Cardinal Dolan Congratulates President Obama On Re-Election

[Lochias]

Isn’t this what the Cardinal and Pope did by sending messages of good will with specified Catholic intentions?

No doubt. But they’ve never back down on their messages either. They’re simply keeping the lines of communication open, 'cause that’s what we do as Christians, even while we fraternally and morally admonish those who are living in or abetting grave and terrible sin.

I’d be interested in seeing Christ’s instructions for us to take actions against others, other than treating them like publicans and tax collectors.

The Church has already told her flock, over and over and over, what to embrace and what to avoid. Half of the Catholics out there chose to ignore the instructions of the Church that Christ himself left to guide us. The rest of us already know what we have to do.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

How could you have voted for a man who promotes abortion?

I did not vote for Obama, but I did not vote for Romney either.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Lochias: *Jesus saw fit to overturn tables and strike out at the money-changers when it became necessary…I believe that, at some point, the Church will likely do the same. We can’t just sit in the pond and not make any waves. *

You are still ignoring Christ’s turning over the tables as if we weren’t supposed to learn how to imitate Christ from that, huh? So frustrating.

Lochias, I think you know I’m on board with your thinking. I, too, wonder when “some point” will be however.

I am not ignoring, and am not applying what Christ did as an instruction. Christ gave Himself over to be crucified, are we to do that as well?

 

[Lochias]

I am not ignoring, and am not applying what Christ did as an instruction. Christ gave Himself over to be crucified, are we to do that as well?

Yes, yes we are.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No doubt. But they’ve never back down on their messages either. They’re simply keeping the lines of communication open, 'cause that’s what we do as Christians, even while we fraternally and morally admonish those who are living in or abetting grave and terrible sin.

I agree with this and have been saying such.

The Church has already told her flock, over and over and over, what to embrace and what to avoid. Half of the Catholics out there chose to ignore the instructions of the Church that Christ himself left to guide us. The rest of us already know what we have to do.

And the Church gave other instructions that shouldn’t be twisted for partisan purposes.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes, yes we are.

You can’t apply one as literal and another as symbolic.

 

[Lochias]

And the Church gave other instructions that shouldn’t be twisted for partisan purposes.

That’s the thing…it has nothing to do with partisan purposes and everything to do with morality. There are non-negotiables that we, as Catholics, MUST see upheld with everything that we have and everything that we are, or else we’re twisting Truth to suit or own agendas or consciences.

 

[Lochias]

You can’t apply one as literal and another as symbolic.

One what? Can you restate in context, please?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That’s the thing…it has nothing to do with partisan purposes and everything to do with morality. There are non-negotiables that we, as Catholics, MUST see upheld with everything that we have and everything that we are, or else we’re twisting Truth to suit or own agendas or consciences.

Cardinal Ratzinger explained that one cannot support an intrinsic evil and then gave allowances of supporting a candidate as long as one did not support the intrinsic evil issues. That is used in the Faithful Citizenship Voter’s Guide, and repeated by other clergy.

How many out spoken Bishops were there this election? How many Bishops in the US? Percentages do not give credibility, but do add validity to either side of the debate.

It is wrong to pick and choose among men of the Church, which places them one against another.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

One what? Can you restate in context, please?

People are really digging deep to justify dropping charity towards other people. You’re not going to find support for that from Christ or the Church.

 

[iloveangels]

People are really digging deep to justify dropping charity towards other people. You’re not going to find support for that from Christ or the Church.

Well, again: We’ll see what your take on the HHS mandate is when it hits.

We may see some changes of policy here pretty quickly.

That we do some things is mandatory; however, exactly how we do some of these things, to what degree and to what end, is up to us. Nowhere is this going to be more evident than in what we do with some of the diocesan outreach programs about a year from now. Watch.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So I guess you’re saying Christ would send a congratulations to Obama?

Christ built a Church, and with all authority from above, chose and appointed men over that Church. He told them He would be with them until the consummation of the world.

The Cardinal and Pope sent congratulatory messages to the president.

 

[iloveangels]

Christ built a Church, and with all authority from above, chose and appointed men over that Church. He told them He would be with them until the consummation of the world.

The Cardinal and Pope sent congratulatory messages to the president.

Big deal. It’s a customary formality. They all do it.

 

[Lucky7]

I am not ignoring, and am not applying what Christ did as an instruction. Christ gave Himself over to be crucified, are we to do that as well?

Actually, yes we are to make sacrifices of ourselves. Of course, we don;t literally get crucified, but then again, I’m not sayng we should literally take a cord and knock tables over.

But yes, Christ was teaching us then too. We can argue over when that should be applied, but He was certainly instructing us…through all of his actions as well as His words.

 

[oneofmany]

We took the churches advice and voted for the lesser of 2 evils and voted for Romney. A non vote was a vote for Obama. Only those 2 men were going to be elected so we wanted the lesser of the 2 evils to be elected. For evil to win, good men do nothing. No candidate will ever be perfect and Romney would have been for religious freedom.

I think some believe if the church is pushed hard enough they will have to come around and accept things. That is what has been happening to society. Pushed for abortion and it won, pushed for gay marriage and it is winning, pushed for many sins and they are winning.

Obama believes he needs to push the church and it will change and why not when he sees Catholics around him doing it and society dong it.

 

[Lucky7]

That’s the thing…it has nothing to do with partisan purposes and everything to do with morality. There are non-negotiables that we, as Catholics, MUST see upheld with everything that we have and everything that we are, or else we’re twisting Truth to suit or own agendas or consciences.

Yeah, I’m still scratching my head over why the concerns raised in this thread are being attributed merely to “partisan politics”.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Actually, yes we are to make sacrifices of ourselves. Of course, we don;t literally get crucified, but then again, I’m not sayng we should literally take a cord and knock tables over.

But yes, Christ was teaching us then too. We can argue over when that should be applied, but He was certainly instructing us…through all of his actions as well as His words.

Problem is, He gave us an authoritative Church, with authoritative men chosen and appointed. We are to obey them.

As been pointed out, we can express our opinions, but there is no teaching that makes our opinion superior to theirs.

Heb 13:17 Obey your prelates and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls: that they may do this with joy and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.
Heb 13:18 Pray for us. For we trust we have a good conscience, being willing to behave ourselves well in all things.

We should follow their example and not criticize them for what they do.

 

[Lucky7]

I did not vote for Obama, but I did not vote for Romney either.

So…you voted for Obama. Until third parties actually have a real chance at winning, any vote that didn’t go for Romney went for Obama.

 

[Lucky7]

We should follow their example and not criticize them for what they do.

Always? Please cite Church teaching/canon law that states this. So far you’ve only cited Scripture.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So…you voted for Obama. Until third parties actually have a real chance at winning, any vote that didn’t go for Romney went for Obama.

No I didn’t. I am open to correction as soon as you produce a Church document that excludes third party candidates.