Cardinal Canizares of Spain under fire for alleged "hate speech"

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One source stated:
MADRID (AP) — Prosecutors are investigating a Spanish archbishop for possible criminal hate speech because of remarks he made recently about the gay community.
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The Valencia’s provincial prosecutor’s office said Friday it was studying a recent speech made by Valencia Archbishop Antonio Canizares in which he said “powers such as the gay empire” promoted the rise of movements against the Christian family.
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The very same Cardinal Canizares is **also being charged with “hate speech” by leftist-supporters for perceived attacks against refugees. **The source states:
In their statement, the network said that Cañizares “is an ultra-conservative trying to subvert the constitutional order,” and accused him of nostalgia for “other times when immigrants, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals and women were subjected to the dictates of a society governed by the powers of the Catholic Church.
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As for the last one, I must say that this personally sounds like some sort of stereotypical evangelical idea against the Church, claiming that they’re some giant fascist organization! Insane! :eek:
 
Hatikvah said:
As for the last one, I must say that this personally sounds like some sort of stereotypical evangelical idea against the Church, claiming that they’re some giant fascist organization! Insane! :eek:
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Yes, it would be great to have a society governed by the Teachings of the Catholic Church. I’m not sure what he means by Powers. Like the power to offer the Mass and to ordain bishops maybe?
 
dmar198 said:
Yes, it would be great to have a society governed by the Teachings of the Catholic Church. I’m not sure what he means by Powers. Like the power to offer the Mass and to ordain bishops maybe?
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I think he means the political power of the Catholic Church.

Would you really want to live in a theocracy? Think about it…
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I think he means the political power of the Catholic Church.

Would you really want to live in a theocracy? Think about it…
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A theocracy is where the priests are also the governors, right? Because I think that’s bad. But I’ve seen some people say that a theocracy is where a religion’s Teachings are part of the law. If that is what you mean by theocracy, I would like to live in a Catholic one, because the Catholic Church’s teachings include things like religious liberty and civil rights. In fact, if there was any unjust law at all such a society, it would have to be removed, because Catholic teaching forbids all injustice. At least, that’s what I think. What do You think?
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I think he means the political power of the Catholic Church.

Would you really want to live in a theocracy? Think about it…
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No, I don’t want to live in a theocracy, but the Cardinal should have free speech.

This is the regressive left of the West at work again.
 
dmar198 said:
A theocracy is where the priests are also the governors, right? Because I think that’s bad. But I’ve seen some people say that a theocracy is where a religion’s Teachings are part of the law. If that is what you mean by theocracy, I would like to live in a Catholic one, because the Catholic Church’s teachings include things like religious liberty and civil rights. In fact, if there was any unjust law at all such a society, it would have to be removed, because Catholic teaching forbids all injustice. At least, that’s what I think. What do You think?
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A theocracy is where government and religious power are totally one. It could be any religion, and at this point in history, theocratic governments are mostly Muslim (Saudi Arabia, Iran) or Roman Catholic (the Vatican). There are no allowances for anything outside of religious law and the clergy who run the government.

If you are considering countries where Catholic teachings are prominent, but the country is not ruled by religious leaders, that is another form of government. But even then, there are quite a few difficulties. Think for instance of countries (like El Salvador) where they are jailing women who are having miscarriages as well as abortions. Religious liberty does not exist in a country where theocratic principles are in place. There is only one way to practice faith, and you are told what that is.

So, if you ask me what I think, I would rather live in a country where my own faith was respected. Even in England, where my faith tradition is the State religion, they offer other people the right to practice their different religion. That hasn’t always been the case, but thankfully it is now. And I would rather not have dictatorial clergy running the government, quite honestly.
 
Hatikvah said:
As for the last one, I must say that this personally sounds like some sort of stereotypical evangelical idea against the Church, claiming that they’re some giant fascist organization! Insane! :eek:
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While I would dispute the accusation, I think the last bit about “nostalgia for other times” is simply referring to the past when state churches truly were more powerful.
 
One of the many reasons why I’m totally Anti-Western and Pro-Russian.
 
Seamus_L said:
One of the many reasons why I’m totally Anti-Western and Pro-Russian.
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:whacky::rotfl::hypno:
Hatikvah said:
As for the last one, I must say that this personally sounds like some sort of stereotypical evangelical idea against the Church, claiming that they’re some giant fascist organization! Insane! :eek:
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That’s the typical hyperbolic language of the gay rights movement. They can’t take any sort of criticism, but at the same time, they feel they have the right to abuse and even slander anyone who remotely disagrees with them. Yuck. 😛
 
dmar198 said:
A theocracy is where the priests are also the governors, right? Because I think that’s bad. But I’ve seen some people say that a theocracy is where a religion’s Teachings are part of the law. If that is what you mean by theocracy, I would like to live in a Catholic one, because the Catholic Church’s teachings include things like religious liberty and civil rights. In fact, if there was any unjust law at all such a society, it would have to be removed, because Catholic teaching forbids all injustice. At least, that’s what I think. What do You think?
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Problem is no matter what form big government takes, it is too prone to corruption and scandal.

Even a Catholic-in-name government could be an institution that governs inappropriately.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
A theocracy is where government and religious power are totally one. It could be any religion, and at this point in history, theocratic governments are mostly Muslim (Saudi Arabia, Iran) or Roman Catholic (the Vatican). There are no allowances for anything outside of religious law and the clergy who run the government.
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I wouldn’t mind living within the Vatican.

Can you give me other examples of Christian theocracies in history that fit your definition?

Thanks.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Problem is no matter what form big government takes, it is too prone to corruption and scandal.
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In my understanding, the phrase Big Government refers to a government that practices centralization without subsidiarity. Subsidiarity is part of Catholic Social Teaching. Therefore, I don’t think a Catholic State could have a big government, at least not if my definition of big government is correct: a big government practices centralization without subsidiarity. Subsidiarity smallifies the government up by letting local people handle stuff, while centralization biggifies the government by taking over stuff that should be handled by local people. The Church says government should do subsidiarity, so a Catholic State would have to do that. At least, that’s what I think. What do You think?
Even a Catholic-in-name government could be an institution that governs inappropriately.
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I don’t want a government that’s Catholic-in-name-only. I want one that follows Catholic doctrine. I am quite confident that I will never find one, at least not on this side of heaven.
ComplineSanFran said:
A theocracy is where government and religious power are totally one. It could be any religion, and at this point in history, theocratic governments are mostly Muslim (Saudi Arabia, Iran) or Roman Catholic (the Vatican). … Religious liberty does not exist in a country where theocratic principles are in place.
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The Vatican allows for religious liberty. Does that mean it’s not a theocracy?
There are no allowances for anything outside of religious law and the clergy who run the government.
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The Church teaches that the state and the Church must each be independent and self-governing: “in their proper spheres, the political community and the Church are mutually independent and self-governing.” source Does that mean it is impossible to be a Catholic theocracy while following that part of Catholic doctrine?
If you are considering countries where Catholic teachings are prominent, but the country is not ruled by religious leaders, that is another form of government. But even then, there are quite a few difficulties. Think for instance of countries (like El Salvador) where they are jailing women who are having miscarriages as well as abortions.
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Putting women in jail for having a miscarriage sounds evil to me because the Church forbids punishing the innocent. (CSD 404) If that’s really what’s happening, then that country isn’t actually following Catholic doctrine when they do that, but they are rather going against it. I hope this is beginning to show you why I would like to live in a state where Catholic doctrines are part of the law and are actually carried out. Catholic doctrine forbids everything wrong that we can possibly think of, including things like forcing other people to follow one religion. If all the Church’s teachings were part of the law and carried out correctly, things would be perfect. Of course, that’s impossible though, because people are sinners and will never act perfectly until we reach heaven.

At least, that’s what I think. What do you think?
 
dmar198 said:
In my understanding, the phrase Big Government refers to a government that practices centralization without subsidiarity. Subsidiarity is part of Catholic Social Teaching. Therefore, I don’t think a Catholic State could have a big government, at least not if my definition of big government is correct: a big government practices centralization without subsidiarity. Subsidiarity smallifies the government up by letting local people handle stuff, while centralization biggifies the government by taking over stuff that should be handled by local people. The Church says government should do subsidiarity, so a Catholic State would have to do that. At least, that’s what I think. What do You think? I don’t want a government that’s Catholic-in-name-only. I want one that follows Catholic doctrine. I am quite confident that I will never find one, at least not on this side of heaven. The Vatican allows for religious liberty. Does that mean it’s not a theocracy? The Church teaches that the state and the Church must each be independent and self-governing: “in their proper spheres, the political community and the Church are mutually independent and self-governing.” source Does that mean it is impossible to be a Catholic theocracy while following that part of Catholic doctrine? Putting women in jail for having a miscarriage sounds evil to me because the Church forbids punishing the innocent. (CSD 404) If that’s really what’s happening, then that country isn’t actually following Catholic doctrine when they do that, but they are rather going against it. I hope this is beginning to show you why I would like to live in a state where Catholic doctrines are part of the law and are actually carried out. Catholic doctrine forbids everything wrong that we can possibly think of, including things like forcing other people to follow one religion. If all the Church’s teachings were part of the law and carried out correctly, things would be perfect. Of course, that’s impossible though, because people are sinners and will never act perfectly until we reach heaven.

At least, that’s what I think. What do you think?
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Theology and doctrine is all in the interpretation, isn’t it? One person, or government, carrying out what they believe is Catholic teachings can be very different from another. So it totally depends on who is in charge.

In the one Catholic theocracy we currently have, for instance, women are forbidden to vote. Or to wear anything but black.

I would say that it is quite similar in Saudi Arabia, except that they allowed women to vote last year. They wear black too, only covering a bit more of the body than Catholics.
 
RPRPsych said:
That’s the typical hyperbolic language of the gay rights movement. They can’t take any sort of criticism, but at the same time, they feel they have the right to abuse and even slander anyone who remotely disagrees with them. Yuck. 😛
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You can add perceived insults to Islam and anything anti-Western or anti-Christian. Brigitte Bardot had to pay a heavy fine for intimating that Muslims were overstepping their welcome in France. It’s always easier to blame and castigate the bearer of bad news. I have been in that position so many times, but I don’t care because I would rather be on the side of truth. It ALWAYS wins in the end!.
 
Seamus_L said:
One of the many reasons why I’m totally Anti-Western and Pro-Russian.
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Sometimes I get that Russki feeling. They got it right over there by not allowing the gay agenda a foot or even a toe in the doorway.
 
Brendan said:
I would not mind living at the Vatican in the least…
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What would be your function? All citizens must have a function in its running, or be a spouse. Most are clergy. Or Swiss Guard.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
What would be your function? All citizens must have a function in its running, or be a spouse. Most are clergy. Or Swiss Guard.
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Well, there’s always the famous one-liner by (now Saint) Pope John XXIII:

Interviewer: “How many people work at the Vatican?”
John XXIII: “About half of them.” 😃
 
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