Cardinal Cupich says "discern truth" - WHAT?

[BlackFriar]

Can you give an example of a Saint who willfully committed a Mortal sin, while being devout to the Church and our Lord???

Do you really mean “chose to engage in objectively grave matter”?
(Nobody can tell the state of a soul before God).

Yes, quickly off the top of my head the desert fathers and holy hesychiasts who dwelt in the desert alone for years. Did they not wilfully miss weekly celebration of the Sabbath obligation formally codified in the C4 but customarily held to be seriously obligatory from the time of the Apostles?

 

[Rau]

Yes, quickly off the top of my head the desert fathers and holy hesychiasts who dwelt in the desert alone for years. Did they not wilfully miss weekly celebration of the Sabbath obligation formally codified in the C4 but customarily held to be seriously obligatory from the time of the Apostles?

Yep. They were very brazen that bunch.

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

Can you give an example of a Saint who willfully committed a Mortal sin, while being devout to the Church and our Lord???

Do you really mean “chose to engage in objectively grave matter”?
(Nobody can tell the state of a soul before God).

Yes, quickly off the top of my head the desert fathers and holy hesychiasts who dwelt in the desert alone for years. Did they not wilfully miss weekly celebration of the Sabbath obligation formally codified in the C4 but customarily held to be seriously obligatory from the time of the Apostles?

I don’t know who or what you are talking about.

You will have to be more specific about their willful neglect of canon law.

I’m not sure if this is an applicable comparison to a married Catholic Christian choosing to remarry outside the Church because the Church did not offer a decree of nulity.

Looking into the Hesychasm, it seems that in the Catholic Church, the practice has never been condemned.

I’d be interested to read something in relation to what you are referring to. Namely, their opposition to Jewish Law.

 

[BlackFriar]

Can you give an example of a Saint who willfully committed a Mortal sin, while being devout to the Church and our Lord???

don’t know who or what you are talking about.

If you quote the line you have difficulty with and why i will try to explain it to you.

You will have to be more specific about their willful neglect of canon law.

They broke a Commandment, keep holy the Sabbath day.
That is grave matter. Wilfully engaging in grave matter is mortally sinful. Yet many are saints and considered devout. Which is what you asked.

The point would seem to be that simply engaging in objectively grave matter, be it breaking a commandment be it 3rd, 4th or 5th, does not mean one cannot be devout, holy or sanctified.
.

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

don’t know who or what you are talking about.

If you quote the line you have difficulty with and why i will try to explain it to you.

You will have to be more specific about their willful neglect of canon law.

They broke a Commandment, keep holy the Sabbath day.
That is grave matter. Wilfully engaging in grave matter is mortally sinful. Yet many are saints and considered devout. Which is what you asked.
.

How did they not keep the Sabbath Day holy?

Are you talking about New Testament era?

 

[BlackFriar]

Please do some research on the terms used if you cannot understand the basics.

 

[rcwitness]

Please do some research on the terms used if you cannot understand the basics.

There is a large difference between being forced to choose different forms of observing the Old Laws concerning the Sabbath and choosing to go against what Jesus Taught!

According to Catholic Teaching, Jesus re-established Matrimony to a Sacramental level and charged any remarriage as being Adultery.

That is greatly different than comparing a sect of Christians who don’t observe Jewish customs regarding keeping the Sabbath Day holy!

Christians were no longer bound by the Jewish laws. Maybe if this group refused to participate in the Lord’s Supper and the Church approved, that would be a more accurate comparison.

 

[rcwitness]

Is this group you are referring to Christian?

If so, why are you using their supposed neglect to observe Jewish customs to compare to a woman living in an adulterous relationship (according to Catholic Teaching)?

 

[BlackFriar]

Cf. #390 & #392.

 

[irenaeus1]

I don’t believe this is a fair representation of what the Magisterium is teaching.

It may well be what young liberal priests imprudently advise.

It may well be what old liberal bishops from Malta imprudently advise.