Cardinal Dolan Congratulates President Obama On Re-Election

[Prodigal_Son1]

Neither party represents God, but what makes the democrat party worse is abortion. I found the denial of God 3 times in the democrat platform pitiful. BHO, on his 3rd day in office lifted the ban on the Mexico City policy opening the floodgate of money to NGOs internationally. Obama supports infanticide. Despite their strong will to survive, these babies must be left to die. His daughters should not be punished with a baby!!! Barack Hussein Obama is indisputably the most anti-Christian president in U.S. history.

You know something, after reading these lovely accomplishments, maybe you’re right. Congratulations Barack, well done.

Neither party represents God.

God doesn’t judge man on a curve. Christ said lukewarm is not acceptable. So, the lesser of two evils doesn’t seem to fit.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’m not saying you can’t vote third party as I myself considered it. But when all is said and done I couldn’t go through with it because it meant I was actually giving a vote to Obama. This is not a new idea. Many folks feel this same way …EVEN Democrats.

So, no my comment was not partisan.

So, it’s not a Church teaching? It’s political?

See the Church states options, but if you don’t take the options according to partisan brothers and sisters, you did wrong. That’s not what the Church teaches.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The issue is what does each candidate support. One candidate tends to support Catholic ideals; the other does not. One is actually attacking Catholic ideals. This is an issue about who supports our Church, not whether one is Republican or one is Democrat. It could have been the opposite way around and I would have the same feelings (and I suspect that is how everyone else on this thread would feel too). I couldn’t care less about the parties. It;s gotten to the point where voting is such a joke anyway.

But you go on with how it’s all about partisan politics.

Christ supports His Church.

The Cardinal and Pope did right. They did what they did on behalf of the Church, and according to Christ’s teachings.

 

[frattura30]

I think not Frat, both Romney a Mormon, and Paul Ryan a Catholic said abortion was ok in certain circumstances, life of the mother and Rape. The case of Life of the mother truly a very hard call, it lies in the faith of mother and father. In the case of rape,have you ever noticed the child, in some cases will get aborted, {murdered} the rapist will do time, this certainly is not Justice ? I almost did not vote for Romney,but with much thought decided to as a case for the least of evils seemed right.

God Bless

We can tell a Christian by his or her fruits. Although, Romney a mormon there is no question he loves the Lord and has shown to be a good man with his family, faith and community.

Hands down, Obama is the greater evil, and possibly the Leopard that is mentioned in the book of Daniel. Obama has said this is no longer just a Christian nation and where are the Christians and their leaders when he says this? Whether we voted or not, our decisions have outcomes that will affect the innocent. You are acknowledging evil when you vote for a pro-choice candidate.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We can tell a Christian by his or her fruits. Although, Romney a mormon there is no question he loves the Lord and has shown to be a good man with his family, faith and community.

Hands down, Obama is the greater evil, and possibly the Leopard that is mentioned in the book of Daniel. Obama has said this is no longer just a Christian nation and where are the Christians and their leaders when he says this? Whether we voted or not, our decisions have outcomes that will affect the innocent. You are acknowledging evil when you vote for a pro-choice candidate.

‘Possibly’. Seems we would worry about a great deceiver being someone needing exposed and not someone who announces his beliefs.

Then we go to the teaching of the Church. No person can see the intent of another person’s heart. We cannot say who will go to hell and who won’t. Are those instructions blurred through politics?

Because the Church does not definitively state who a Catholic must vote for, it is a matter of informing one’s conscience according to Church teachings and voting according to conscience. One person cannot tell another person their conscience is wrong, especially if the Church doesn’t make such pronouncements.

 

[onenow1]

‘Possibly’. Seems we would worry about a great deceiver being someone needing exposed and not someone who announces his beliefs.

Then we go to the teaching of the Church. No person can see the intent of another person’s heart. We cannot say who will go to hell and who won’t. Are those instructions blurred through politics?.

Hi Son,maybe the words below will help the conversation a bit.

The Didache (did-akh-ay), is a Greek word meaning “teaching”, or “that which is taught”. It is the teaching of the twelve Apostles, and was thought to written between 65 and 80 A.D., and was highly regarded by the early Church Fathers. It gives interesting insights into the early practices of the Catholic Church. Remember, for several centuries there was no New Testament for Christians to use until the Council of Carthage in 397.

CHAPTER 2

2:1 But the second commandment of the teaching is this.

2:2 Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not corrupt youth; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use soothsaying; thou shalt not practise sorcery; thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shalt thou slay it when born; thou shalt not covet the goods of thy neighbour;

Have A Blessed Day

 

[frattura30]

Neither party represents God.

God doesn’t judge man on a curve. Christ said lukewarm is not acceptable. So, the lesser of two evils doesn’t seem to fit.

Im not sure how you translated my comment into God judging man on a curve and lukewarm is not acceptable.

A good example of lukewarm is to not vote.

 

[benjammin]

So why is this such a big deal. Dolan said he hoped that Obama would defend the weakest among us including the unborn. Some people are acting like Dolans driving around with a Obama 2012 bumper sticker on his car. Seriously, would you rather the Cardinal spit in his face and tell him he’s going to hell? I think the Cardinal was acting out of charity. I think the Cardinal hopes that charity might lead to a conversion.

To be honest, I see a lot of people on here who are kind of like pharisees. They would rather stone Obama and tell him he’s a sinner, while Christ would probably sit down with him, talk with him, and give him his message. Sometimes its hard to accept, but we need to be charitable or else we will lose members faster than we already are. Charity does not mean we are getting soft or changing our message, but simply being friendly to try and win over people. How is that wrong? I think the Cardinal should be careful, but I see nothing wrong in this instance. He brought up life issues and i’m sure he will fight the HHS.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Im not sure how you translated my comment into God judging man on a curve and lukewarm is not acceptable.

A good example of lukewarm is to not vote.

Lesser of two evils = lukewarm. Lesser of two evils is based on a curve.

I did vote for a solid pro life candidate.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So why is this such a big deal. Dolan said he hoped that Obama would defend the weakest among us including the unborn. Some people are acting like Dolans driving around with a Obama 2012 bumper sticker on his car. Seriously, would you rather the Cardinal spit in his face and tell him he’s going to hell? I think the Cardinal was acting out of charity. I think the Cardinal hopes that charity might lead to a conversion.

To be honest, I see a lot of people on here who are kind of like pharisees. They would rather stone Obama and tell him he’s a sinner, while Christ would probably sit down with him, talk with him, and give him his message. Sometimes its hard to accept, but we need to be charitable or else we will lose members faster than we already are. Charity does not mean we are getting soft or changing our message, but simply being friendly to try and win over people. How is that wrong? I think the Cardinal should be careful, but I see nothing wrong in this instance. He brought up life issues and i’m sure he will fight the HHS.

 

[Lucky7]

So, it’s not a Church teaching? It’s political?

See the Church states options, but if you don’t take the options according to partisan brothers and sisters, you did wrong. That’s not what the Church teaches.

I have no idea what the heck you are talking about here.

 

[Lucky7]

Read back through the thread. It’s been posted numerous times. The discussion has gone more than circular in my opinion.

I pray I don’t leave charity behind in any occasion, because I believe it is against the teaching of Christ.

I use scriptures a lot. They caused me to convert in 1985, and have confirmed all teachings of the Church to me.

No, you’ve only quoted scripture…that is the Protestant way of arguing.

You posted:

We should follow their example and not criticize them for what they do.

I would still like to see actual Church teaching/Canon Law about the obligation to always follow the example/actions of our priests, bishops, etc.

So far the only support I have found was the Canon Law I reiterated in this thread which tends to lean towards the opposite view/teaching.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have no idea what the heck you are talking about here.

I saw you say, a vote for a third party candidate was giving a vote to Obama. I noticed you changed it in your last post to say one could vote for a third party candidate, because I requested the Church teaching that states such.

We have documents that state one can even vote for a pro choice politician, as long as the voter is not voting to precisely support pro choice. Catholics are setting those instructions aside and going at each other with ad hominem worded false insinuations. It’s as if the need to strike out means anyone that didn’t vote the way they wanted everyone to vote; to even criticizing clergy for acting as leaders themselves.

From the activity I’ve witnessed, I will probably never vote again. I am convinced, there is no spirituality in politics. I was going to skip voting this election but let others talk me into the ‘obligation’, that now seems to have been for the purpose of hopefully making me vote against my conscience.

 

[Lucky7]

I saw you say, a vote for a third party candidate was giving a vote to Obama. I noticed you changed it in your last post to say one could vote for a third party candidate, because I requested the Church teaching that states such.

**I think you may have misuderstood me then? I didn’t change what I said. I just thought you were looking for Church teaching that says a vote for third party meant a vote for Obama. There is none. I never said there was one or was trying to imply that there was one.

My point was merely that when we vote third party (due to the reality of our 2 party system) it is effectively a vote for the incumbent (in this case that was Obama). And like I said, I almost voted third party as well, but I knew that I wouldn’t help keep Obama out of office by doing that. My best bet was to give Romney as many votes as possible. I was focusing on the political realities here.

Having said that, I still do not think my concerns in this thread are solely political (and maybe I’m just not explaining myself well enough).**

We have documents that state one can even vote for a pro choice politician, as long as the voter is not voting to precisely support pro choice. Catholics are setting those instructions aside and going at each other with ad hominem worded false insinuations. It’s as if the need to strike out means anyone that didn’t vote the way they wanted everyone to vote; to even criticizing clergy for acting as leaders themselves.

I hear you. I don’t judge anyone for their voting choices. I hope that is not how I came across with you. I amy disagree with your choice, but I was really just stating a fact about voting third party. I wish things were different in our political/voting system.

From the activity I’ve witnessed, I will probably never vote again. I am convinced, there is no spirituality in politics. I was going to skip voting this election but let others talk me into the ‘obligation’, that now seems to have been for the purpose of hopefully making me vote against my conscience.

I think you and I agree here. For the last two presidential elections, I have come so close to not voting. Then I feel guilty about not voting and I vote…Republican. That’s just the way I lean, but I recognize there are a lot of Catholic ideals in the Democrat platform as well. It is very hard to vote Catholic if you know what I mean? I think I said it earlier in this thread (but maybe it was another), but I think it’s getting to the point when this is all such a joke.

Wrt Cardinal Dolan, I usually really like him and agree with him. I’m just not on board with this particular choice of words. I think the HHS mandate is the reason why I am more anti-Obama than ever before. However, if Bush was in office and this happened, I would feel the same way if the Cardinal used the same choice of words with him. I don’t know if that is making sense.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

.

Cardinal Dolan was a part of a lawsuit filed against this administration, prior to the charities dinner. As far as I know it’s still pending.

Could congratulations, with knowledge my lawsuit is still pending, be considered flogging the money changers? J/K before anyone tries to response as if it’s serious.

I think I understand your comments about Bush. He opened my eyes to a lack of action. He was in office 8 years, 2 with republican controlled house and senate, and 7 republican appointed supreme court justices, and 2 appointed by democrats. I only mention that so you have insight to my apathy towards anything being done. The wars are another story as well.

I am at the point in my life where I think it best to place all trust in God, pray for His will, and believe it is so. Men will let us down, and just as we cannot see the intent of another person’s heart, we can’t see good from bad politicians from what they show us with negative political ads. I wonder what the election office would think if I went down to change my party affiliation to ‘apolitical’?

 

[frattura30]

Lesser of two evils = lukewarm. Lesser of two evils is based on a curve.

I did vote for a solid pro life candidate.

I’m glad to read you voted for a pro-life candidate. I think whats frightening about this term lukewarm is that many Christians/Catholics fall under this. Theres nothing wrong with being rich but when you feel you do not need God. Thats what lukewarm means. Clearly they have not robbed a bank or the like, but they have become complacent in their spirit relationships. Lukewarm.

Some Will Depart from the Faith
1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that** in the last times** some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.

 

[frattura30]

Lesser of two evils = lukewarm. Lesser of two evils is based on a curve.

I did vote for a solid pro life candidate.

I’m glad to read you voted for a pro-life candidate. I think whats frightening about this term lukewarm is that many Christians/Catholics fall under this. Theres nothing wrong with being rich but when you feel you do not need God. Thats what lukewarm means. Clearly they have not robbed a bank or the like, but they have become complacent in their spirit relationships. Lukewarm.

Some Will Depart from the Faith
1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that** in the last times** some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.

 

[mentalist]

I wonder if perhaps we on this forum should heed this line. I’ve been ashamed to be a part of this forum the last few days. The anger, resentment and meanness is palpable…

God bless

Many counted on catholics having christian integrity and were shocked instead.

 

[mentalist]

So, it’s not a Church teaching? It’s political?

See the Church states options, but if you don’t take the options according to partisan brothers and sisters, you did wrong. That’s not what the Church teaches.

Church teaching is pretty one sided on the issue of abortion. IF you are a Catholic you have no choice in the matter. If you are going to vote then the person MUST go through the filter of church teachings first before considered. If the first element of the filter says “Abortion is not allowed” and the person considered fails then you can not go further in considering that individual. Church teaching first all other things last.

 

[mentalist]

You realize the nominee is an important decision.

During the nomination process this past election, everyone exercised their ‘right’ to pick and choose with other issues in the consideration. Once they chose it became, ‘a Catholic must support our candidate.’

Republicans know where their weaknesses are, but refuse to address them for the ‘important issues’. If the important issue is truly above all other issues, then maybe the Republicans should concede on the other issues for the right to life issue? That’s no different than what’s preached after the nomination.

You are totally wrong. The Democrats see people as stupid cattle that are takers and want no responsibility for there lives. Republicans want to make sure everyone has equal oppertunity for all and take responsibility for themselves. People choose Barackaclaus.