Cardinal Burke says statement from Pope Francis defending Catholic teaching is ‘long overdue’

[Justin_Swanton]

From Lifesite.

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere. The Pope - or more precisely the Pope’s theological thinking - is at the heart of the storm.

 

[PaulinVA]

Wow.

I guess he could not be plainer about what is going on.

“The document lacks a solid foundation in the Sacred Scriptures and the Magisterium. In a matter on which the Church has a very rich and clear teaching, it gives the impression of inventing a totally new, what one Synod Father called ‘revolutionary’, teaching on marriage and the family. It invokes repeatedly and in a confused manner principles which are not defined, for example, the law of graduality.”

Burke lamented that the bishops’ interventions are not published, while the General Secretariat chose to publish the controversial relatio, which was intended as a merely provisional summary of the first week that is under review by the fathers this week.

“All of the information regarding the Synod is controlled by the General Secretariat of the Synod which clearly has favored from the beginning the positions expressed in the Relatio post disceptationem of yesterday morning,” he said.

 

[ringil]

I don’t like how the Cardinal is sowing discord here. The Cardinals and Bishops need to be presenting themselves as a unified body. In addition, it almost sounds like Burke has a personal problem with some of his brothers.

 

[PaulinVA]

I don’t like how the Cardinal is sowing discord here. The Cardinals and Bishops need to be presenting themselves as a unified body. In addition, it almost sounds like Burke has a personal problem with some of his brothers.

I don’t think he is sowing discord. He is publicly stating that there is politics afoot and that there are faithful Bishops countering the forces trying to liberalize the rules. I think that is extremely useful.

 

[dfp42]

I don’t think he is sowing discord. He is publicly stating that there is politics afoot and that there are faithful Bishops countering the forces trying to liberalize the rules. I think that is extremely useful.

I agree just because some disagrees or sees things differently doesn’t mean they are sowing discord. In order for things to be one in agreement there will always be a flip side to it. Our job is to pray for all this. What I don’t understand or never did was when did the catholic church turn into a democracy? give us barabbas keeps coming to my mind.

 

[ringil]

I don’t think he is sowing discord. He is publicly stating that there is politics afoot and that there are faithful Bishops countering the forces trying to liberalize the rules. I think that is extremely useful.

What if Francis is somewhat behind a push to move in a different direction with the groups concerned? Is he, then working against the faithful Bishops? Is he, then, faithless in these matters.

 

[dfp42]

What if Francis is somewhat behind a push to move in a different direction with the groups concerned? Is he, then working against the faithful Bishops? Is he, then, faithless in these matters.

I wish I knew how to answer this question maybe someone else can help explain better. From what I understand the pope can’t change certain things but he can change whatever he wants because he’s the pope? Also the Holy Spirit they say won’t let him make an error on things when it comes to faith and morals. It’s hard to understand Imo. It’s like saying Obama is elected president and even if the whole house disagrees with something he’s able to kinda do what he wants because the holy spirit is working through him to make the right choices so it can’t be wrong. (Even if it’s his own personal agenda) They say all we can do is trust and obey.

 

[PaulinVA]

What if Francis is somewhat behind a push to move in a different direction with the groups concerned? Is he, then working against the faithful Bishops? Is he, then, faithless in these matters.

Well, nothing is decided yet, so different people exploring ideas is not a problem, is it?

As to Francis being behind the liberal forces - I think they are emboldened by his openness. The Pope has stated he is a faithful son of the Church. I take him at his word.

 

[Seamus_L]

I feel a little better that Cardinal Burke and Archbishop Gadecki have spoken out, but there sure needs to be more !

 

[zz912]

I don’t like how the Cardinal is sowing discord here. The Cardinals and Bishops need to be presenting themselves as a unified body. In addition, it almost sounds like Burke has a personal problem with some of his brothers.

Why is the assumption made that Cardinal Burke is the one sowing discord?

And why should they present themselves as something they are not?

 

[ringil]

I wish I knew how to answer this question maybe someone else can help explain better. From what I understand the pope can’t change certain things but he can change whatever he wants because he’s the pope? Also the Holy Spirit they say won’t let him make an error on things when it comes to faith and morals. It’s hard to understand Imo. It’s like saying Obama is elected president and even if the whole house disagrees with something he’s able to kinda do what he wants because the holy spirit is working through him to make the right choices so it can’t be wrong. (Even if it’s his own personal agenda) They say all we can do is trust and obey.

I think this is one thing “big thing” that separates us from the Orthodox. They have a centuries-old history of a kind of democratic process among their leaders. We don’t have that.

I personally like a strong centralized Pope. It’ makes things less “messy”. We have enough “armchair Cardinals and Popes” as it is. Just look around.

It was never like this in the old days.

This over-incolvedment of the laity and “insistence of being heard” is the great commonality between the traditionalists and the ultra-liberals. I find that strange.

 

[ringil]

Why is the assumption made that Cardinal Burke is the one sowing discord?

And why should they present themselves as something they are not?

Because it creates dynamics like what we see going on here.

It fosters conspiracy theories (every heard of Siri?), disunity, and at the worst creates groups like the SSPX and the SSPV.

 

[dfp42]

I think this is one thing “big thing” that separates us from the Orthodox. They have a centuries-old history of a kind of democratic process among their leaders. We don’t have that.

I personally like a strong centralized Pope. It’ makes things less “messy”. We have enough “armchair Cardinals and Popes” as it is. Just look around.

It was never like this in the old days.

This over-incolvedment of the laity and “insistence of being heard” is the great commonality between the traditionalists and the ultra-liberals. I find that strange.

Yeah, I have been noticing lately that there seems to be an over involvement of the laity then there ever was before. Thanks to social media and the internet I guess. But I wonder why though. An example I seen at my local parish where the priest sent out his own opinion polls to the laity asking them what’s wrong with the parish and what do they want. Then the priest had a meeting with everyone. Since when did going to mass end up being what the people wanted. In the end not one said they wanted to worship God at mass but where more concerned with social programs and fun things to do in the church.

 

[RedFox0456]

I think the biggest issue I had with the document that was released is that it was way too ambiguous (as Burke pointed out). While it can be defended as being in line with Church teaching, it can far more easily be seen as a call to change the Church.

For instance, the document stated that homosexual relationships can never be on the same footing as heterosexual relationships (which would probably still offend the LGBT community), but then goes on to say how it can be loaded with good while not clarifying what exactly this means. Is the sexual aspect (eros) sinful, while the supportive, sacrificial aspect (agape) good? This is what I would assume it means, but since they chose to avoid making any reference to people doing anything sinful it is easy to see how it can be interpreted otherwise. One might read it and think, “Okay, so everything has some good. Just not as good as it could be. But there’s really nothing wrong with engaging in whatever behavior I want because it all has a nugget of goodness to it.”

Burke is absolutely right that this needs to be addressed.

 

[dfp42]

I think the biggest issue I had with the document that was released is that it was way too ambiguous (as Burke pointed out). While it can be defended as being in line with Church teaching, it can far more easily be seen as a call to change the Church.

For instance, the document stated that homosexual relationships can never be on the same footing as heterosexual relationships (which would probably still offend the LGBT community), but then goes on to say how it can be loaded with good while not clarifying what exactly this means. Is the sexual aspect (eros) sinful, while the supportive, sacrificial aspect (agape) good? This is what I would assume it means, but since they chose to avoid making any reference to people doing anything sinful it is easy to see how it can be interpreted otherwise. One might read it and think, “Okay, so everything has some good. Just not as good as it could be. But there’s really nothing wrong with engaging in whatever behavior I want because it all has a nugget of goodness to it.”

Burke is absolutely right that this needs to be addressed.

It’s already happening major news outlets and the media are all ready declaring that the church has changed its teaching and I can guarantee you there are many who get their catholic theology from cnn etc. the problem is unless this is clearified soon, I’m afraid many will run with this the wrong way and not even read what was said. This really needs to be cleared up. Hopefully by the end of the week, I’d hate to wait a whole year just to hear the church reaffirm what it always taught as truths from the beginning.

 

[gilliam]

If people get their Catholic theology from CNN or FoxNews or any source outside the Church, they are going to be wrong anyway. Nothing anyone can really do about it except tell them to go talk to a priest.

 

[seagal]

Fr. Robert Barron has excellent advice for those of us trying to make sense of the mid-term document: “Take a deep breath”.

In his opinion piece “Having patience for the sausage-making synod” He reminds us that there is a long, laborious process involved in coming up with a final summation of this synod, and lots of differing ideas and ideologies will be discussed. This is normal, but this may be the first time in history that we’re privy to the background stuff, which can be something less than friendly debate. Quoting from the article:

If I might quote the great Newman, who had a rather unsatisfying experience of official ecclesial life in Rome: “those who love the barque of Peter ought to stay out of the engine room!” This is a somewhat more refined version of “those who enjoy sausage ought never to watch how it is made.” The interim report on the Synod represents a very early stage of the sausage-making process and, unsurprisingly, it isn’t pretty.

We’re nowhere near the end product. We still have 2 more weeks of discussion, then a full year of further refinements, then the Ordinary Synod on the Family with more arguments and counter-arguments, until finally, several months to a year or so after that the Pope will sum up the entire process and make a definitive statement. That’s 2 years before everything shakes out. So it’s way to early to get our knickers in a knot.

In other words [sign]KEEP CALM AND CATHOLIC ON[/sign]

 

[McCall1981]

ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-the-truths-of-the-faith-have-not-changed/

Cardinal Burke: ‘The Truths of the Faith Have Not Changed’

The prefect of the Vatican’s highest court doesn’t mince words in discussing the Synod of Bishops on the family.

by EDWARD PENTIN 10/14/2014

– CNA
Cardinal Raymond Burke, the prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura (the Vatican’s highest court), is known for his straight talk and ardent orthodoxy to the Catholic faith.

A participant in the ongoing Extraordinary Synod of Bishops on the Family, Cardinal Burke, along with Cardinals Gerhard Müller, prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; Walter Brandmüller, president emeritus of the Pontifical Committee of Historical Sciences; Carlo Caffarra, archbishop of Bologna, Italy; and Velasio De Paolis, president emeritus of the Prefecture for Economic Affairs of the Holy See, wrote Remaining in the Truth of Christ: Marriage and Communion in the Catholic Church, affirming Church teaching on marriage.

He discussed the synod, marriage and the talk he presented to delegates in an Oct. 11 interview.

(Follow the link for the whole interview)

 

[ShanPO]

In other words [sign]KEEP CALM AND CATHOLIC ON[/sign]

Word to this.

The only thing we can do is pray and trust that the Holy Spirit will continue to guide our leaders, so why stress about the outcomes?

 

[Budeux]

Greetings… First it is best that we all realize that this first stage synod is only that! It is the beginning of discussion that was long overdue in the Church. The real implementation of any changes will not take place until the return Synod in 2016. Sending love and light…Budeux