of the word and in order to accomplish their mission. Their mission is explicitly as a Catholic entity. Their “sovereignty” is not in the fullest sense of that word, as the Holy See made clear many years ago.

Article 4, paragraph 3 also states
*In the conduct of relations with the Apostolic See, the acquired rights, customs and privileges granted to the Order by the Supreme Pontiffs are in force unless expressly abrogated.
*
Moreover it is absolutely wrong to in any way imply that they are not a Religious Order. The Knights of Justice – that is to say the members of the first rank – are, in fact, vowed Religious according to the norms of Canon Law and thus they come under the supreme authority of the Pope to whom they must submit themselves.

In the 1950s, when there was a conflict between His Holiness Pope Pius XII and His Most Eminent Highness, the Grand Master of that era, the Pope threatened the Prince with excommunication to recall him to his filial devotion…because, of course, ultimately, the Prince/Grand Master must yield to the Pope in any point that actually touches upon the Religious Life, for the Holy Father’s authority is supreme in all things Catholic and above all those living a vowed life…and no one is above or beyond it. Clarifications were made subsequent to these events by the Holy See.

Who the (name removed by moderator) issues a passport or their coinage or stamps are indeed acts proper to the (name removed by moderator) and its sovereignty…but one must not pretend that the Religious who are part of the (name removed by moderator), or indeed the clerics who belong to the first rank of membership or are incardinated therein, are beyond the Pope’s reach and jurisdiction…they are not, as no Catholic is.

His Most Eminent Highness has made public the letter he wrote to the Holy Father for the 50th World Day of Peace. In his letter, a response to the Holy Father’s message for the World Day of Peace, he well expresses that abject submission to the Pope’s supreme authority that should mark one in vowed life:
In response to Your Holiness’ message I offer my total support and that of the entire Order of Malta which, even in a difficult and complex time, seeks to render its service in closely adhering to the teaching of the Church and the directions which come from the Successor to St Peter. /…/ The reference Your Holiness makes to the Sermon on the Mount and the Eight Beatitudes, which in the Order of St John are seen as symbolic of the eight-pointed cross, adopted by the founding fathers of the Hospital in Jerusalem, guides our trust in the benevolence and closeness of the Successor of St Peter to help us to cultivate and uphold the tradition which comes down to us through nine centuries of history and today finds new ways and new means to express its own convinced and shared spirituality.
His Most Eminent Highness, quite appropriately, concluded his letter: “I beg Your Holiness to accept the expression of my devotion, and that of the entire Order of Malta, with the assurance of my constant prayers, as well as those of the community of the Grand Magistry and of all of the Order.”

Personally, I have every confidence that the Vicar of Christ upon earth will indeed help them to sort out the situation in which they presently find themselves.
 
Where does it say that it leadership roles are subject to the Holy See?
I do not know, and it was mostly general knowledge interest why I read it,but you may find a PDF( I cannot paste the link ,sorry).
It does not follow a typical pattern if you ask,and I have all my children visiting so my time for reading is (fortunately:)) more limited when they are here.
You will probably find info there as I did as well.
Happy Magi’s day( I do not know how to say it in English…)
 
What do you mean: “None of which are subject to the Pope”? Their Constitutional Charter and Code itself had to be approved by the Pope.

There is an exchange of ambassadors in view of the work that this organisation does. As the Constitutional Charter and Code says in Article 4, Paragraph 6:
The religious nature of the Order does not prejudice the exercise of sovereign prerogatives pertaining to the Order in so far as it is recognized by States as a subject of international law
That is bi-directional. The sovereign prerogatives pertaining to the Order do not prejudice the religious nature of the Order.

The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is not actually a sovereign nation. It is granted an effective sovereignty in the international community but that is different from being a sovereign nation. They have some few buildings which have been granted extraterritoriality. The situation of (name removed by moderator) is not comparable to that of the Holy See.

They are recognized – though not universally – as being a sovereign institution. But it is in a functional sense of the word and in order to accomplish their mission. Their mission is explicitly as a Catholic entity. Their sovereignty is not in the fullest sense of that word, as the Holy See made clear many years ago.

Article 4, paragraph 3 also states
In the conduct of relations with the Apostolic See, the acquired rights, customs and privileges granted to the Order by the Supreme Pontiffs are in force unless expressly abrogated.

Moreover it is absolutely wrong to in any way imply that they are not a Religious Order. The Knights of Justice – that is to say the members of the first rank – are, in fact, vowed Religious according to the norms of Canon Law and thus they come under the supreme authority of the Pope to whom they must submit themselves.

In the 1950s, when there was a conflict between His Holiness Pope Pius XII and His Most Eminent Highness, the Grand Master of that era, the Pope threatened the Prince with excommunication to recall him to his filial devotion…because, of course, ultimately, the Prince/Grand Master must yield to the Pope in any point that actually touches upon the Religious Life, for the Holy Father’s authority is supreme in all things Catholic and above all those living a vowed life…and no one is above or beyond it. Clarifications were made subsequent to these events by the Holy See.

Who the (name removed by moderator) issues a passport or their coinage or stamps are indeed acts proper to the (name removed by moderator) and its sovereignty…but one must not pretend that the Religious who are part of the (name removed by moderator), or indeed the clerics who belong to the first rank of membership or are incardinated therein, are beyond the Pope’s reach and jurisdiction…they are not, as no Catholic is.

His Most Eminent Highness has made public the letter he wrote to the Holy Father for the 50th World Day of Peace, in which he well expresses that abject submission to the Pope’s supreme authority that should mark one in vowed life:
In response to Your Holiness’ message I offer my total support and that of the entire Order of Malta which, even in a difficult and complex time, seeks to render its service in closely adhering to the teaching of the Church and the directions which come from the Successor to St Peter. /…/ The reference Your Holiness makes to the Sermon on the Mount and the Eight Beatitudes, which in the Order of St John are seen as symbolic of the eight-pointed cross, adopted by the founding fathers of the Hospital in Jerusalem, guides our trust in the benevolence and closeness of the Successor of St Peter to help us to cultivate and uphold the tradition which comes down to us through nine centuries of history and today finds new ways and new means to express its own convinced and shared spirituality.
His Most Eminent Highness, quite appropriately, concluded his letter: “I beg Your Holiness to accept the expression of my devotion, and that of the entire Order of Malta, with the assurance of my constant prayers, as well as those of the community of the Grand Magistry and of all of the Order.”

Personally, I have every confidence that the Vicar of Christ upon earth will indeed help them to sort out the situation in which they presently find themselves.
Oh! I skipped reading your post,Father…
Thanks for sharing all you know, it is a pleasure to have you here,thank you for time also.
 
The Holy See has final juristiction of the leadership roles of all religious orders. Normally it is not involved, however in this case it appears that some inside the order were justifying the firing by saying the Holy See wanted the removal, which was not the case.
It is important to remember that the person in question was not simply removed from a position of leadership on the Grand Magistry…he was expelled from Religious Life. And that effectively brings us into a different category and certainly under that he had every right to appeal directly to the Vicar of Christ for an intervention.

As it is, it seems the Holy Father sees a need for a more far-reaching investigation. And he has empaneled a commission of exceptional talent and wisdom to carry this out.
 
A very Happy Epiphany to you, too. 🙂
In my wife’s native Dominican, Epiphany is a public holiday and it is officially (at least on the civil calendar) know as Los Reyes Magos… I imagine other countries have a similar convention, so I see where Gracie is coming from.
Happy Epiphany to all…though here in Canada our bishops have moved it to Sunday. Praise God as I am currently in a remote location far from any churches but should fly into Vancouver just in time to make a late evening Epiphany Mass.
 
The Holy See has final juristiction of the leadership roles of all religious orders. Normally it is not involved, however in this case it appears that some inside the order were justifying the firing by saying the Holy See wanted the removal, which was not the case.
Not per the Knight’s charter, they simply inform the Holy See. The Charter gives no authority to the Vatican to remove the Grand Master, nor anyone else. The Grand Master is appointed for life, and the Holy See has been
  • Remember, the Order is a Sovereign State with it’s own Constitution (*and who maintains a Militar of three Brigades)
 
It is important to remember that the person in question was not simply removed from a position of leadership on the Grand Magistry…he was expelled from Religious Life./ QUOTE]

My understanding that it is a suspension, not a removal. And that the suspension is due to his*unfaithfulness to his vow of obedience.
 
Not per the Knight’s charter, they simply inform the Holy See. The Charter gives no authority to the Vatican to remove the Grand Master, nor anyone else. The Grand Master is appointed for life, and the Holy See has been
  • Remember, the Order is a Sovereign State with it’s own Constitution (*and who maintains a Militar of three Brigades)
Orders and congregations have “Constitutions”, Or Rules.
But I do not know if the Order if Malta’s has differences with other ones that give its Constitution Charter a different treatmnet.This analysis,honestly,exceeds my " arena "

This referring to the approval of the Holy Father.

. 179, par.1 and 2 apply.
A rticle 190
Election of the Grand Master
or of the Lieutenant of the Grand Master
The election of the Grand Master or of the Lieu-
tenant of the Grand Master is by secret ballot, accord-
ing to the provisions of the Ord e r’s law.
A rticle 191
Consent of the Person Elected
The person elected to the office of Grand Master or
of Lieutenant of the Grand Master, having been notified
of his election, must signify his acceptance or refusal of
the office immediately.
A rticle 192
S e c recy Regarding the Election
Until the election of the Grand Master or the Lieu-
tenant of the Grand Master has been communicated to
the Holy Father, all who have participated in the Coun-
cil Complete of State are bound to maintain secre c y
re g a rding the result of the election and the pro c e e d i n g s
of the Council.

And :

CHAPTER I
THE GRAND MASTER
A rticle 134
D u t i e s
The Grand Master, as religious Superior and Sover-
eign, is to devote himself entirely to the growth of the
O rd e r’s works and serve as an example in religious obser-
vance to all members.
 
In my wife’s native Dominican, Epiphany is a public holiday and it is officially (at least on the civil calendar) know as Los Reyes Magos… I imagine other countries have a similar convention, so I see where Gracie is coming from.
Happy Epiphany to all…though here in Canada our bishops have moved it to Sunday. Praise God as I am currently in a remote location far from any churches but should fly into Vancouver just in time to make a late evening Epiphany Mass.
Yes! Reyes Magos exactly!🙂
Since your wife is from Dominican Republic do not forget to sing something from Juan Luis Guerra to her! Love his music…
Happy Epiphany and hope you make it to Vancouver in time.
Thanks for explaining my " Magi Day":o
 
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