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Burdensome1
Guest
Oh, good. I was worried about this. Now that I know there’s an iron fist, I’ll sleep better at night. So…
…when does the iron fist come out?
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…when does the iron fist come out?
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Burdensome1
Guest
You simply have a particular opinion about what the current situation is, and how upset and scared Catholics should be about it. Other people disagree, and think panic is appropriate. Why don’t you cut them some slack? Or, wouldn’t that be Christian?
You’re not a very effective web searcher, are you? I’ll help, and I’ll be totally serious. Except for an inferiority complex (generated by this board being worth more money) Steve Ray’s www.catholic-convert.com forum is ideologically similar to this one, but with fewer wackos dropping by to bait the Catholics (sometimes anonymity is an advantage).
12 years survivor of the Catholic internet says: Internet full of crazy people, is not a home.
You’ve been on the web too long and need to unplug, IMHO. It’s not an internet religion. It’s a real one. Hang out in a Church instead.
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pete_29
Guest
Give it a few days. On Wednesday I was depressed and when I’m depressed I’m angry. The more time passes, the better I feel and the happier I get. I’m practically giddy now.Indeed, my comments were directed at everyone, not one side or the other… But niether side appears to be in the mood for civility. Even here, where we are (in theroy) first and foremost Christians.
I decided to leave this forum yesterday and seek out a new home. It turns out that the right wing fringe here are a bunch of liberal progressives compared to other Catholic forums. I signed up for one and started browsing and I found most post were on subjects like “What’s the best survival freeze dried foods to stock up on for the coming war”…
And the left is just as bad.
I have no home…
I’m wondering if I’m still a Catholic…
Also, don’t discount the therapeutic value of having a place one can vent their frustrations. There are much worse things that we could be doing.
L
_L
Guest
I think people are confusing charity with a form of flattery.
Do we really think that Cardinal Dolan was happy that Obama was re-elected? I am sure he was very upset considering all of the trouble Obama is putting Catholics and the institutions of the Church. Catholics in America have historically dealt with a lot of prejudice and bias. Catholicism was viewed as an immigrant religion, not to be trusted, and there were constant fears among Protestants of the Pope trying to poison American Democracy and gain a foothold of power in The United States. This sort of paranoia about Catholics has only ended in the latter half of the 20th century, many people were critical of JFK because of his Catholicism. Such ideas were fueled by ignorance and bias, but even throughout all of those years, those who publicly opposed the Church and denounced the Church and bashed Catholics never ever tried to intrude on the internal function of the Church to the extent that Obama has. This is extremely alarming.
Anticatholic bigots of the past were coarse and denounced the Church with insulting cartoons in papers, slanderous speech, and so on. But these people never intruded on the Church in the way Obama has. Obama conducts his persecution with a smile, with good manners, and positive rhetoric. Does this somehow entitle him to be treated as if he has done no wrong, or to be viewed as less of an opponent to the Church because he doesn’t use inflammatory rhetoric like opponents of the Church in the past? I certainly don’t think so.
Inviting Obama to the Al Smith dinner was a mistake; what kind of message does this send to Catholic business owners who have to choose between their livelihood and adhering to their faith? It is relatively easy for the Church to threaten to close hospitals and so on as to not cooperate with evil that Obama’s legislative intrusions will force upon Catholic institutions. The core spiritual function of the Church still remains intact even if closing hospitals as a result is a tragedy. But for the average Catholic business owner, this is not easy, the average Catholic business owner is put in a terrible position, and considering they all cannot afford to bring lawsuits up to the supreme court, their only hope is for the institutional Church to stand firm and lead the charge for the sake of religious liberty of all Catholics and for people of all other faiths.
So back to my original point, there is a difference between charity and flattery and I think people are mixing them up here. Charity would be to disinvite Obama to the Al Smith dinner, to make him realize the gravity of burden his administration is placing on Catholics all across the country. It is charitable to Obama because it makes him think twice about enforcing these unjust laws on the Church; it is charitable also to lay Catholics especially those affected by these new laws from Obamacare because it shows solidarity and the Church’s undying commitment to see that the civil right to religious liberty is maintained so that in what is supposed to be the freest country in the world, Catholics and other religious don’t have to choose between following the law and following their faith and conscience.
This extends to not offering Obama congratulations on his re-election. I would not congratulate Obama, I don’t think it is charitable to do so, it is more flattery than charity. I mourn for the re-election of Obama, I mourn for the fact that millions of Americans voted for a President who never met an abortion he did not approve of, and in doing so voters have potentially put their souls in danger for making such a misguided choice. Obama doesn’t deserve congratulations, this isn’t an olympic running race, his election is not a personal accomplishment, it is the result of millions of people being duped and deceived into voting for a candidate who has made the greatest infringements on the rights of the Church (and religious liberty in general) in this country’s history, and a man who is the most pro abortion president in history. How can I congratulate someone for such a thing? I cannot, and I wish Cardinal Dolan did not either.
The Church’s enemies in this country aren’t playing nice anymore, in the past they were all bark and no bite, now they are no bark and all bite. I think it is about time all Catholics realize this, especially the Bishops so that they can lead the way in providing clear leadership.
Do we really think that Cardinal Dolan was happy that Obama was re-elected? I am sure he was very upset considering all of the trouble Obama is putting Catholics and the institutions of the Church. Catholics in America have historically dealt with a lot of prejudice and bias. Catholicism was viewed as an immigrant religion, not to be trusted, and there were constant fears among Protestants of the Pope trying to poison American Democracy and gain a foothold of power in The United States. This sort of paranoia about Catholics has only ended in the latter half of the 20th century, many people were critical of JFK because of his Catholicism. Such ideas were fueled by ignorance and bias, but even throughout all of those years, those who publicly opposed the Church and denounced the Church and bashed Catholics never ever tried to intrude on the internal function of the Church to the extent that Obama has. This is extremely alarming.
Anticatholic bigots of the past were coarse and denounced the Church with insulting cartoons in papers, slanderous speech, and so on. But these people never intruded on the Church in the way Obama has. Obama conducts his persecution with a smile, with good manners, and positive rhetoric. Does this somehow entitle him to be treated as if he has done no wrong, or to be viewed as less of an opponent to the Church because he doesn’t use inflammatory rhetoric like opponents of the Church in the past? I certainly don’t think so.
Inviting Obama to the Al Smith dinner was a mistake; what kind of message does this send to Catholic business owners who have to choose between their livelihood and adhering to their faith? It is relatively easy for the Church to threaten to close hospitals and so on as to not cooperate with evil that Obama’s legislative intrusions will force upon Catholic institutions. The core spiritual function of the Church still remains intact even if closing hospitals as a result is a tragedy. But for the average Catholic business owner, this is not easy, the average Catholic business owner is put in a terrible position, and considering they all cannot afford to bring lawsuits up to the supreme court, their only hope is for the institutional Church to stand firm and lead the charge for the sake of religious liberty of all Catholics and for people of all other faiths.
So back to my original point, there is a difference between charity and flattery and I think people are mixing them up here. Charity would be to disinvite Obama to the Al Smith dinner, to make him realize the gravity of burden his administration is placing on Catholics all across the country. It is charitable to Obama because it makes him think twice about enforcing these unjust laws on the Church; it is charitable also to lay Catholics especially those affected by these new laws from Obamacare because it shows solidarity and the Church’s undying commitment to see that the civil right to religious liberty is maintained so that in what is supposed to be the freest country in the world, Catholics and other religious don’t have to choose between following the law and following their faith and conscience.
This extends to not offering Obama congratulations on his re-election. I would not congratulate Obama, I don’t think it is charitable to do so, it is more flattery than charity. I mourn for the re-election of Obama, I mourn for the fact that millions of Americans voted for a President who never met an abortion he did not approve of, and in doing so voters have potentially put their souls in danger for making such a misguided choice. Obama doesn’t deserve congratulations, this isn’t an olympic running race, his election is not a personal accomplishment, it is the result of millions of people being duped and deceived into voting for a candidate who has made the greatest infringements on the rights of the Church (and religious liberty in general) in this country’s history, and a man who is the most pro abortion president in history. How can I congratulate someone for such a thing? I cannot, and I wish Cardinal Dolan did not either.
The Church’s enemies in this country aren’t playing nice anymore, in the past they were all bark and no bite, now they are no bark and all bite. I think it is about time all Catholics realize this, especially the Bishops so that they can lead the way in providing clear leadership.
J
JimG
Guest
Well, the Cardinal certainly won’t be withdrawing his lawsuit against the HHS mandate. That would not be charitable at all!
T
Tampa_Dave
Guest
I’m certainly not angry with the election results as of today (Saturday). I am very apathetic, however. I accept the fact that the majority of Americans have chosen to adapt the European social welfare state model. I disagree with the majority, but I am powerless to do anything about it in view of changing demographics. I choose apathy instead. I really don’t care much what happens when it comes to politics or the United States government since I cannot alter America’s course.Give it a few days. On Wednesday I was depressed and when I’m depressed I’m angry. The more time passes, the better I feel and the happier I get. I’m practically giddy now.
Also, don’t discount the therapeutic value of having a place one can vent their frustrations. There are much worse things that we could be doing.
M
MidnightSun12
Guest
Live for heaven.
F
frattura30
Guest
I’m very disappointed in Cardinal Dolan. He should not have sent anything to Obama. He should have been voicing the Church’s position on every airwave before the election. Did the apostle Peter congratulate Caesar? Did Simon from Cyrene congratulate the roman soldiers…hey great job guys? Did the Blessed Mother congratulate the Pharisees?
Another huge disappointment is the so-called Catholic voters who voted for Obama. How in God’s name could anyone go to Mass, receive the Eucharist and then vote for someone who is trying to destroy you. It absolutely amazes me. We are certainly living in the end-times.
Wake up!!
Another huge disappointment is the so-called Catholic voters who voted for Obama. How in God’s name could anyone go to Mass, receive the Eucharist and then vote for someone who is trying to destroy you. It absolutely amazes me. We are certainly living in the end-times.
Wake up!!
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
We had to memorize the 5 stages of grief, in order, for paramedic schoolGive it a few days. On Wednesday I was depressed and when I’m depressed I’m angry. The more time passes, the better I feel and the happier I get. I’m practically giddy now.
Also, don’t discount the therapeutic value of having a place one can vent their frustrations. There are much worse things that we could be doing.
*]denial
*]anger
*]bargaining
*]depression
*]acceptance
Giddy? That comes from visiting Colorado nowadays.
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Lucky7
Guest
Loving and praying for our enemies is very different than congratulating them.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
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frattura30
Guest
Without question we should always be forgiving. This should not equate going over to their camp and congratulating them. Cardinal Dolan is a very smart man, but he needs to realize he is in a very serious spiritual battle.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
We should realize our place in the hierarchy of the Church. Cardinal Dolan did the same thing that Pope Benedict did.
Christ said, ‘even the gates of hell shall prevail against His Church and that He would be with us until the consummation of the world.’
Christ taught:
Congratulating was doing good to them, and then one has to question if Obama is genuinely and intentionally persecuting Christians. Don’t we have teachings of people acting in invincible ignorance?
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pete_29
Guest
I have to be honest, I was very angry Wednesday. Compared to how I felt then, now, I 'm elated. I’m with you though. I don’t think I’ll ever vote again. Of course even two years is a long time, but right now I think America deserves to get a taste of what it thinks it wants. All I can do is have faith in God that it won’t be devastating and keep praying.
C
Candescent
Guest
QUOTE=L;9997857
I wouldn’t have offered Obama congratulations because it isn’t a personal accomplishment first of all, and in addition to this, it involved millions of people casting votes for a candidate who supports intrinsic evil.
I agree. Although the Cardinal knows the complexities of the situation, and I do not, I think that his congratulations to Obama appear to many to marginalize the Churches stands against Obama’s policies;especially to the many Americans who think that the Catholic Church is just over reacting to abortion and gay marriage.
I wouldn’t have offered Obama congratulations because it isn’t a personal accomplishment first of all, and in addition to this, it involved millions of people casting votes for a candidate who supports intrinsic evil.
I agree. Although the Cardinal knows the complexities of the situation, and I do not, I think that his congratulations to Obama appear to many to marginalize the Churches stands against Obama’s policies;especially to the many Americans who think that the Catholic Church is just over reacting to abortion and gay marriage.
M
MidnightSun12
Guest
Doing good to Obama would be to strike terror into his heart by showing him the risk that his own soul is in right now. Obama’s soul is in tremendous danger right now and every child that dies under his watch, every gay person’s soul that falls into hell due to his support for sodomy is going to increase the punishments that the devil has waiting for him.
Doing good to Obama would mean to make him tremble with fear to the point that he either renounces his office or diametrically changes his policies. Being luke-warm towards Obama’s actions is not love, it’s actually lacking in charity towards him as a person.
J
JimG
Guest
Well, it is true that Jesus said to love your enemies, and to pray for them. He didn’t say to vote for them.
F
frattura30
Guest
With all respect, Cardinal Dolan should have apologized to his flock. His obligations are first to his flock and not whether or not its important to do good to the alter of Obama. I understand how this all ends, but I can only image, how heartbroken Christ is by Obama’s assault on His Bride. I understand the turn the cheek, pray for your enemy…I get it…but at the same time, WHO IS standing up for US… standing up for the Faith, …standing up for the BRIDE???
O
onenow1
Guest
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