Cardinal Canizares on reception

[At_Trent]

** It is granted under indult.** Any Bishop can stop CITH in his diocese. And the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has more pull than one might think

Look what Cardinal Ranjith did in Sri Lanka

If you genuinely dislike CITH, then don’t do it. If you genuinely dislike CITH, pray for the restoration of the discipline. Don’t insult the integrity, virtue, and holiness of those who are simply exercising a liberty given them by the Church.

Very first sentence of my first post in this thread I acknowledged it

I don’t belittle those who receive CITH, nor pretend I know if they believe in the Real Presence or not. If people want to get upset when those of us who think COTT is a better way, and they continue to be defensive despite high ranking clergy saying the same thing, then I don’t know what to tell them. Let them find prominent clergy arguing for CITH and present such.

As a Roman Catholic, I have a right to embrace the words and opinions of members of the Curia on the matter, and I do. I think returning to COTT while kneeling is a return to a tradition the Church had good reason to establish. There is a good chance they thought about it before they gave it their blessing.

 

[At_Trent]

** .REALLY? You’re upset because people are receiving the Host into, what…the wrong hand!!! I guess that speaks for itself. **

Missed that earlier.

Thing is, receiving in the left hand “would be a horror for the early Church” (paraphrasing Archbishop Schneider)
See, those who want to use the fact that early on CITH was the norm, don’t want to consider the rubrics involved. And in all my time here, I’ve yet to see a single post by a CITH proponent even acknowledging it.

So yea, really.

 

[TrueLight]

Well, I for one AM praying for a return to COTT.

I don’t question the reverence or the spirituality of the laity receiving CITH. If it the custom of the parish, then that is what it is. You receive as reverently as you can.

I thank the Lord that when I do receive communion for the first time, God willing it will be at a mass where CITH is not even an option.

 

[ProVobis]

Surely you’re not saying that the authority of the Church isn’t enough?

Again, some caution here. CITH is not universally allowed by the Vatican. In fact, two councils have condemned it. (I haven’t even heard the Vatican promote it.) It is your bishop (as well as pastor) that have given you the right to receive in that manner under strict conditions and those must be respected. Just saying.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Missed that earlier.

Thing is, receiving in the left hand “would be a horror for the early Church” (paraphrasing Archbishop Schneider)
See, those who want to use the fact that early on CITH was the norm, don’t want to consider the rubrics involved. And in all my time here, I’ve yet to see a single post by a CITH proponent even acknowledging it.

So yea, really.

But that’s just it: there are no “rubrics” that say that you must receive in the right hand…NONE. We have a quotation from an early saint and bishop that talks about the rubrics at that time, but now, there is none. There are areas of the world where the left hand is used for things that that particular culture finds dirty. I’m sure that has been so for millenia. Even there, however, I doubt there is a rubric extant to deal with it, just a cultural norm. In the West, there is none that I have ever seen or heard cited. Pius XII warned against the error of “antiquarianism,” the idea that we HAVE to do something the way the Church did it in its early days. Thus, those who insist “well, we HAVE to have CITH because that’s how they did it in the early Church” are just as mistaken as those who say “we CAN’T have CITH as it is inherently irreverent” (which is, incidentally, why “what the Church says” is so important). The Archbishop would then be incorrect to insist that we MUST receive in the right hand because the early Church did it. The rubrics for confession and reconcilliation from the early Church would horrify most modern Catholics, as it called for oral confession before the whole church and penances that could last months or years before readmission to Communion. Thank goodness we don’t do that. My point in discussing what the early Church did is NOT that we must or should do it the way that they did it, but rather to say that we at least cannot say that it is a bad or impious practice, because it was done by the Apostles, who looked upon the Face of Jesus, and their disciples, the Fathers (the Patristic period).

On the Feast of Corpus Christi, our parochial vicar took the time to discuss the modes of reception with us, affirming the right of choice given by the Church, AND exactly how to do it. He told us that those who rec. in the hand could use their dominant hand to convey the Host to their mouth, right handers or left handers, which leaves the other hand as where the priest or the EMHC place the Host. I don’t imagine and have never seen an other rubric or instruction. As far as I know, the Congregraion for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments is silent on that score.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Again, some caution here. CITH is not universally allowed by the Vatican. In fact, two councils have condemned it. (I haven’t even heard the Vatican promote it.) It is your bishop (as well as pastor) that have given you the right to receive in that manner under strict conditions and those must be respected. Just saying.

In the interests of clarity, however, some caution HERE. The indult for Communion in the hand is very nearly universal. More of the Church is permitted the option than isn’t, though I don’t know how many of the faithful avail themselves of the choice. I’ve never heard of the Vatican promoting it, either, but it is permitted in the Masses held in the Basilica and the Square, apart from the personal communicants to the Holy Father. And a council doesn’t trump a pope, esp. in matters of discipline, as I’m sure you know.

 

[ProVobis]

I thank the Lord that when I do receive communion for the first time, God willing it will be at a mass where CITH is not even an option.

Unless it’s an EF, good luck with that.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I was just trying to get JKirkLVNV’s goat though

And I missed this: if you were joking around or attempting to kid me, then I apologize for anything I said that might have given offense or rather, I apologize if you took offense. I believe quite passionately in attending to what the Church says, probably as a reaction AGAINST my Protestant upbringing, ie, “I know what the Bible says, but it takes the CHURCH to parse out what the Bible means,” etc. I think that anytime there is a question or a conflict, we may reliably turn to Holy Mother Church to explain, illuminate, legislate, impose, or relieve whatever needs answering, fixing, and solving. Further, I mean it when I say that I would as quickly come to the defence of anyone (supposing they wanted it!) whose rights were being violated by the other “side,” ie., told they could NOT kneel or could NOT receive on the tongue. I’m just as appalled at that kind of stuff as you would be. I’ve questioned priests at the doors of their churches when they’ve paraphrased the Mass or committed some irregularity (I probably shouldn’t have and I don’t really recommend it, but I was irritated!). So for me, it runs both ways. It’s what the Church says, what the Church permits, and what the Church forbids. That’s all I have to go on, the only reliable compass I know. And I actually think THAT’S pretty “traditional.”

 

[agnes_therese]

Again, some caution here. CITH is not universally allowed by the Vatican. In fact, two councils have condemned it. (I haven’t even heard the Vatican promote it.) It is your bishop (as well as pastor) that have given you the right to receive in that manner under strict conditions and those must be respected. Just saying.

Exactly. If the bishop & pastor have decided that, then we don’t need to go looking for reasons ‘besides “the Church says we can”.’
Just saying.

 

[TrueLight]

Unless it’s an EF, good luck with that.

Of course it’s an EF.

Hopefully it will be at an FSSP parish.

 

[archangel04]

Born as an abuse, continued in disobedience, now tolerated but frowned on.

That’s CITH

let’s look at the whole thing

Receiving while kneeling is the most reverent way, and everyone knows it whether they admit it of not.

Exactly!! This is especially true in our culture! But don’t forget Trent what we talked about in my “tired of the same old same old” you need to add your discalimer about the eastern churches.

This is an example of the (probably unintentional) insulting misinformation of some so-called “traditionalists.” The liturgical practices of the Eastern Churches in Communion with Rome also are reckoned as dating from Apostolic times and almost all of them, IIRC, have NEVER knelt. Are you accusing THEM of lacking in reverence?

See what I mean?

 

[archangel04]

Sorry Trent, but it’s a loosing battle, you just can’t win. I think the best we can do is shut our mouths, or in this case stop typing, and pray for the return of COTT for the Roman Church<-------------disclaimer Not because we do it or we preffer, but because it’s part of our ancient tradition and truly is one of more reverence when it comes to action and posture. And I ask this of everyone who wishes for this practice to return and perhaps even receive a little of our Catholic identitiy back.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Sorry Trent, but it’s a loosing battle, you just can’t win. I think the best we can do is shut our mouths, or in this case stop typing, and pray for the return of COTT for the Roman Church

What do you mean by this? COTT is a pefectfly valid way to receive , and if you are denied, you have the right to go as high up the hierarchy as you need to to get the situation remedied. NO ONE CAN BE DENIED COTT!!

<-------------disclaimer Not because we do it or we preffer,

but it is your preference. CITH is allowed in the US, and for some, THAT IS ALL THEY KNOW!!.

but because it’s part of our ancient tradition and truly is one of more reverence when it comes to action and posture.

This is the attitude I have a problem with. By saying "more" reverent, you are implying that any other way is less reverent. It is obvious to me that this is only your opinion, but to some who may be in these forums because they are looking for answers, or to learn more about the faith, statements such as this can be very damaging. Imagine that someone told you that something you were taught to do, by people whom you trusted, and is an allowable and readily practiced option where you grew up is wrong, and your belief in the “Real Presence” is called into question because you practice CITH. Wouldn’t that make you little defensive?

And I ask this of everyone who wishes for this practice to return and perhaps even receive a little of our Catholic identitiy back.

Again, no one is stopping you from receiving COTT. If you would prefer to kneel also, then I would suggest talking to your Pastor about making some reasonable accomodations for you and any others who may wish to receive this way. Who knows, maybe through pious actions instead of condemning words, we will see the return to the pious practices that some of us desire.

 

[At_Trent]

Surely you’re not saying that the authority of the Church isn’t enough?

No one does anything wrong by receiving CITH at this time.

But how come the authority of the Church wasn’t enough when Rome said no ? On whose authority did those people have a right to do as they pleased ?

 

[archangel04]

By saying "more" **reverent, you are implying that any other way is less reverent. It is obvious to me that this is only your opinion, but **to some who may be in these forums because they are looking for answers, or to learn more about the faith, statements such as this can be very damaging. Imagine that someone told you that something you were taught to do, by people whom you trusted, and is an allowable and readily practiced option where you grew up is wrong, and your belief in the “Real Presence” is called into question because you practice CITH. Wouldn’t that make you little defensive?
Again, no one is stopping you from receiving COTT. If you would prefer to kneel also, then I would suggest talking to your Pastor about making some reasonable accomodations for you and any others who may wish to receive this way. Who knows, maybe through pious actions instead of condemning words, we will see the return to the pious practices that some of us desire.

Hence why I said action and posture within our culture or civilization. I know in the East this is not the norm. I also know that one cannot read into another’s heart, this is why I said the action/posture tends to show more reverence in our culture. A bow is something we usually do to sacred images, altar, and other things. You are right it is only but my mere opinion.
I did ask my priest at my old parish, and he denied it, so be it. I no longer have to worry because I attend the EF.
In my opinion I wish receiving with intinction and kneeling same time would be the norm.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Hence why I said action and posture within our culture or civilization. I know in the East this is not the norm. I also know that one cannot read into another’s heart, this is why I said the action/posture tends to show more reverence in our culture. A bow is something we usually do to sacred images, altar, and other things. You are right it is only but my mere opinion.
I did ask my priest at my old parish, and he denied it, so be it. I no longer have to worry because I attend the EF.
In my opinion I wish receiving with intinction and kneeling same time would be the norm.

I could be on board with this!!
And now for the irony-
I was introduced to this form of reception when I was away from the Chruch and
worshipping in a “high church” Episcopal community!

 

[At_Trent]

But don’t forget Trent what we talked about in my “tired of the same old same old” you need to add your discalimer about the eastern churches.

Yea, but a discussion that pertains to Roman Catholicism in a Roman Catholicism forum ?
Now over in L&S, yes, but here ? Why ?

 

[archangel04]

I could be on board with this!!
And now for the irony-
I was introduced to this form of reception when I was away from the Chruch and
worshipping in a “high church” Episcopal community!

One good thing about some protestants, other then their love for Jesus in thier situation, is that that some have kept ancient traditions, and even some act more Catholic than we do.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

One good thing about some protestants, other then their love for Jesus in thier situation, is that that some have kept ancient traditions, and even some act more Catholic than we do.

You have got that right!!
This particular chruch, as far as litugy goes, was very “high church”!
I remember going to my first EF and thinking, “WOW, this is more like the Episcopal liturgy that the Catholic Mass I normally attend.”

 

[At_Trent]

But that’s just it: there are no “rubrics” that say that you must receive in the right hand…NONE. .

Well there certainly should be !