Cardinal Castrillon: SSPX Not in Schism

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Although, frankly, if SSPX says that a marraige was invalid, I’d be far more inclined to believe it than if it came from the mainstream American Church.
I wouldn’t because even if they happen to be right about it they have no power to issue a decree of nullity so people who get them from the SSPX and then remarry are committing a mortal sin.

Whereas the bishops (of the American Church) are the competent authority to grant such decrees.
 
Simple answer: John Paul II had a problem with traditional Catholicism, not with Cardinal Kasper’s modernist ideas.
If JPII had a “problem” with “traditional Catholicism”, then why did he urge the Bishops to allow more indult Masses?

More Catholic than the Pope…
 
Are the Oriental Orthodox also “a non Catholic cult?”

And the questions about the validity of their confessions and marriages are rapidly becoming moot. There is a steadily increasing number of S.S.P.X. adherents (clergy and laity) who have never been Roman Catholics in juridical communion with the Holy See. So they do not incur the canonical penalties, nor are they bound to the canonical forms of marriage, etc. Unless one also wishes to assert that this is true of the Oriental Orthodox, as above.
 
actually sspx is in schism. I have read several books on the subject. it is a fact. The last straw but by no means the first was the ordination of the aforementioned bishops. They are not in union with the church. yes it is possible to go to a mass by sspx and not go to hell but that is cutting a pretty thin hair. It is not recommended you attend a SSPX mass. That is the papal recommendation. I wouldn’t contridict that. It also means you attend a SSPX mass at your own risk. No offence to those who may get offended by that statement. I mean no personnel disrespect. But that is the current factual state of things. regardless of how we want to put a positive light on things.
It is the sad truth until the bishops of the SSPX reunite themselves to the Holy See.
 
For those who asked for a greater context for the quotations in Brian Mershon’s article, here are some pages that might be helpful. They’re mostly translations (with links to the originals, where available).

Castrillon Speaks: In the Pope’s Hands
Interview with Simone Ortolani (Italian), March 16, 2007

Die alte Messe steht fur die Vielfahlt des Guten
Die Tagespost (German), February 8, 2007 – no translation available

Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X: Information

Gazette of the Archdiocese of Salzburg (German), May 5, 2006

Rapprochement by Unhasty Stages
30 Days (Italian), February 1, 2006
 
Simple answer: John Paul II had a problem with traditional Catholicism, not with Cardinal Kasper’s modernist ideas.
http://fssp.org/objet/Audience.jpg

Respect must everywhere be shown for the feelings of all those who are attached to the Latin liturgical tradition, by a wide and generous application of the directives already issued some time ago by the Apostolic See, for the use of the Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962.
Pope John-Paul II, Motu Proprio “Ecclesia Dei”
2 July 1988

John Paul II Oct 1998 address.
I invite the bishops also, fraternally, to understand and have a renewed pastoral attention for the faithful attached to the Old Rite.

There are to be classes in dogmatic theology which are always to be based upon the written word of God along with sacred tradition, in which the students may learn to penetrate ever more profoundly the mysteries of salvation, with St. Thomas as their teacher in a special way.
Code of Canon Law, 1366, 2

The people of God need to see priests and deacons behave in a way that is full of reverence and dignity, able to help them to penetrate invisible things, without unnecessary words or explanations. In the Roman Missal of St Pius V, as in several eastern liturgies, there are very beautiful prayers, through which the priest expresses the deepest sense of humility and reverence before the Sacred Mysteries : … they reveal the very substance of the liturgy.
Pope John-Paul II, Address to the Congregation for Divine Worship
Castelgandolfo, 21 September 2001
 
Can you show where a Church document definitively says that the laity are in schism?
…to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre… Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.

Ecclesia Dei Afflicta Jul. 2, 1988
 
…to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre… Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.

Ecclesia Dei Afflicta Jul. 2, 1988
Can you define formal adherence and apply it to the laity of SSPX?
 
Can you define formal adherence and apply it to the laity of SSPX?
Not only is definition of terms an excellent point, paramedicgirl, but it’s also interesting to note that by canon law, in matters of discipline and penalty, the benefit of the doubt is always given to the accused. Given that Vatican II is the “enshrinement of ambiguity,” it’s virtually impossible to actually prove that anyone is acting contrary to it’s spirit.

Or even in accordance with it’s spirit, for that matter.
 
Can you define formal adherence and apply it to the laity of SSPX?
Should this be the attitude, generally, of Catholics, ie, “show me the exact letter of the law?” Isn’t it enough that we’re WARNED, by the competent authority?
 
Should this be the attitude, generally, of Catholics, ie, “show me the exact letter of the law?” Isn’t it enough that we’re WARNED, by the competent authority?
No, it’s not enough. Sometimes spelling out the exact letter of the law is required to live in the spirit of it.
 
Should this be the attitude, generally, of Catholics, ie, “show me the exact letter of the law?” Isn’t it enough that we’re WARNED, by the competent authority?
Seriously. If you can profess the fullness of the faith and receive the sacraments in a regular church, why would you mess around with a group who’s situation is at best “irregular?”

Let our prayer be similar to David’s and let us not allow our own personal tastes or our fear of our crosses compromise it:

Psalm 26:4 One thing I have asked of the Lord, this will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life.
 
No, it’s not enough. Sometimes spelling out the exact letter of the law is required to live in the spirit of it.
I’d disagree. This leads to a “toe to the line mentality” and usually that lead to a person finding themselves on the other side of the line after losing their balance. I seem to be on a foot kick as of late!😉
 
This reminds me of the classic chastity question: “How far can me and my girlfriend go before we cross the line?” It’s the wrong question. “How can we be most faithful?” is the right one 🙂
 
This reminds me of the classic chastity question: “How far can me and my girlfriend go before we cross the line?” It’s the wrong question. “How can we be most faithful?” is the right one 🙂
Yes, we don’t really need to know the answer. We just need to stay far away from the line.
 
I’d disagree. This leads to a “toe to the line mentality” and usually that lead to a person finding themselves on the other side of the line after losing their balance. I seem to be on a foot kick as of late!😉
I’m not suggesting scupulosity of the letter of the law in all things – Christ Himself condemned this! But when He was asked “Who is my neighbor” the answer wasn’t a discourse on the dangers of toeing the line and the dangers of vertigo: it was a clear definition of who a neighbor is.

Back to the question of “formal adherence,” it’s rather important to know what is meant by that term in order to follow it. Lacking a definition of what this means, there is no way of knowing how to concretely follow it. The point is that words have meaning and in this case clear meaning is desperately lacking.
 
Seriously. If you can profess the fullness of the faith and receive the sacraments in a regular church, why would you mess around with a group who’s situation is at best “irregular?”

Actually, I can see the seduction to do so. I don’t think that people are trying to do something harmful to their faith even though I think they are and I’m sure that many think they’re avoiding the far worse evil down the street. The problem is, if you have to pick between two illicits, why would you pick the one to which you are more attracted?
 
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bear06:
Actually, I can see the seduction to do so. I don’t think that people are trying to do something harmful to their faith even though I think they are and I’m sure that many think they’re avoiding the far worse evil down the street. The problem is, if you have to pick between two illicits, why would you pick the one to which you are more attracted?
Because, it appears to our lower appetite to be a greater cross to offer reparations and suffer through a less reverent liturgy than it is to be awed by a beautiful one. The former is difficult, the latter pleasing.
 
This reminds me of the classic chastity question: “How far can me and my girlfriend go before we cross the line?” It’s the wrong question. “How can we be most faithful?” is the right one 🙂
From Father John A. Hardon

Now my own opinion which I have been giving now for years. In my judgment, Catholics do fulfill their duty of assisting at Sunday Mass by attending in the Holy Sacrifice a church affiliated with those who are members with a schismatic group like the Lefebvres. But then I also must add the Catholics be sure at those seeing them attending these schismatic Masses are not scandalized into thinking that professed Roman Catholics have given up their fidelity to the Bishop of Rome.
 
Back to the question of “formal adherence,” it’s rather important to know what is meant by that term in order to follow it. Lacking a definition of what this means, there is no way of knowing how to concretely follow it. The point is that words have meaning and in this case clear meaning is desperately lacking.
I’d be all to happy to be given a clearer definition but we’ve been warned and it’s been recommended that we not attend the chapels. It’s really not that hard to understand that the SSPX should be avoided. Not sure there’s anything to quibble over here. Again, what we are seeing is not avoidance of the chapels but a “how far can we go before we cross the line”. If the Vatican set a neon line aglow, people would be more than likely to say that it was the wrong color.:whacky:
 
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